anything peculiar here? comparing my tune vs stock and a bit puzzled
06-01-2011, 01:20 AM
#1
anything peculiar here? comparing my tune vs stock and a bit puzzled Car in question is a 6 speed swapped 2000 Trans Am with bolt ons (tune done originally/flashed to 6 spd tune and tweaked by shop that no longer exists and shall remain nameless) and since I have a high idle issue ever since that I believe is tune related, I bought HPtuners to start poking around
These things just popped out as a bit odd to my novice brain, is this normal or is something off?
1. target idle on stock m6 tune showed 0's across all P/N board whereas mine is all filled in as if it were automatic, also my idle is set at 550 once warm instead of 800 as in the stock m6 tune (seems like stock auto idle settings, but calibration details recognizes my car as 6 speed)
2. MAF frequency at one point dips down and then rises back up, I've read it should never do this since an increase in air should never cause a drop in frequency
3. Main spark advance for the most part has a few degrees pulled throughout most of the High Octane table in my tune vs the stock tune, whereas the low octane sections are identical apart from one value randomly being changed from 27 degrees to 12 degrees in my tune
4. M6 Spark smoothing is disabled on mine but enabled on stock
5. Throttle follower table is basically completely flipped on mine vs. the stock tune, it looks like it got flipped on a vertical axis basically
Screen Shot:
thanks!
These things just popped out as a bit odd to my novice brain, is this normal or is something off?
1. target idle on stock m6 tune showed 0's across all P/N board whereas mine is all filled in as if it were automatic, also my idle is set at 550 once warm instead of 800 as in the stock m6 tune (seems like stock auto idle settings, but calibration details recognizes my car as 6 speed)
2. MAF frequency at one point dips down and then rises back up, I've read it should never do this since an increase in air should never cause a drop in frequency
3. Main spark advance for the most part has a few degrees pulled throughout most of the High Octane table in my tune vs the stock tune, whereas the low octane sections are identical apart from one value randomly being changed from 27 degrees to 12 degrees in my tune
4. M6 Spark smoothing is disabled on mine but enabled on stock
5. Throttle follower table is basically completely flipped on mine vs. the stock tune, it looks like it got flipped on a vertical axis basically
Screen Shot:
thanks!
Last edited by therealcreeper; 06-01-2011 at 12:55 PM.
06-01-2011, 08:57 AM
#2
Car in question is a 6 speed swapped 2000 Trans Am with bolt ons (tune done originally/flashed to 6 spd tune and tweaked by shop that no longer exists and shall remain nameless) and since I have a high idle issue ever since that I believe is tune related, I bought HPtuners to start poking around
These things just popped out as a bit odd to my novice brain, is this normal or is something off?
1. target idle on stock m6 tune showed 0's across all P/N board whereas mine is all filled in as if it were automatic, also my idle is set at 550 once warm instead of 800 as in the stock m6 tune (seems like stock auto idle settings, but calibration details recognizes my car as 6 speed)
2. MAF frequency at one point dips down and then rises back up, I've read it should never do this since an increase in air should never cause a drop in frequency
3. Main spark advance for the most part has a few degrees pulled throughout most of the High Octane table in my tune vs the stock tune, whereas the low octane sections are identical apart from one value randomly being changed from 27 degrees to 12 degrees in my tune
4. M6 Spark smoothing is disabled on mine but enabled on stock
5. Throttle follower table is basically completely flipped on mine vs. the stock tune, it looks like it got flipped on a vertical axis basically
thanks!
These things just popped out as a bit odd to my novice brain, is this normal or is something off?
1. target idle on stock m6 tune showed 0's across all P/N board whereas mine is all filled in as if it were automatic, also my idle is set at 550 once warm instead of 800 as in the stock m6 tune (seems like stock auto idle settings, but calibration details recognizes my car as 6 speed)
2. MAF frequency at one point dips down and then rises back up, I've read it should never do this since an increase in air should never cause a drop in frequency
3. Main spark advance for the most part has a few degrees pulled throughout most of the High Octane table in my tune vs the stock tune, whereas the low octane sections are identical apart from one value randomly being changed from 27 degrees to 12 degrees in my tune
4. M6 Spark smoothing is disabled on mine but enabled on stock
5. Throttle follower table is basically completely flipped on mine vs. the stock tune, it looks like it got flipped on a vertical axis basically
thanks!
2. Sounds like to me you are on to something here. What I have seen shops do is instead of tuning the VE tables, injector tables, and several other tables to make the fueling right they just modify the MAF table and or the PE table to make the fueling come out right. This I think was the original way of doing things. But now that time has passed and most have learned how everything relates to the other, not many do this meathod any more.
