So who's the LS1 GOD?
12-30-2009, 05:17 PM
#61
I believe that, if the industry were more organized, none of this would happen.
There will always be that guy answering emails at 3 in the morning because he wants to keep every post on the internet about him a positive one. It leads to burnout on the job, soon a search for a new way to feed the family and the performance community has lost another person who was great at what they did. Once all of the great ones are gone, only the bottom feeders will be left, stealing from people and hacking up cars because they don't care for anything but making a buck.
The guy doing things successfully at home, on the side, sees this and decides to quit the day job and make a go of the performance thing full time. He builds up an amazing reputation, always doing the right thing and rises quickly to the top, where he is promptly deluged with calls and emails and tire kickers trying to glean free knowledge until he snaps and heads out to see if he can get his old job back again or failing that, steal as much as possible and make a run for the border.
This is the market we are in right now, straight up, pure and simple.
If you needed a meaningful license to work on cars and modify them, much like a plumber or electrician does, then these shenanigans would grind to a halt real quick. Sure, there would still be those guys doing things unlicensed, but, they would automatically be the dumb *** when it blew up in their face. Like when your house burns down due to faulty wiring and the fire marshall finds out you had your brother in law (who watched Bob Vila do it as his only qualification) rewire the house 3 months ago. No licensed electrician would dream of giving your brother in law advice on how to do it either, since he would then be attached to that huge liability and risk losing his license...
There will always be that guy answering emails at 3 in the morning because he wants to keep every post on the internet about him a positive one. It leads to burnout on the job, soon a search for a new way to feed the family and the performance community has lost another person who was great at what they did. Once all of the great ones are gone, only the bottom feeders will be left, stealing from people and hacking up cars because they don't care for anything but making a buck.
The guy doing things successfully at home, on the side, sees this and decides to quit the day job and make a go of the performance thing full time. He builds up an amazing reputation, always doing the right thing and rises quickly to the top, where he is promptly deluged with calls and emails and tire kickers trying to glean free knowledge until he snaps and heads out to see if he can get his old job back again or failing that, steal as much as possible and make a run for the border.
This is the market we are in right now, straight up, pure and simple.
If you needed a meaningful license to work on cars and modify them, much like a plumber or electrician does, then these shenanigans would grind to a halt real quick. Sure, there would still be those guys doing things unlicensed, but, they would automatically be the dumb *** when it blew up in their face. Like when your house burns down due to faulty wiring and the fire marshall finds out you had your brother in law (who watched Bob Vila do it as his only qualification) rewire the house 3 months ago. No licensed electrician would dream of giving your brother in law advice on how to do it either, since he would then be attached to that huge liability and risk losing his license...
12-30-2009, 10:01 PM
#62
11 Second Club
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn this thread got deep. I've only directly asked one sponsor a question through pm and he answered it with no problem, though I wouldn't have held it agianst him if he ignored it. It's one thing if you have an odd question that you can't find through searching or posting here, but to blindly call sponsors to ask questions that have been answered here a million times is ridiculous. Everything else I've learned was through searching this site and the HPT forum.
That last page should be stickied
That last page should be stickied
Last edited by NSSANE02; 12-30-2009 at 10:13 PM.
12-30-2009, 10:12 PM
#63
Bluecat...if you in or Near Eastern KY, South Western WVA, VA or southern OH, he is your man.
Last edited by Patrick G; 12-31-2009 at 07:19 AM. Reason: non-sponsor contact info removed. Admin.
12-30-2009, 10:49 PM
#64
As it has been pointed out. A good tuner will get your car to drive "normally". I say that in quotations because unless you're running stock everything, you can't expect to be the exact same. Very close, but never the same.
12-30-2009, 11:36 PM
#65
Chuck anders I would pick the guy that has set the most of the LS world records and give drivablity number one. Chuck Anders
WORLD RECORD FOR HEADS AND CAM TUNE. And most HP out of a stock Bottom end car... the list goes on...
Easy choice!
WORLD RECORD FOR HEADS AND CAM TUNE. And most HP out of a stock Bottom end car... the list goes on...
