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Bubbling Sail Panel Issue for Dummies
#122
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im gonna scan the pages i got of the updated bulletin and post up here. Its mostly the same info, but it does clearly state 2003. It wouldnt make sense for GM to release a 2003 bulletin regarding 1999 cars, if they only have a 3 year warranty and then turn down the repairs. Otherwise it would just concern 2002 vehicles.
#123
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here are the pics of my CE's bubble-itis afflicted areas
In this pic you can see the other bubbles under the paint that just cause a wavy-ness under the paint. These minute bubble go around the entire perimiter of the roof pillar. Everything just popped up(no pun intended) this past weekend. I cleaned the car friday and nothing. I detailed it a bit more saturday and BANG, there they were. It has been REALLY hot here lately and the body shop manager said that is probably what kicked it into high gear.
In this pic you can see the other bubbles under the paint that just cause a wavy-ness under the paint. These minute bubble go around the entire perimiter of the roof pillar. Everything just popped up(no pun intended) this past weekend. I cleaned the car friday and nothing. I detailed it a bit more saturday and BANG, there they were. It has been REALLY hot here lately and the body shop manager said that is probably what kicked it into high gear.
#124
There seems to be some confusion here. A TSB is not a recall. A recall usually relates to something safety related and is free to have fixed. A TSB doesn't create a warranty or extend a warranty. It is simply the procedure for service managers to fix recurring problems. That's why it lists 99 model cars in 2003 because those are the model years affected by the problem, and not that those are the years that they will fix it free. The service manager needs to know how to fix a 99 if it comes in the same as if a 02 under warranty comes in.
Actually, Edmunds can say it better than I can: "These bulletins differ from recalls in that they are not considered safety or emissions issues and they usually apply only when your vehicle is in its warranty period (whereas a recall is "open" until the work has been performed). TSBs frequently (but not always) address a recurring problem and include illustrated instructions for repair, a list of the parts needed, the warranty status and the labor charge."
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/tir...5/article.html
Basically, it appears to be up to the district rep at this point, which is totally ridiculous. I would suggest that everyone make their own calls to GM customer service and the district reps rather than a dealership. A dealership really isn't going to argue for your interests, now is he? Everyone should have those numbers ready even before talking to the dealer, so if the dealer is a *****, you can call them right on the spot before the dealer can call them and those two decide how to handle it w/o your involvement.
Yeah, you're right that it doesn't hurt, but I've had all my service work done at the dealer since I bought it new and I've brought it up before to them. Right now there is no hint of any bubbles and there is nothing further to really inform them about. Either it's there now or it's not. But believe me, if they do pop up down the road, and they give me hassle about it, I will get it fixed free, if its the last thing I ever do. Nonsense like this really pisses me off.
Right now does anybody know if anybody took this problem to a dealer to have fixed in '01 or '02 while these cars were still being built. . .being built that is apparently with the wrong type of glue?
Actually, Edmunds can say it better than I can: "These bulletins differ from recalls in that they are not considered safety or emissions issues and they usually apply only when your vehicle is in its warranty period (whereas a recall is "open" until the work has been performed). TSBs frequently (but not always) address a recurring problem and include illustrated instructions for repair, a list of the parts needed, the warranty status and the labor charge."
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/tir...5/article.html
Basically, it appears to be up to the district rep at this point, which is totally ridiculous. I would suggest that everyone make their own calls to GM customer service and the district reps rather than a dealership. A dealership really isn't going to argue for your interests, now is he? Everyone should have those numbers ready even before talking to the dealer, so if the dealer is a *****, you can call them right on the spot before the dealer can call them and those two decide how to handle it w/o your involvement.
Originally Posted by JasonWW
Innocent Criminal, I would suggest you go to the dealer and have their Service Manager look at the bubbles and officially inform them of the problem BEFORE your warranty runs out. You have nothing to lose by doing this and maybe something to gain.
Right now does anybody know if anybody took this problem to a dealer to have fixed in '01 or '02 while these cars were still being built. . .being built that is apparently with the wrong type of glue?
#125
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Originally Posted by Innocent Criminal
Yeah, you're right that it doesn't hurt, but I've had all my service work done at the dealer since I bought it new and I've brought it up before to them. Right now there is no hint of any bubbles and there is nothing further to really inform them about.
#126
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GM releases a service bulletin in 03 regarding 99 vehicles which are ALL out of warranty, and basically saying "we messed up at the factory", heres a $2000 bill you need to pay to have your roof look decent. So unbelievable.
What has everyone been saying to customer service reps? And who can I email and what do i say. I dont want to just send off a fit of rage, I want facts and stats that I can shove in their face. For example, I want to tell them about the numerous people on here getting a fair treatment and getting it fixed. This is a HUGE fix. $2000 for a vehicle meticulously cared for. 6 years is NOT old for a car, so i shouldnt be doing MAJOR body work this early. Sorry this is just insane. Innocent Criminal, I understand how the service bulletins work, i just feel like some form of neglegence is present. We should be entitled to the fix for at least 6 years.
Did ANYONE know about this service bulletin when it was released in 03? and how many actually went to get the repairs?
What has everyone been saying to customer service reps? And who can I email and what do i say. I dont want to just send off a fit of rage, I want facts and stats that I can shove in their face. For example, I want to tell them about the numerous people on here getting a fair treatment and getting it fixed. This is a HUGE fix. $2000 for a vehicle meticulously cared for. 6 years is NOT old for a car, so i shouldnt be doing MAJOR body work this early. Sorry this is just insane. Innocent Criminal, I understand how the service bulletins work, i just feel like some form of neglegence is present. We should be entitled to the fix for at least 6 years.
