Another $500 Dyno Tune....
11-13-2011, 11:51 AM
#1
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Another $500 Dyno Tune.... This is a dyno tune from a reputable shop/tuner here in Maryland, one that specializes in tuning Magnuson equipped LS motors ironically enough. This is on a 2004 CTS-V with an LS6, Maggie, LT headers, and cat back exhaust. I started looking at the tune b/c at lower speeds on tip in it felt like a motor mount was broken even with solid mounts already installed.
Long story short, MAF and VE tables are stock (yes, completely stock) PE tables have been raped, O2 sensor rich/lean vs. airflow has been changed, injector flow rate changed but nothing else. Oh, and EVERY O2 sensor DTC for rich, lean, X-counts, slow response, etc have been disabled along with opening up the DTC parameters for the TPS calculated airflow and MAF airflow error. The latter I think is a real slap in the face, you know the MAF and VE tables are wrong so you open up the DTC parameters so a code doesn't set. Total garbage.
All courtesy of John B. of Behe Performance. http://beheperformance.com/
Long story short, MAF and VE tables are stock (yes, completely stock) PE tables have been raped, O2 sensor rich/lean vs. airflow has been changed, injector flow rate changed but nothing else. Oh, and EVERY O2 sensor DTC for rich, lean, X-counts, slow response, etc have been disabled along with opening up the DTC parameters for the TPS calculated airflow and MAF airflow error. The latter I think is a real slap in the face, you know the MAF and VE tables are wrong so you open up the DTC parameters so a code doesn't set. Total garbage.
All courtesy of John B. of Behe Performance. http://beheperformance.com/
11-13-2011, 02:25 PM
#2
dang...now that does suck.
Something similar happened to a friend of mine when he took his '07 Monte Carlo SS to a San Antonio, TX tuner. After about 10 min. on the highway, after the tune, the car started to overheat...turned out the tuner didn't know what he was doing and turned off the fans. $450 well spent...luckily he had his computer and loaded in his semi-stock tune before the engine melted.
Something similar happened to a friend of mine when he took his '07 Monte Carlo SS to a San Antonio, TX tuner. After about 10 min. on the highway, after the tune, the car started to overheat...turned out the tuner didn't know what he was doing and turned off the fans. $450 well spent...luckily he had his computer and loaded in his semi-stock tune before the engine melted.
11-13-2011, 02:43 PM
#3
I paid $400 for a dyno tune...headers & cam GTO. The only thing changed was the timing was set to a ridiculous 28 degrees of advance at WOT, and the PE fueling was changed. Everything else was stock including the VE table with a 228/232 .612/.600 111 cam. I was told that "the computer needed to learn the tune", and it would get better. It didn't.
It was stalling when I'd come to a light and pushed in the clutch, and ran like ****, so I purchased HP Tuners and scanned it. Saw what little was changed, and that it was knocking like a son of a bitch.
That's why I've tuned my own car the last 70,000 miles. I purchased a wideband, and haven't looked back since.
This was from a performance shop in St. Louis.
It was stalling when I'd come to a light and pushed in the clutch, and ran like ****, so I purchased HP Tuners and scanned it. Saw what little was changed, and that it was knocking like a son of a bitch.
That's why I've tuned my own car the last 70,000 miles. I purchased a wideband, and haven't looked back since.
This was from a performance shop in St. Louis.
11-13-2011, 06:08 PM
#4
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I was in Iraq so it didn't get driven very much at all, luckily. I initially got HP Tuners for another project I am working on (TT 6.0 and 4L80E in a Grand National) and am glad I did. Also got the Greg Banish DVD's which made things really easy, I can get the MAF and VE tables tuned in no time at all.
You hear about this all the time but nobody ever seems to call out the offenders, which I think is BS. If someone does **** work, they should be called on it and run out of business.
You hear about this all the time but nobody ever seems to call out the offenders, which I think is BS. If someone does **** work, they should be called on it and run out of business.
11-13-2011, 06:36 PM
#5
I do, however, post everything about my car good or bad. Word got around, and come to find out I was not alone. I didn't have to trash his reputation...it already sucked. I just took the advice from the wrong guy on where to take it in the first place.
That guy who recommended him? Had the guy install a Procharger on his 06 GTO, and it popped #7 before he got 20 miles from the shop. He took it back and had it rebuilt...then mysteriously disappeared from the GTO forums and sold his car. My guess is that it blew too, and he was too embarrassed to tell anyone.
Far as I know the guy is still in business after all that...he even wrecked a Viper while tuning it...showing off.
Ain't the first time I've heard of crap like this...didn't Carolina Auto Mashers crash a Vette and still stay in business?
I'd say that **** PE tunes are more common than we want to think....and people just are too embarrassed to post about it.
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11-13-2011, 07:30 PM
#8
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I have seen numerous tunes from "professional" shops and tuners that were a complete mess... There are some really good ones out there, but there are some horrible ones too... You gotta do some homework and find the happy customers - the ones who are happy with thier driveability and whose cars run the numbers at the track (don't always believe the hype of dyno numbers)...