Easy choice!
Last edited by Patrick G; 12-31-2009 at 07:16 AM. Reason: non-sponsor link removed by Admin
12-31-2009, 04:35 AM
#66
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very well put Ron! I would be willing to bet you just made some new sales. You can't be so high on the throne to stop talking to people about their car. It's that personal touch with getting to know someone and what they're looking at with their setup versus what you have to offer. Most of the time it's not people calling you that know exactly what cam/heads/etc...that they want. It's people with a budget in mind and a direction they want to go with the car from mild to wild. Granted sometimes you don't end up with the sale, but lots of times you will if you're personable.
When I worked at TEA there were a lot of tirekickers, but then again there were a lot of people that called only wanting to order a cam and ended up purchasing the cam, heads, headers, converter, and intake. It's a catch 22 and you guys are right sometimes it's really hard when it's a small shop that the big name guys are the people doing the tuning, install, and sales work all combined. The shops over the years that have made their name started small and have grown into what they are today.
As far as tuning goes, there are many people out there who tune. When you take a car to be tuned that has been tuned by someone else. That person will pick apart the other guy's tune. Tuning varies as much as the setup components. The bottom line is to find someone who you can talk to and that cares about your goals and what you want to accomplish because in the end you're the one who has to be happy with it. I've seen some gigantic cams 240ish duration @.050" on 346 cube motors idle great because the tuner wanted to spend countless hours getting it perfect; on the flip side I've seen 224 cams idle like 240ish cams because of the tune. Like I said find someone you're comfortable with and someone that's willing to spend some time talking to you about your individual setup and goals you have before making your choice.
To all the guys that have your name in this thread, be glad that people have chosen your name because of something you've done for them. The biggest advertisement ever is word of mouth. If you treat people right it will do more advertising than you could ever pay for.
When I worked at TEA there were a lot of tirekickers, but then again there were a lot of people that called only wanting to order a cam and ended up purchasing the cam, heads, headers, converter, and intake. It's a catch 22 and you guys are right sometimes it's really hard when it's a small shop that the big name guys are the people doing the tuning, install, and sales work all combined. The shops over the years that have made their name started small and have grown into what they are today.
As far as tuning goes, there are many people out there who tune. When you take a car to be tuned that has been tuned by someone else. That person will pick apart the other guy's tune. Tuning varies as much as the setup components. The bottom line is to find someone who you can talk to and that cares about your goals and what you want to accomplish because in the end you're the one who has to be happy with it. I've seen some gigantic cams 240ish duration @.050" on 346 cube motors idle great because the tuner wanted to spend countless hours getting it perfect; on the flip side I've seen 224 cams idle like 240ish cams because of the tune. Like I said find someone you're comfortable with and someone that's willing to spend some time talking to you about your individual setup and goals you have before making your choice.
To all the guys that have your name in this thread, be glad that people have chosen your name because of something you've done for them. The biggest advertisement ever is word of mouth. If you treat people right it will do more advertising than you could ever pay for.
. I have a small cam(Check Sig) and the car stalled twice in his parking lot. The tuner told me that the car would learn it self out and I just had to drive it. Keep in mind I live 6 hours away and had to go back that day. After driving it home the car issues never got fixed and stalled at almost every light and stop sign.
After talking to Ron at Vengeance he hooked me up with Mike and a good deal on a mail order tune and could not be happier. I would say his tune is about 90-95% on and he has never seen my car. Needless to say Vengeance will be getting my buisness in the future.
12-31-2009, 04:50 AM
#67
I took my car to a reputable shop and asked them to tune it. I'm a curious guy so I stuck around to see what they did and how they did it. I was pretty surprised. They dynoed it took the data and sent it via email to someone else and they tweaked it sent it back and it was loaded into my car. I'm very happy with the results but I was surprised about how they did it. I guess they specialize in one part and leave the tuning to someone else. I never got the name of the guy that did it but damn he was quick and good. Not a single hiccup or complaint from me.