3. I dont know why they did this unless they saw knock and instead of tuning the fueling correctly (the way it is done today) they just pulled timing, or maybe they pulled timing to make the AFR were they wanted it too.
4. Don't know why they did this.
5. HMMM.
All in all sounds like they were novice or they learned some tricks in the begining and never progressed from there. Some people only learn what they are taught and never go out on theeir own and learn more to it.
Don't worry, now that you have the tuning software you can learn it and eventually you will have it tuned perfectly for your combo.
Good luck, its a long road but alot of fun to do.
06-01-2011, 09:05 AM
#3
Think about this, if a shop charges say 70 or 100 bucks an hour labor to do mechanical work, how can they make any profit tunning cars an only charge 400 or 500 bucks? They really can not afford to spend 100hrs on it, not that it always takes that long, but to do everything it can. You basicly get 3 to 4 hours of time. There is onl so much one person can do in that time frame. Any more time and they are loosing money. It is not that they don't know what they are doing but instead they can only do so much before your time is up. Most of us will not pay 50 bucks an hour until the car is completely tuned 100% because of the large amount of time to do this. The thing you hope for and look for is someone who has tunned thousounds of cars and might have a car in thier inventory that is very comparable to yours, one that they have tuned several times and have had the time needed to work that tune out.
That is my 2 cents, its not that they are bad tuners, its just a non profit making situation to tune a heavily modified car 100% for 500 bucks, it takes a long time to work everything out.
That is my 2 cents, its not that they are bad tuners, its just a non profit making situation to tune a heavily modified car 100% for 500 bucks, it takes a long time to work everything out.
06-01-2011, 10:01 AM
#4
I see what you mean, the shop usually charged more but I got mine done during a sale for $150, and the car made great power for my mods. 100k mile A4 car with full exhaust and put down 340/355 uncorrected on a dynojet. anyone local to me who reads this will probably figure out who it was that did the tuning, and all business aside which I won't get into he is known to be a good tuner and now works for another very reputable shop.
I think something was messed up when they did the 6 speed flash. they put a stock tune on it so I went back to have them tune out the emissions codes again, and asked to have whatever a/f, spark, etc tuning put back on it if possible but never got a straight answer as to what they ended up doing. as I drove away I got a knock sensor code so I turned around and he tried "desensitizing it" so this may have been when he started pulling timing.
also I notice the power enrich fuel multiplier is changed to 1.150 instead of 1.250, does this lean it out? haven't really read up on the fuel parameters much yet but I thought I'd ask
thanks for the response and taking the time to read through it all, I saved the tune that's on there and may try flashing it to a stock tune today to see how it runs just for comparison. I'm completely new at this so I'm trying not to ask too many stupid questions but it's a lot of info to learn on my own.
I think something was messed up when they did the 6 speed flash. they put a stock tune on it so I went back to have them tune out the emissions codes again, and asked to have whatever a/f, spark, etc tuning put back on it if possible but never got a straight answer as to what they ended up doing. as I drove away I got a knock sensor code so I turned around and he tried "desensitizing it" so this may have been when he started pulling timing.
also I notice the power enrich fuel multiplier is changed to 1.150 instead of 1.250, does this lean it out? haven't really read up on the fuel parameters much yet but I thought I'd ask
thanks for the response and taking the time to read through it all, I saved the tune that's on there and may try flashing it to a stock tune today to see how it runs just for comparison. I'm completely new at this so I'm trying not to ask too many stupid questions but it's a lot of info to learn on my own.
Last edited by therealcreeper; 06-01-2011 at 10:22 AM.
06-01-2011, 10:51 AM
#5
Yes, a value of 1 is the stoich AFR of basically 14.7:1 for gasoline. So you divide 14.7 by what ever number you have in there and that is now the target AFR. 14.7/1.25=11.76 14.7/1.15=12.782606 or 12.8:1 AFR. 14.7/1=14.7
That is a normal thing to do there.
That is a normal thing to do there.
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06-01-2011, 11:28 PM
#8
added a screen shot just for anyone who views this in the future or has additional input
and as an update I did some comparing between a stock 2000 m6 tune, my tune, and a stock a4 tune and the throttle follower tables are set up for an auto just like the idle tables so I guess I have some kind of hyprid tune going right now
and as an update I did some comparing between a stock 2000 m6 tune, my tune, and a stock a4 tune and the throttle follower tables are set up for an auto just like the idle tables so I guess I have some kind of hyprid tune going right now
Last edited by therealcreeper; 06-01-2011 at 11:41 PM.