Lt1slowerbird

Okay so long story but I had a pretty good remote tune by pat G then had some serious issues with the car afterwards that was in no fault of the tune however one of the things that went bad was the MAF which original was the metal one and PO had it descreened. After this I had to replace with the new style plastic card style with iat. I kept my original iat location and used the adapter. However once I finally figured out the issues with my car after the winter my fuel trims are adding a good bit of fuel during cruising and low to mid rpms. Which I suspect is my VE table and or MAF curve..to begin I set maf fail to 0 Hz and logged trims. Had to adjust my secondary table a bit. Now on my 2000 I have two tables. The secondary is labeled in 10s of kpa instead of by 5. So to transfer the secondary I can copy and paste the table to primary then highlight say 50-60 Kpa range and interpolate to get an accurate area for 55kpa on my primary right? I’m by no means a tuner and definitely more of a tooner. But I’d like to learn a bit and am pretty sure I can piggy back off of pats tune to fix my fueling problem..Just wondering if I’m doing this properly..I think I’m making progress as I’m getting +\-2 or 3 under load in most cells with the maf failed. Now to recalibrate maf properly do I just log the Hz and STFT and/or the LTFT+STFT if have long terms enabled and do the same method of multiply by half % across the maf table and blend the curve back in? Or do I have to enable the maf trimming to start at very low Hz like some of the things I’ve read? Also I’ll have to post a picture of my VE table as its curve looks wild, I figure it is do to the prc heads and the large cam being inefficient and soft down low.

ChopperDoc

If you are using trims to tune, the only use the STFT's, and disable LTFT's all together. LTFT's are basically "STFT's" that have "learned" through time to adjust, think of them like historical STFT's. With every write of the PCM, this memory is erased pretty much, so you need to only use current data, aka, STFT's. So LTFT's are pretty much the same thing, except it takes a really long time to make adjustments, and will throw your STFT's off, because it changes the real time calculations, which is short term.

For your secondary VE table, no, you have to copy row by row. Most make the corrections on the main first, smooth and make all adjustments, then copy those changes to the secondary each time, yes again row by row. It's annoying, but very important. When your MAF is failed, the secondary VE is the primary table. You want both your VE tables to match, at whatever row in question because when you go back to MAF, you will have wasted a lot of time tuning if the primary VE table is now off from what you were tuning.

Last thing, since you are using STFT's to tune, do not try and tune wide open throttle, or anything into power enrichment. As soon as PE mode comes on, the STFT's are disabled, so... you won't have an adjustment to go by. That's why it's a good idea to get a wideband and tune everything with that, especially WOT.

Also turn off DFCO, COT, set EQ correction (the temp one, not PE) to 1.0 above 140* ECT, and don't forget LTFT's either, while tuning the VE.

Lt1slowerbird

Okay well dang. Wasted day then. So what I should do. Is copy my current primary table into my secondary. Log. Then update my primary with the changes. Then copy into secondary and re log then rinse repeat? Or am I not following properly? I do have dfco disabled and have been using stfts just due to my cam being 235/243. I Figured the long terms would make my idle Trims wonky due to the overlap. I barely pull any vacuum at idle. And it’s interesting you say these steps with the EQ TEMP adder that I must do when my tuner banged this tune out in 2 tunes. Having thousands of tune files under your belt probably helps though. If the car would enter PE or it would show in the histogram as just a 0 then correct?. I’d been getting my high load areas by ranging the Rpms on a very long hill on a stretch of road and using some braking and rolling into throttle to hit the higher Kpa areas. Hopefully tomorrow I can get a fresh tune in it and try again. Thank you


i would assume my high rpm high old areas should still be correct. My o2s read in the .950s at wot so i assumed that portion of my fueling was still good.

ChopperDoc

Yes, make the adjustments on the Primary VE table, and then copy them to the secondary each time. For PE, yes, it will show 0's when active. You can actually log to see if PE is enabled or not. One trick is to set the enable MAP on PE a little bit higher so you can tune the lower areas, for now. You really can't tune the upper regions of the VE without getting into power enrichment, so the WB becomes important to have. Hopefully that makes sense. If not, I have a few guides in my sig your can check out.