12-31-2009, 05:06 AM
#68
^^^ 
That's a good one. I'll start selling tuning services then and be a tuning deciple
Mail order with a store front. Anyone can drive the car and download data, that's what HP and EFIlive are all about. I usually just send them to a mail order person or local mustang dyno tuner if they are close to me.
That's a good one. I'll start selling tuning services then and be a tuning decipleMail order with a store front. Anyone can drive the car and download data, that's what HP and EFIlive are all about. I usually just send them to a mail order person or local mustang dyno tuner if they are close to me.
12-31-2009, 05:11 AM
#69
^^^ That's a good one. I'll start selling tuning services then and be a tuning deciple
Mail order with a store front. Anyone can drive the car and download data, that's what HP and EFIlive are all about. I usually just send them to a mail order person or local mustang dyno tuner if they are close to me.
That's a good one. I'll start selling tuning services then and be a tuning decipleMail order with a store front. Anyone can drive the car and download data, that's what HP and EFIlive are all about. I usually just send them to a mail order person or local mustang dyno tuner if they are close to me.
12-31-2009, 05:52 AM
#71
12 Second Club
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your question is somewhat like asking "What is the best way to get to 11 seconds." There are a million ways to do it, it all depends on how you want to go about it. (Do you wanna focus on budget? power? durability? driveability?)
There is no "god" tuner. There are masters of the craft, most of them on this board. A plus about being a member of this board is that you have access to many tuners and most of them spend their personal time on the board because they are car fanatics like you and I. Their not on here just to make a sale. You can find their customers and talk to them about their experience and their application hence the reason bad tuners don't last long on here.
My personal experience has been with Doc of EFI Alchemy in Jacksonville. One of the most stand up guys in the business and has a ton of experience to boot. I went up there Wednesday to talk about what to do to the car and get some basic work done. He had a 700 RWHP supercharged Silverado luxury truck on the dyno but had a stock family Suburban the had been submerged in water that he had to get running. He takes all kinds. He built me a 2000 Z28 that had the usual bolt-ons, stall and gears that ran 12.39 in hot air. 'Nuff said.
You can't go wrong with a little research. Find a sponsor that tunes near you, look him up in the sponsor feedback section.
There is no "god" tuner. There are masters of the craft, most of them on this board. A plus about being a member of this board is that you have access to many tuners and most of them spend their personal time on the board because they are car fanatics like you and I. Their not on here just to make a sale. You can find their customers and talk to them about their experience and their application hence the reason bad tuners don't last long on here.
My personal experience has been with Doc of EFI Alchemy in Jacksonville. One of the most stand up guys in the business and has a ton of experience to boot. I went up there Wednesday to talk about what to do to the car and get some basic work done. He had a 700 RWHP supercharged Silverado luxury truck on the dyno but had a stock family Suburban the had been submerged in water that he had to get running. He takes all kinds. He built me a 2000 Z28 that had the usual bolt-ons, stall and gears that ran 12.39 in hot air. 'Nuff said.
You can't go wrong with a little research. Find a sponsor that tunes near you, look him up in the sponsor feedback section.
12-31-2009, 09:47 AM
#73
No need to apologize for your rant...you're one of the more highly regarded tuners, and I am sure you do get inundated with those PM's...and for guys like you I feel bad...hell...every time I post up something somewhat technical, I get inundated by PM's...it drives me crazy too and it only happens once in a while when I post something technical, and it fades away quickly. I also remember when that troll went nuts about you not taking his PCM in for free...the "LS1 community"...I dislike that, and any other "insert car or engine here community"...thats all BS that lazy people say to try to get things for free.
The last thing I intended to do with my post was say there aren't guys like you out there...my point was...the guys like you who ARE giving it that much attention, are few and far between, and probably dealing with quite a bit of undue stress from it.
I also agree...9 times out of 10, using more tools is NOT necessary, and once you have the few base files made with the 80 and 60 segment swaps, or fuel gauge segment swaps and what have you...you're right, you really don't ever need to again, license the customers PCM, flash in the file you want to work with, keep their VIN in the PCM, and tune the car...no big deal.
