Scaling HP Tuners for Large injectors E40
10-11-2013, 07:44 PM
#1
Scaling HP Tuners for Large injectors E40 I've been looking for a few days now and cant find anything thats correct about scaling for large injectors on E40 PCM. I had 46 lbs Fast injectors before and running 85lbs fast injectors. I know fast sucks but they are already bought and in place so on to the issue. Injectors are 85lbs High Indep. with 58 psi constant at rail. I'm trying to scale the VE tables by 50% from what I've seen and need to know exactly all the tables to scale for since Flow Rate vs KPA wont go higher than 63.49. The car is S475 turbo 402 E40 PCM. Not sure what best route is for it but will see as I go. OL, SD or MAF. PLease help a brother out. thanks
10-11-2013, 11:04 PM
#2
You can easily scale the injectors using the "Flow Rate Mult vs Volts" table (just below the IFR table), no need to scale VE nor any other tables.
If your injectors are rated to 85lbs/h @ 3 bar (43.5 psi) then at 58 psi (4 bar) they flow 98.1 lb/h
The max flow rate allowed in E40 ECMs is 63 lb/h.
98.1/63 = 1.5571
Fill the whole table with 1.5571 and you're set. I have done it for 60 and 80lb/h injectors with good results.
However I have done it only for injectors with good data, I don't know how it will work for injectors with no data.
This table only allows a max multiplier of 2, if you injectors are bigger than 126 lb/h (63 x 2) then you need to scale airflow.
If your injectors are rated to 85lbs/h @ 3 bar (43.5 psi) then at 58 psi (4 bar) they flow 98.1 lb/h
The max flow rate allowed in E40 ECMs is 63 lb/h.
98.1/63 = 1.5571
Fill the whole table with 1.5571 and you're set. I have done it for 60 and 80lb/h injectors with good results.
However I have done it only for injectors with good data, I don't know how it will work for injectors with no data.
This table only allows a max multiplier of 2, if you injectors are bigger than 126 lb/h (63 x 2) then you need to scale airflow.
10-15-2013, 12:50 AM
#3
Well I have 4 bar 85lbs injectors with no data due to being fast injectors. I'm using hp tuners and this is my only issue for testing the rest of my setup. I'm trying to scale 50%. I plan on 2bar sd tune. Who knows all the tables to change in go tuners. Will out money in PayPal for the correct setup lol.
10-15-2013, 04:59 AM
#5
No point in getting pissed. I appreciate the help but you stated " However I have done it only for injectors with good data, I don't know how it will work for injectors with no data. ". Well I have no data and the injectors are rated at 4bar (58) 85lbs injectors. I am coming from my current 46lbs 4 bar injector to the new 8bs. I have done what you stated and yet your numbers are wrong. If I'm wanting to pay someone just to help with scaling for my injectors only not a full tune the don't get mad. I will tune the car myself but no use to having to scale for shitty Injectors that I already have in place. Thanks for your Input though you were the only to respond so it did help point me in The right direction.
10-15-2013, 07:36 AM
#6
Nothing shitty about the injectors. It's more like people not knowing what they are doing expecting somebody else to hand them data they should be able to develop on their own. FAST does provide the data for their own ECUs, which is what they support.
10-15-2013, 08:34 AM
#7
My numbers aren't wrong. I just told you an example of how to do it. I have scaled several this way and it works like a charm.
You need to do only a little math. I used the flow rate for 3 BAR converted to 4 BAR. If your injectors are rated to 85 lbs @ 4 bar is easier.
You need 15 min to set your injectors, flash the tune and test the car.
You need to do only a little math. I used the flow rate for 3 BAR converted to 4 BAR. If your injectors are rated to 85 lbs @ 4 bar is easier.
You need 15 min to set your injectors, flash the tune and test the car.
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10-15-2013, 12:02 PM
#8
Launching!
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You really do need to scale the VE tables if you want to be in closed loop. I can get you a list of tables if you would like but they would be in EFI-L speak.
10-15-2013, 07:37 PM
#9
This guy above is right the volts factory is 1.000 and its hardcoded to 1.0 even after all the multipliers so messing with that table doesn't do anything.
Id do a scaled MAF tune before I messed with SD.
Id do a scaled MAF tune before I messed with SD.
10-15-2013, 07:41 PM
#10
ACCLR8N those table would be great if you could get them. Anything is better than nothing. I've tried what you wrote already and didnt really work. Gonna start from scratch and just need to get the injectors set and start tuning. I'm not asking anyone to do my tune lol , I stated if you can get it correctly I could throw some money your way since there is no injector data and I'm running a E40 PCM. Thanks for the help.
10-15-2013, 08:42 PM
#12
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Have a look at this thread. Post #3 has a link to a PDF that gives you an overview if not the complete list you are looking for. Post #7 reiterates the E40 problem if you want to hear it from a third person (the author of the PDF).
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...or-IFR-Scaling
You are going to have additional fun as your engine is modified on top of the turbo. After scaling you are probably going to be on the lean side and will have to bump your main VE table back up 15-20%. Do you have a clean stock LS2 tune to start from?
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...or-IFR-Scaling
You are going to have additional fun as your engine is modified on top of the turbo. After scaling you are probably going to be on the lean side and will have to bump your main VE table back up 15-20%. Do you have a clean stock LS2 tune to start from?
10-16-2013, 09:17 PM
#14
SO heres what I got going so far. It will idle but afr is way off. Dont have my O2 sensors in place just yet. You can look at the files if your bored and let me know how big of a dumb *** I am lol. Cant wait to take a tuning class.
I did scale the IFR to 50% to be under the max and doubled my stoich to make up for injectors but still 14-16 AFR
I did scale the IFR to 50% to be under the max and doubled my stoich to make up for injectors but still 14-16 AFR
10-16-2013, 09:52 PM
#15
TECH Apprentice
If you halve the IFR and double the stoich, you don't have to scale anything else in the tune. The problem is, without proper injector data, its going to be tough to get things running right.
10-16-2013, 10:21 PM
#16
There's is data for fast 85lbs 4 bar injectors. Any ideas on what tables should be changed. Pulse and whatnot? I've read everything online and still don't see a real write up. Thinking about selling injectors and getting something else.
10-17-2013, 12:19 AM
#17
SO heres what I got going so far. It will idle but afr is way off. Dont have my O2 sensors in place just yet. You can look at the files if your bored and let me know how big of a dumb *** I am lol. Cant wait to take a tuning class.
I did scale the IFR to 50% to be under the max and doubled my stoich to make up for injectors but still 14-16 AFR
I did scale the IFR to 50% to be under the max and doubled my stoich to make up for injectors but still 14-16 AFR
Also your wideband can't be right, as it's showing 18+ AFR in closed loop. And I would lower the WOT spark timing from 28*, and why is your PE so lean?
Russ Kemp
10-17-2013, 12:57 AM
#18
The tune is the original from my na setup still. I am just trying to tune for injectors. The tune you see was done by a local tuner shop and never had a issue with it. I am trying to get a good idle tune so I can make sure all new radiator and lines are all good to go for a new tune. Not sure about the spark so high and all. I'm still learning slowly but plan on going to a school to start tuning my own cars.
