Danny

iTrader: (16)

Well, I just got off the phone with the paint store. He explained to me that they use a different bonding agent in the paint that doesn't require a hardener and needs to be reduced 1:1

But he agreed to replace the wasted materials so that's somewhat of a relief. When I get home tonight I'm going to check how much more material I'll need and give it to him. The only thing left to take care of is sanding the damaged paint off. The hardest part is going to be the engine bay BUT the guy @ Sherwin Williams said to use paint striper and that'll be a lot easier. So maybe I'll go that route instead. Because sanding the damaged paint off the spoiler took me hrs and hrs using 220 wet sand paper.

I'll keep you guys updated on the final results.

mcalus

iTrader: (14)

Glad you found out the issue. I have never sprayed Sherwin williams, all ppg's and basf's bases have never required hardner (to my knowledge).

Danny

iTrader: (16)

Thanks man. I would've preferred PPG but I never asked the brand of the paint. Now I know for next time. It's a learning curve, just like everything else.

98camarols1

iTrader: (1)

glad you found the solution.now paint her up and post some pics.lol.but its weird how they want you to use harder.i use dimensions all the time and i just reduce 2:1 and it works like it should.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

You know what, maybe it didn't require hardener. Remember, the last time I painted the spoiler I added the hardener and reduced it 2:1 instead of 1:1 like they told me. So it could've been both of them or either one that corrected the problem. Either way, when I paint the car I'm going to add the hardener and reduce it 2:1. The last thing I want is for the paint to go bad again. Because if it does I'll be looking for a cliff to jump off of....lol.

Yesterday I went ahead and sprayed some paint remover that I got from Sherwin Williams. It works pretty good. The clear came right off. I think it needs another coat and it'll be set. I hope I can shoot some paint this wknd.

ctjohns

iTrader: (10)

be carefukl with paint remover, if not all removed and nuetralized, it will lift the new paint! Watch the nooks and crannies!

Danny

iTrader: (16)

Ya I know what you mean. I'm pretty much done stripping all the paint off the engine bay and the driver side door jam. As soon as I'm done with the psgr side I'm going to wash everything down with a 3M scuffing pad and some Dawn detergant soap. Then I'll sand it all down smooth with 320 and wash it once more with soap and let it dry for a few days before I apply the adhesive promotor and primer. I'm not going to use paint stipper on the 1/4 panels since it has a tendency of getting into the filler and lifting it. So I'm just going to take a DA sander to it and then reblock it.

Here's a updated pic of the stripped engine bay and LH door jam.




As for the paint supplies...
The good news is the paint store replaced all the wasted supplies free of charge.

The bad news is that they're now telling me that the paint was made with the "correct" binder this time and I can go ahead and reduce it 1:1 and do not add hardener, just like they originally told me the first time. I asked if they can just mix it like the way they did the first batch since I already know how to work with it, but they said no. They said they had already sent back the old binder to the manufacture. So now I'm worried about this happening all over again if I use the mixing ratio they're giving me.

Questions....
1. What would happen if I reduce it 2:1 and add hardener instead of 1:1 and no hardener???

ardavis78

iTrader: (18)

Dan, this really pisses me off when I hear of so-called "paint stores" selling people auto paint and have no clue what they are doing...I've sold DuPont paint for a living at a local parts store for 17 years and have been spraying for 20...If I ever have a question of any kind, I don't hesitate to call the tech line or my rep...These asshat pukes behind the counter of your local store obviously don't know how to hold a spray gun or they would understand how big of a ****-off it is when you have a huuuuge issue like you did...I think you are being VERY kind in just asking for a reimbursement and not taking their dumb asses to small claims...Give me a call in NW Ohio on the next one...I'll fix you up...I think your car will look great!!...Best of luck!!!

Danny

iTrader: (16)

Thanks man. I appreciate that. Supposedly these guys at the paint store have been painting for over 20yrs. They said a "bad binder" was the root of the problem and they have since returned it to the vendor, who which is total dick to say the least. I've tried getting in touch with him myself and everytime I got a hold of him he would always say the same thing..."i'm in a meeting right now. Can I call you back in 30mins".