Lt1slowerbird

Okay just one more question Say I update my primary VE table after a log. Do I copy the whole table and then paste it into the secondary and let hptuner average everything into the 10 kpa interval ranges or do I copy and paste Each 10 kpa row separately? I’m unsure of if hptuners will average the data across the unavailable adjoining kpa ranges or will it just paste the available cells cut and dry. I will definitely check out your sig

ChopperDoc

Each row must be copied over, one by one.

Lt1slowerbird

I’m actually watching your video for the VE tuning. I wish I had a wideband. My way would be using the stfts. I planned on tuning my maf curve with the STFT logged against the MAF Hz then adjusting by percentages that I had a lot of counts in then hand blending the rest just like the VE table. Is this correct? I’ve watched several different little how to videos and literally all of them do different things and have different ways of doing all of these things. However my first step is to set The EQ correction to 1 and relog everything. Afterwards When I tune the maf do I leave the car as is with the eq temp setting? And is there a table I adjust to tell what Hz to use maf solely for fueling? As I believe a guide somewhere I read says to lower that to very low so that when tuning maf curves it is basing fueling on the maf all the time

ChopperDoc

Your method will work for everything outside PE. As a guesstimate, you can add in the percentages for MAF and VE based on your PE settings to get the AFR closer in the PE areas, after you have a decent looking VE and MAF, that is.

Leave off all the adders when tuning everything, when you're done re-enable them as desired. Some folks leave the DFCO off so they can hear the pipes rattle on decel lol. You are trying to get accurate airflow estimates for the PCM. Adders only complicate this further than need be. A good tune starts with good VE baseline, then MAF. After that you can add the adders back in.

I've been playing around with some scanner maths lately seeing if there is a way to log the EQ correction based on WB. Shouldn't be too hard really, I'll post something when I get back to working on that and figure something out.

By the way, 1.17 as the PE setting gives you a 12.5:1 commanded AFR. However, if you do the math:

12.5 / 14.63 = 0.85%, so 15% richer, not 17% as it would seem from the 1.17 denominator.

If you do the same for boost enrich:

11.5 / 14.63 = 0.79% so 21% richer. Not 27% as this too would seem. Same here, 1.27 is the typical setting.

So for you airflow values into PE, multiply by 15% (IN THOSE CELLS ONLY) to account for PE. I still HIGHLY recommend picking up a WB to confirm all those adjustments into WOT. But for now this will do.

Lt1slowerbird

The h3ll with that. With dfco off I get 15 mpg if I’m lucky. Lol. My car with headers ORY and Borla is loud enough without the decel crackling. I’ve subscribed to your video. I don’t have many videos but you can see the first startup vid of my car. And a few others of it. The laptop is actually in my car. I bought a cigarette lighter power strip that has plug outlets on it so I just leave my little touchscreen laptop in the car for now since I can charge it while I log. If I remember I’ll be sure to attach a recent log and tune to you.

Lt1slowerbird

Attached is my file, if im right then the eq correction for temp has already been set to 1 in the ECT adder under fuel enrichment... so maybe my logging has not been in vain?

Lt1slowerbird

If anyone cares to look. This is where I ended after two full tanks of driving, possibly a set of brake pads, arguing with the old lady about taking too long, and blending and manipulating data. I did do a quick maf calibration and after the first go round I was ready to go home. So I did my changes to the maf curve at lower Hz values and called it good. The trims before on SD mode were damn close, The maf only calibration was pretty close as well up to only 7,000 Hz though. The temperature dropped significantly after I did my VE changes at around 5pm vs when I did my maf calibration at around 8pm which I think has something to do with my cells reading a touch lean, denser air and all that with the colder temps, atleast that's what I assumed...Either way, The car runs and drives and has no spark knock and The car actually seems to be a bit smoother at low rpms still has a spot where it gets bucking. I may sometime instigate it to log exactly where its at and just pull an arseload of spark from it to calm it down ...The cam is an SNS 3 (235/243|.630/.610| 111+2. Heads are PRC 225s with LS6 intake on top with 42 lb injectors.. I may retune on a day within the same time frame, now that I have a pretty solid base VE and MAF. I do have some more to go, however at steady state the car runs +/- 3 in most of all cells in SD, I DID NOT spend much time tuning the decel map values, partially due to I was seeing different gears dip into a different map range when in steady state cruising or light partial throttling and Also because I was focused on my cruising and lower rpms areas.. Also idk if the log will load my layouts, but i have the STFT and MAF Hz table setup with a PE filter to exclude anything where AFR commanded is less than 14.0 Thank you for your help Doc