Justa6MB

I know...I've read so many threads about Dominator vs HP vs MS3 vs ??? and my brain is just about mush... I really would like to go Dominator but I seriously just don't know if I can afford it. By the time I add all the harness' and sensors I'll need and want I'll be $3,000 ++. That's $9,000 CAD (well maybe $5k landed) for those of us in the Great White North Eh! I don't think I could go HP due to lack of inputs/outputs unless I use stand alone boost controllers, launch control etc. which closes the price gap. So I keep coming around to looking at MS3 Gold Box LS package. Pretty good package and it included injectors. But after reading the manuals am I right to assume it will come with pretty much everything except I'll need to buy a wideband controller? Or 2 if I want to use dual O2 sensors? It seems like people like what they have - or at least claim to. So I'm going to pop the question. Has anyone bought a MS3 system and regretted not just robbing a bank and going Dominator? Thanks

JoeNova

If you want built in trans control or drive-by-wire, Holley is your best option. MS3 has an optional trans controller but its extra $$$, still comes in cheaper than the Holley.
They have their trade-offs.

From MY experience, and I may mess this up a little:

Holley:
PROS (depending on model)
-More user friendly
-Better interface
-DBW control
-Built in Trans control
-Pre-configured inputs specific to your engine.
-More hardware addons directly from the manufacturer.
-Includes Bosch O2 sensor

CONS (also depending on the model)
-Proprietary CANBUS format.
-PRICE $$$
-Less Customization

MS3
PROS (based on model)
-Built in 4-bar MAP and Barometer (MS3Pro)
-MUCH better datalogging (preference?)
-More customization.
-Standard CANBUS format (Infinite Analog/Digital/PWM I/O easy and cheap via Arduino or other CANBUS capable microcontrollers)
-Lower Price with either Gold Box or MS3Pro.

CONS
-Fewer manufacturer hardware options (Those Holley dashes are nice)
-Interface may take slightly longer to become accustomed to.
-Separate trans control
-No DBW or even planned DBW control.


For me, MS3 is a clear winner. I like the option for infinite input/outputs using an arduino. I like MegaLogViewer HD more than the Holley datalogger. The price doesn't hurt, either.
For someone who is willing to pay the extra for a more plug and play friendly setup, Holley is probably the way to go.

MS3Pro vs Gold Box is up for debate. Now that the Pro has released the EVO and the Ultimate models and phased out the Gen 1 stuff, the Pro is much better than the Gold Box, but more expensive.
That being said, I'm not a fan of DIYAutotune. The product is fine, not too fond of the seller.


To me, the Holley is more user friendly. The interface is a little easier to navigate. I don't think it has as much customization to my taste, but easier.
The MS3 does more of the things I want it to. I'm a fan of CAN BUS expansion. With the MS3 its VERY easy. I can add nearly infinite digital I/O or analog inputs with about $20 and a little programming.

JimTA

iTrader: (10)

You might go back and have a look at HP's site. The new expander for MPVI2 is due out soon and will have outputs.. Depending on how many you need and how sophisticated it might sweeten the price difference anyway.

I have the same dilemma about the big bucks for Holley, but I have some friends that have done it and say it is the best thing they have done to their cars.

MY_2K_Z

iTrader: (1)

I think you might be confused. They are taking about aftermarket ecu's not tuning software for stock ecu's

JimTA

iTrader: (10)

I stay confused. He mentioned HP I assumed HP Tuners. I'll go back to lurking 😞

markster

I have the EFI Source Gold Box. Works great, no complaints. I like it so much I just bought a second one.

Justa6MB

I appreciate the replies. So this is drag race only and as you can tell budget is a big thing. I like to hear people like the MS3 but the fact that Holley is so much more user friendly concerns me. I do run XFI in my GN but honestly haven't had to spend much time playing with it. But I'm certainly not green to aftermarket ecu's. Please give me your thoughts on the following:
I do not need transmission control for sure as I'll be running a glide. But it will have a brake and I will want to bump in or preferably roll in.
I do want boost control on and after launch. Nothing crazy, currently running an old AMS500 in the GN.
I will want launch RPM - 2 step/3 step etc.
I will be running the stock LY6 truck manifold and have the original DBW throttle body and pedal but didn't get the tac module. Would like to hear pros and cons of DBW vs cable TB. Would DBW+Dominator give me the option to control throttle for index racing?
I do want to log fuel pressure but don't currently think I'll want to log oil psi, trans temp etc.
Depending on what fuel I use I may install meth injection and may want to log alky pressure.
With that said here's what I'm thinking.
Option A) Dominator + fuel injectors + sensors + req'd harness' = $4,000+ ish. Use DBW TB. Would it be crazy to save $500 and decap my truck fuel injectors for a while?
Option B) Gold Box LS (with injectors and harness') + DBC TB + sensors + WB = $2,200+ ish.
Option C) MS3Pro +++ = $2700+ish?
Option D) Holley HP +fuel injectors (or decap) +DBC TB + sensors = $2700+ish

Again would love your thoughts.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

I personally prefer the feel of a cable TB.