11-13-2011, 07:37 PM
#9
I have mixed feelings on that. I did not go out of my way to bash the guy that gave me the **** tune, mainly because I gave him ZERO chance to fix it. There were just too many warning signs going off that I could spend countless trips back up to St. Louis to have him fix it because he'd lost my trust by bullshitting me...well, and he also did not change the oil and filter on my car after the cam swap and kept it for himself.
I do, however, post everything about my car good or bad. Word got around, and come to find out I was not alone. I didn't have to trash his reputation...it already sucked. I just took the advice from the wrong guy on where to take it in the first place.
That guy who recommended him? Had the guy install a Procharger on his 06 GTO, and it popped #7 before he got 20 miles from the shop. He took it back and had it rebuilt...then mysteriously disappeared from the GTO forums and sold his car. My guess is that it blew too, and he was too embarrassed to tell anyone.
Far as I know the guy is still in business after all that...he even wrecked a Viper while tuning it...showing off.
Ain't the first time I've heard of crap like this...didn't Carolina Auto Mashers crash a Vette and still stay in business?
I'd say that **** PE tunes are more common than we want to think....and people just are too embarrassed to post about it.
I do, however, post everything about my car good or bad. Word got around, and come to find out I was not alone. I didn't have to trash his reputation...it already sucked. I just took the advice from the wrong guy on where to take it in the first place.
That guy who recommended him? Had the guy install a Procharger on his 06 GTO, and it popped #7 before he got 20 miles from the shop. He took it back and had it rebuilt...then mysteriously disappeared from the GTO forums and sold his car. My guess is that it blew too, and he was too embarrassed to tell anyone.
Far as I know the guy is still in business after all that...he even wrecked a Viper while tuning it...showing off.
Ain't the first time I've heard of crap like this...didn't Carolina Auto Mashers crash a Vette and still stay in business?
I'd say that **** PE tunes are more common than we want to think....and people just are too embarrassed to post about it.
11-13-2011, 08:18 PM
#10
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And I agree, it is best to get as much info on the tuner before hand. John B. has apparently tuned a lot of GTO's and I was actually referred to him by Lindsay Cadillac, who has sent problem cars to him in the past.
I really do not feel bad about bashing him without giving him a second chance to look at it, for Christ sake he went out of his way to cover his tracks by disabling every trouble code that could possibly be set. If I take it back to him, then what? He locks the VCM so I can't get in there again? To hell with that. I am already into the SOB for $500, I don't need to be $5k in the hole with a new long block, which is where this was heading especially with the stock 22* advance and a hot air Magnuson 112 forcing 8 lbs of boost. I am really lucky that everything is still together to be honest.
Frans96SS, I appreciate the offer and will give you a shout if needed.
11-13-2011, 08:40 PM
#11
So the the tuner you went to gave you a shitty tune, stole your oil change & you have mixed feelings about not exposing the POS? I wouldnt hesitate to expose the POS shop that does this, even though you didnt give them another look at it. Sounds like they dont have clue what theyre doing to ever get it right anyway.
I also point back to where I said that...oh ****...I didn't say it. I **** and moan about EVERYTHING if I get wronged, and had countless people ask me who it was, and I've never been shy about telling them. I just don't go around doing public service commercials or anything.
Just a couple months ago on facebook, a friend of mine asked (to a group) who to take the car to, and someone said to take it to PBJ. I said, take it anywhere BUT PBJ because he's the reason I tune my own car now. OMG...had some guy mother ******* me, screaming at me, telling me I don't know WTF I'm talking about. lol Yeah.......so I don't go around telling people my story with out them asking. Shoot me. ;-)
11-13-2011, 09:00 PM
#13
Beats the hell out of using a timing light and dwell meter.
11-13-2011, 10:47 PM
#16
And I agree, it is best to get as much info on the tuner before hand. John B. has apparently tuned a lot of GTO's and I was actually referred to him by Lindsay Cadillac, who has sent problem cars to him in the past.
Frans96SS, I appreciate the offer and will give you a shout if needed.
Frans96SS, I appreciate the offer and will give you a shout if needed.
Let me guess? Behe? hahaha tell him you have a set of 60# injectors you wanna throw in and have him tune. See what his response it.
11-14-2011, 12:25 AM
#17
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I had no idea that John B. at Behe had such a bad reputation in the industry, you can search all day long and nothing comes back. Granted, I guess that it's not really professional for another tuner/competitor to openly bash another outside of rare instances (Chuck Cow comes to mind), but it would be nice for the word to get around...which is the point of this whole thread I guess.
11-14-2011, 01:14 AM
#18
Before you condemn me, keep in mind this was four years ago, and I was new to modding game. Like I said before, I just trusted the wrong person, and didn't NEED to do much bashing. It turns out it is pretty common knowledge in the GTO community, at least on the GTO forum I frequented, to steer clear of him.
11-14-2011, 06:40 AM
#19
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Fran tuned my swap, and it ran awesome.... I just wish they were closer.... the 4hr drive for about an hrs worth of work, and 200 in gas..... I am trying out Frost in Richmond this time... 1.5hr drive.... DMM where in MD are you ?