Again, the last thing I wanted to do was upset you or give you any grief, I hope you don't feel like I did, and I'm sorry if thats how I came across.
The last thing I intended to do with my post was say there aren't guys like you out there...my point was...the guys like you who ARE giving it that much attention, are few and far between, and probably dealing with quite a bit of undue stress from it.
I also agree...9 times out of 10, using more tools is NOT necessary, and once you have the few base files made with the 80 and 60 segment swaps, or fuel gauge segment swaps and what have you...you're right, you really don't ever need to again, license the customers PCM, flash in the file you want to work with, keep their VIN in the PCM, and tune the car...no big deal.
Again, the last thing I wanted to do was upset you or give you any grief, I hope you don't feel like I did, and I'm sorry if thats how I came across.
12-31-2009, 11:12 AM
#75
Everyone always wants alot for nothing. They just don't understand the concept of a business I guess!! I would love to learn how to tune, without F'n up my newly built motor. I have HPT yet it confuses the **** out of me, and I'm scared to touch something afraid I'll blow it up lol. Yet I would never PM or call someone and ask how to do what they do. People today are a bunch of dumbasses I guess.
12-31-2009, 11:59 AM
#76
I think it's funny...I've had OBD1 Tunercat for YEARS now...and I ask John at TC to make changes for me to the OBD1 LT1 Flash "definition file" once in a while...a little while back I sent him an e-mail saying thank you for the help, and asking if I could pay him for the software again even though I have a license...oh well...some people just want it all.
12-31-2009, 02:11 PM
#78
In the D/FW area Tayler @ Dallas Performance is very good as well.
As for the comment about calling a shop that sells tunes received by e-mail a "mail order tune" is not a fair statement. There's a huge difference between a mail order tune and a remote tuner. The difference being the remote tuned car has been scanned and the tuner has concrete measurement data to work with. So what if that data has to be sent by e-mail to the tuner, and the new tune sent back electronically?
Hell, I remote tune my own car all the time. Sometimes I do a bunch of scans one day and save them to a flash drive. Take them with me to work and make the next tune on my lunch break.
01-04-2010, 04:08 PM
#79
On The Tree
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Deep In The South, Coral Gables.FL
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If your down in the south, JEREMY FORMATO....
( jeremyf ) on this site...I've seen what he could do...
He was featured on GM HIGH-TECH performance mag, tuning the 10 camaro...
( jeremyf ) on this site...I've seen what he could do...
He was featured on GM HIGH-TECH performance mag, tuning the 10 camaro...
01-04-2010, 05:58 PM
#80
Staging Lane
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Boston, TAXachusetts
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have seen junk from too many big dollar tuners.
That is part of the evolution. I saw a tune by wait4me that he would never put out today, but it was done years ago.
Any big tuner using only HPT can't tune!
I don't tune with EFILive, but I use EFILive as a tool
I can Edit Calibrations on GM's factory level.
I can see some 10,000 different fields to change in some programs. These are not hidden as some people like to say.
I built a 4L80E GTO tune just to see if I could and it looks all stock.
The tuners that can see all of these and tune these are GODs. Now will they do that for you?
I can name just a handful of people that can do this and I don't include myself as one of them.
GTO test .bin
That is part of the evolution. I saw a tune by wait4me that he would never put out today, but it was done years ago.
Any big tuner using only HPT can't tune!
I don't tune with EFILive, but I use EFILive as a tool
I can Edit Calibrations on GM's factory level.
I can see some 10,000 different fields to change in some programs. These are not hidden as some people like to say.
I built a 4L80E GTO tune just to see if I could and it looks all stock.
The tuners that can see all of these and tune these are GODs. Now will they do that for you?
I can name just a handful of people that can do this and I don't include myself as one of them.
GTO test .bin
The only other guy that i know of that tunes on GM's factory level is jason haynes from LPE... That guy is one hell of a tuner... Id put him up againsed any tuner in the LS1 world period... WHY u ask? cause he can tune on GM's level....