Did ANYONE know about this service bulletin when it was released in 03? and how many actually went to get the repairs?
#127
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i'm not sure if this will make any difference, but I just tried taking it yesterday....and they told me that my district service rep, who is the only one who can authorize the work, denied me straight up saying that it is out of warranty.
I just found this, although its from 1993.....but honestly, if the service rep can't find anything newer stating otherwise...shouldn't he have to do that work?!
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=99&did=727
I just found this, although its from 1993.....but honestly, if the service rep can't find anything newer stating otherwise...shouldn't he have to do that work?!
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=99&did=727
#128
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Haans good find, kind of sums up the other autosafety report (page 1 of this thread) more clearly.
"TSB is just for the people who have problems under warranty". Spork, ask the customer service rep if TSBs are for warranty vehicles then why did GM issue one in 2003 concerning 1999 vehicles. Service bulletins and recalls ARE available to the public. She is clearly talking her way out with nonsense. Check out the autosafety reports and spit them back at her.
"TSB is just for the people who have problems under warranty". Spork, ask the customer service rep if TSBs are for warranty vehicles then why did GM issue one in 2003 concerning 1999 vehicles. Service bulletins and recalls ARE available to the public. She is clearly talking her way out with nonsense. Check out the autosafety reports and spit them back at her.
#129
Originally Posted by SporkLover
"Paint defects are typically noticed and taken care of before delivery of vehicle"...."TSB's are not for customers to look at"
The 93 statement is great. Use it. It doesn't have any expiration date, but I would research the circumstances that caused it first just so you know and can argue why it should apply here. I think it had something to do with acid rain or something or GM using questionable paint, or litigation, I don't remember.
In the meantime, I beg everybody who has gotten hosed to email or contact 60 Minutes, Dateline and 20/20 or who ever you want with a short story and pics. They love this stuff, and short of litigation, it may be one way to get a global remedy. This is not something anyone buying a car anticipates happening later through no fault of their own, like the alternator bearings wearing out for example. Make GM look like a fool.
#130
Actually, you should also contact whichever government agency oversees vehicle safety. Is it the national highway safety admin? Anybody know? Send them some pics and say you are worried that the glue has weakened your roof. Maybe the glue weakens over time and this is actually a safety issue which would require a recall.
#131
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Maybe the glue weakens over time and this is actually a safety issue which would require a recall.
#132
Excellent idea about a separate damage thread. An entire website would be better though: fbodyroofbubbles.com. lol How about it tech boys?
GM has nothing to argue. Reporter/lawyer: So why is it when a customer comes in with bubbles in his roof paint that you just don't repaint it but instead advise your service managers to remove the entire roof and then use a different glue? Doesn't this evidence a manufacturing defect under the paint instead of a simple paint problem? GM: well, um, uh. Can I have a cigerette break?
They just prey on the fact that no one victim has the resources to prove this with experts, etc. There is strength in numbers though, and the government and media can be a tremendous help.
GM has nothing to argue. Reporter/lawyer: So why is it when a customer comes in with bubbles in his roof paint that you just don't repaint it but instead advise your service managers to remove the entire roof and then use a different glue? Doesn't this evidence a manufacturing defect under the paint instead of a simple paint problem? GM: well, um, uh. Can I have a cigerette break?
They just prey on the fact that no one victim has the resources to prove this with experts, etc. There is strength in numbers though, and the government and media can be a tremendous help.
#133
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Hey guys, go back to the CAS website, and then submit a complaint about this, and at the end, check that you want to join a class action law suit. I'm sure if we get enough people to do this, we'll jump start something.
http://www.autosafety.org/fileacomplaint.php
Thanks!
Haans
http://www.autosafety.org/fileacomplaint.php
Thanks!
Haans
#135
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Originally Posted by Haans249
Hey guys, go back to the CAS website, and then submit a complaint about this, and at the end, check that you want to join a class action law suit. I'm sure if we get enough people to do this, we'll jump start something.
http://www.autosafety.org/fileacomplaint.php
Thanks!
Haans
http://www.autosafety.org/fileacomplaint.php
Thanks!
Haans
lets all get together on this and do it right..yeah!
#138
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I took my car down to my local dealer and he said that my warrenty is up so they won't do it for free, but i know him, so he said he might be able to do something about the price. Is there any way i can get it done for free like a lot of other people have. I have a 2000 Camaro Z28 w/ 88000mi
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Took mine to the dealer yesterday,an the service mgr said the usual that my warranty had expired but he would get in touch with GM an see what they say.
Called him today an he said he has nothing heard nothing yet so i don't know what is going to happen.
My car is five years old an has 52xxxx miles.
Called him today an he said he has nothing heard nothing yet so i don't know what is going to happen.
My car is five years old an has 52xxxx miles.
#140
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Originally Posted by 00T\A
Took mine to the dealer yesterday,an the service mgr said the usual that my warranty had expired but he would get in touch with GM an see what they say.
Called him today an he said he has nothing heard nothing yet so i don't know what is going to happen.
My car is five years old an has 52xxxx miles.
Called him today an he said he has nothing heard nothing yet so i don't know what is going to happen.
My car is five years old an has 52xxxx miles.
Anyway, if somebody figures out a loophole to getting these things fixed at GM's cost, please post it!!