We have used the Holley HP in multiple cars to control the rest of what you want. It easily does boost control, two step, fuel pressure, oil pressure, fans, shift light, trans solenoid, etc... Last I looked the HP was on sale for about $1700 with harness and wideband. In my opinion get a cheap cable throttle body and save $1000+!

Justa6MB

JoeNova

SO much more user friendly is probably an overstatement. The Holley is nicer to use for most, but not all. By how much is definitely debatable.
I really like the MS3 layout after having a lot of time with it. Being able to use basically any tablet for a gauge cluster with MS3 is nice.

MS3Pro Evo with a plug and play harness is just over $1800 after shipping. Injectors depend on how much power you want to make, but you're looking at ~$400 for injectors.
$100 cheap cable throttle body, $125-175 wideband. You're looking at $2500 or so. Gold box is cheaper. Has less features and input/outputs. Its a sacrifice you'll have to make for a cheaper price.

GarrettT/A

I have a gold box on a nitrous 1/4 mile car and I love it, If i were to do it again i might even try a cheaper MS option. The Gold box is overkill for my application, seeing as you are forced induction it may make more sense for you.

All excellent points by Joe nova. The only thing I would like to add is that the gold box/harness doesn't seem to be as durable as the Holley stuff. It just feels cheap in comparison. I have had to replace a few broken connectors for no good reason and the box is not a sealed unit either.


One more thing, as you are in Canada. The Gold box is going to cost you over $2200 ca dollars for just the box and harness. EfiSource/diyautotune are not brokered so you may want to make some shipping arrangements if you choose to go that route.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Fuel pressure, oil pressure, fuel pump, tach, etc all that stuff is built into the main harness so no extra I/O is taken up by them. With the extension harness you have 8 more positive, negative, PWM I/O to use for whatever you want. We use those for the boost solenoid, shift solenoid, transbrake, 2 step, trigger fan relay, pre intercooler IAT, etc... Holley has a virtual pin map so you just drag the item you want to the pin you want then configure it.


Can do the same thing with Holley, I use a $100 Dell 8" tablet with mine.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

Look at the LS Terminator series that Holley sells LINK, They are basically kits that come with either the HP or Dominator ecu and they have different kits for different applications, Basically it saves you money over buying everything separate. Here is one kit that comes with the Dominator ECU and DBW harness Holleys price is $2679
Also look at becoming a TeamTick Member at Tick Performance and you will get a discount on that will save you even more. Tick's member price is $2625. Yes it's only a $50 savings but that's because Holley already has them on sale but They also give discounts on a bunch of other stuff. Membership is $50 and you get aT-Shirt a Hat and some other stuff.
I know it sounds like I have something to do with Tick Performance but I don't, I just joined because at the time I saved a couple hundred dollars on the same kit I linked above when it wasn't on sale. I've bought from them several times and always saved some cash.
If you do go with the Holley system their Pressure sensors are $100+ but you can use the sensors sold on E-bay (china) for non critical stuff. I tested several of them against the Holley sensor and they were all within a pound of the Holley sensor, I even tested Holley's sensors and they don't always read the same. I had three 0-100psi Holleys connected to a test manifold (pipe threaded for multiple sensors) and they didn't read exactly the same from 20lbs to 80lbs. The most they were off was 1lb either way.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

There are benefits to DBW but it all comes down to preference.
The one thing I like about drive by wire is the ability to control the rate. You can have a linear rate so 50% pedal is 50% throttle opening or you can use progressive and so 50% can be 75% throttle or whatever you like. It could be handy on a slick track to be able to program it so throttle input has a slight ramp in the beginning then a steep ramp right before the pedal is 100%.

Justa6MB

Ok so I looked at the Terminator kits before and couldn't find "Dominator" detailed specs on it. Plus it doesn't say Dominator on the ECU. But is it actually the same ECU?

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

Yes it's the same exact ECU I've bought a couple of the kits, Still have a new one on the shelf right now.

Edit: The Terminator can come with either the HP or Dominator ECU, You can look at the pictures and see the size difference.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

If you have any doubts this is a screen shot from the Holley Terminator instructions, If you look up the part numbers you will find they are the HP 554-113 and Dominator ECUs 554-114

Krom

http://www.chiltrix.com/

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

That link goes to a A/C and heating website lol

Justa6MB

Appreciate all the info. I've been looking at injectors and TB's etc. I've seen 210's on ebay for less than $200! But i'm sure they're junk. And $550 at other vendors. Would like to hear options.