Small claims court sounds like a good idea but I just don't have time right now, especially with my new born son. Plus I would've had to wait for that whole process to go through before I could finish my car. If it wasn't for that, I would've been take them to court and filed a complaint with the BBB.

Any idea on what would happen if I reduced the paint 2:1 instead of 1:1 and add the 3% hardener???

v7guy

iTrader: (1)

After going through all of this I'd spray a test piece to make sure it all works like it should. It'll hold you back from doing the car for another day or two, but it could save you the time stripping it down again if it goes wrong.
I'd also check with the manufacturer again and see what they say in relation to what you were told. Hell, even if they tell you the same thing I'd spray a test panel.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

Ya, you're right. I just got off the phone with my local Sherwin Williams distributor and he said it's really hard to say for sure what will happen. Especially since he doesn't know what "binder" was used to make the paint. He said the paint store just buys some of the chemicals and they make it themselves so they have no control over what they use for the final product.

I guess I'll sand down the spoiler for the 3rd time and test the new paint. It's better than having to strip the entire car again if it goes wrong.

Thanks to all the guys here who helped out. I'll be sure and post pics of the car once it's all done. I'm thinking I'll spray the engine bay, all the jambs and rocker panels one wknd and spray the rest of the car the next wknd.

98camarols1

iTrader: (1)

whts your paint/color code.i want to look something up on the Sherwin Williams website.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

It's K12. Liquid Metal Metallic.

98camarols1

iTrader: (1)

ok found couple of things.first i looked at the Dimension Basecoat Product Data Sheets.and it says mixing ratio is 2:1.not 1:1..and this is the reducers for it:
Reducer Selection Chart
DR631 50°-60°F
DR632 60°-70°F
DR633 70°-80°F
DR634 80°-100°F
DR635 100°F and above
which reducer are you using?
doesn't say anything abt adding hardener to it.i don't understand why they want u to add hardener.like mentioned above do a test panel first.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

Are you sure you're looking at the correct data sheet. This one says it requires 3% hardener...
http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/me...ish/W10454.pdf

Also, this data sheet applies to the basecoat the way that Sherwin Williams mixes it. Since the paint shop uses a different "binder" which have different requirements this data sheet no longer applies. According to the guy at Sherwin Williams the way the paint is mixed at the paint shop it may already have the hardener in it and when you add the reducer it activates the hardener. Of course, this is just an assumption.

98camarols1

iTrader: (1)

tht data sheet is for DIMENSIONŽ
3.5 VOC BASECOAT
3B INTERMIX PREFIX.
is tht wht u using?.becuse i saw 5B - 4th Dimension B/C gallon in your previous pictures.so i though u were using tht.but if your using the 3.5 voc basecoat then tht is the right mixing ratio.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

The picture is kinda hazy but it says 3B 3.5 VOC.

What would happen if instead of reducing the paint 1:1 like the paint shop said, I reduce it 2:1 and add the hardener? I would imagine the paint will just be heavier? Or does the reducer help dry the paint?

98camarols1

iTrader: (1)

well to avoid all the trouble i would just go by the Product Data Sheet.and Reducer helps evaporate paint, leading to quicker drying.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

That's what I want to do but what worries me is that the guy at the paint shop said that they used the correct "binder" this time and this one does require the paint to be mixed 1:1 and no hardener. If this is true and I go ahead and reduce the paint 2:1 and add the hardener, will something happen to the basecoat? If nothing will happen then I rather go with the Sherwin Williams directions.

Now remember, the data sheet that Sherwin Williams posted is based on the basecoat the way that Sherwin Williams mixes it, with their binders and all. Since my basecoat is made with different binders then this data sheet no longer applies...at least that's what the Sherwin Williams rep told me...which makes sense.

Body work sucks. Now I remember why I prefer mechanic work or body work anyday.

TyCZ28

i still dont realize why the paint store didnt use the Sherwin Williams binder... they are morons for mix and matching stuff...