Tuning Necessary? Typhoon to FAST Intake
12-28-2011, 10:07 AM
#1
Tuning Necessary? Typhoon to FAST Intake Honestly, I'm ignorant when it comes to tuning. I've got a 2002 Z28 383 LS6 with a T56 magnum and I'm almost done swapping from a 96mm Typhoon intake with a 92mm FAST tb to a 102/102 FAST setup. The set-up was tuned for the Typhoon and the 92mm, and no other modifications have been performed. I'm told I need to have it tuned after I'm done.
I think I can understand why this would be the case, but is it ABSOLUTELY necessary? It's not an all-out car and I know I won't maximize any gains with the swap without tuning, but can I get away without tuning safely? What are the potential consequences, leaning out at the top end?
I WILL get it tuned, but I just bought another car for a steal and I'd like to hold off to financially recover if I can. So seriously, can I get away without tuning for 5 months/3000 miles?
I think I can understand why this would be the case, but is it ABSOLUTELY necessary? It's not an all-out car and I know I won't maximize any gains with the swap without tuning, but can I get away without tuning safely? What are the potential consequences, leaning out at the top end?
I WILL get it tuned, but I just bought another car for a steal and I'd like to hold off to financially recover if I can. So seriously, can I get away without tuning for 5 months/3000 miles?
Last edited by themealonwheels; 01-13-2012 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Clarifying the topic, the title was not descriptive
12-28-2011, 10:20 AM
#2
Short of a huge cam/heads/stroker, nothing else is ABSOLUTELY necessary. Your car will run and it will not destroy itself due to significant changes.
Will you gain more power/driveability? Sure thing...but you can drive on the current tune.
I would suggest at least scanning your car once after the install to monitor knock and AFR at full throttle just to be safe. Part throttle it will adjust itself given that you still have your basic sensors (intake temp, front o2 etc.)
Will you gain more power/driveability? Sure thing...but you can drive on the current tune.
I would suggest at least scanning your car once after the install to monitor knock and AFR at full throttle just to be safe. Part throttle it will adjust itself given that you still have your basic sensors (intake temp, front o2 etc.)
01-13-2012, 08:22 AM
#5
Well, my intake swap is done. I will say, it had more of an impact than I thought it would... really wish I had my AFR gauge hooked up. The car died at least 4 times while it was warming up and the idle was hit or miss until it warmed up. Now, if I'm rolling and the clutch is disengaged, it idles at 2000rpm until I stop and it goes back to 950.
Clearly I need a tune, I'm almost glad because this indicates the FAST made a big impact over the Typhoon
I wish I had some sort of software for performance monitoring, but can someone interpret this change? Basically I swapped from a 92mm FAST tb on a 96mm Typhoon to a 102/102 FAST combo with an LS6 PCV conversion thrown in for good measure... the faster idle and dying at clutch disengagement, do those indicate more air flow than expected?
Clearly I need a tune, I'm almost glad because this indicates the FAST made a big impact over the Typhoon
I wish I had some sort of software for performance monitoring, but can someone interpret this change? Basically I swapped from a 92mm FAST tb on a 96mm Typhoon to a 102/102 FAST combo with an LS6 PCV conversion thrown in for good measure... the faster idle and dying at clutch disengagement, do those indicate more air flow than expected?
01-13-2012, 08:48 AM
#6
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A TB change has the most effect on idle and throttle response because X% of throttle position gives a different amount of air-flow than before.
If you go through the procedure to reset your minimum air-rate at idle, then the system should be able to relearn most of what it needs to have a stable idle. The throttle response may not be what you want until a retune though, but it's probably not a necessity.
A larger TB will need to be closed more to achieve the same min air rate you had before.
If you have a drive-by-wire TB, then you may be at the mercy of the PCM.
Personally I stick with cable operated TBs for several reasons, so I'm not up on the latest electronic controlled throttles, - if that's what you have.
If you go through the procedure to reset your minimum air-rate at idle, then the system should be able to relearn most of what it needs to have a stable idle. The throttle response may not be what you want until a retune though, but it's probably not a necessity.
A larger TB will need to be closed more to achieve the same min air rate you had before.
If you have a drive-by-wire TB, then you may be at the mercy of the PCM.
Personally I stick with cable operated TBs for several reasons, so I'm not up on the latest electronic controlled throttles, - if that's what you have.
01-13-2012, 09:58 AM
#7
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honestly with that change likely your fuel trims will take care of it, and there won't be much difference airflow wise, so with your tune set at say 12.8 AFR or 12.6 prior to the intake swap, you will still have within 0.1 of that after the swap.
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01-13-2012, 10:25 AM
#8
A TB change has the most effect on idle and throttle response because X% of throttle position gives a different amount of air-flow than before.
If you go through the procedure to reset your minimum air-rate at idle, then the system should be able to relearn most of what it needs to have a stable idle. The throttle response may not be what you want until a retune though, but it's probably not a necessity.
A larger TB will need to be closed more to achieve the same min air rate you had before.
If you have a drive-by-wire TB, then you may be at the mercy of the PCM.
Personally I stick with cable operated TBs for several reasons, so I'm not up on the latest electronic controlled throttles, - if that's what you have.
If you go through the procedure to reset your minimum air-rate at idle, then the system should be able to relearn most of what it needs to have a stable idle. The throttle response may not be what you want until a retune though, but it's probably not a necessity.
A larger TB will need to be closed more to achieve the same min air rate you had before.
If you have a drive-by-wire TB, then you may be at the mercy of the PCM.
Personally I stick with cable operated TBs for several reasons, so I'm not up on the latest electronic controlled throttles, - if that's what you have.
And to clarify, this is a cable operated application
Even better news! My previous tune was at 12.8 before the swap and the dyno sheet didn't demonstrate much variation from that throughout the pull... If I can adjust for the throttle body, I could definitely see this working out without a tune from what I felt during the drive.
01-13-2012, 04:46 PM
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No you don't need tuning software.
Basically you close the IAC all the way, unplug it and adjust the throttle blade opening until you have a minimum idle RPM that is still stable.
Many people don't, but I re-check the TPS position and make adjustment as I see fit.
Then you reconnect your IAC and let the PCM relearn idle.
The procedure should be easy to find online for your car.
Basically you close the IAC all the way, unplug it and adjust the throttle blade opening until you have a minimum idle RPM that is still stable.
Many people don't, but I re-check the TPS position and make adjustment as I see fit.
Then you reconnect your IAC and let the PCM relearn idle.
The procedure should be easy to find online for your car.
01-30-2012, 02:21 AM
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Well that's good news, thanks for chiming in! I'll look to see if I can find a procedure for resetting the minimum air rate at idle, I don't suppose this is something I can do without a tuning program, is it?
And to clarify, this is a cable operated application
Even better news! My previous tune was at 12.8 before the swap and the dyno sheet didn't demonstrate much variation from that throughout the pull... If I can adjust for the throttle body, I could definitely see this working out without a tune from what I felt during the drive.
And to clarify, this is a cable operated application
Even better news! My previous tune was at 12.8 before the swap and the dyno sheet didn't demonstrate much variation from that throughout the pull... If I can adjust for the throttle body, I could definitely see this working out without a tune from what I felt during the drive.
