rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

So first off, id like to put in plain english how I feel about Holleys efi tech support. It is the worst i ve EVER dealt with. I own and operate a small hvac company(20yrs experiance). So im used to controls, wiring schematics, and tech support. We deal with complicated systems on a daily basis. Such as Taco, Honeywell, etc. Thats the future of my business, controls, features, automation, etc. Just wanted people to know that before hand.
I ve spent multiple days recently trouble shooting my brand new efi install in a head and cam lsx set up car. Im not placing blame on products or wiring, mistakes happen, things get overlooked, etc. What im purely discussing here is my experiance with Holleys Tech Support. It is the worst I have personally dealt with. Once you can get passed the extremely long wait times(unfortunately, par for course), I ve noticed that several technicians are simply improperly trained! Fact is, they are reading from a flow chart at best. Their training is minimal. Im guessing there is little to no background of even general automotive knowledge. Especially electrical. I experianced several dropped calls along the way, different technician each time, and despite them taking my phone number down, not a single returned call. All of this is less than satisfactory service right out of the gate. I was sent in circles chasing my tail for a couple of few days now. Lots of silence on the phone as they scramble for some google search results. Improper info given by Techs, etc. I was never transferred to a tier 2 or tier 3 technician. I approached this with the understanding that obviously theres something Im probably doing wrong or a faulty part. I also realize theres more than 1 way to skin a cat and they cant know the intricacies of each and every build thst calls in. Again, im not new to this game, just this brand! I tried to make the conversations go smoother by simply offering known data and said issues. Voltages, pin outs, etc. Time and time again, we cover the same knowledge of part numbers, battery volts, bla bla bla. The most general of questions, i get that. Low hanging fruit. But at which point do we/us/they start diving in with me? I have a friend, safety pins, 2 electric meters on hand each time. Im finding we get no where fast. This site isnt Holleys, Im aware it owes me/us/we nothing! I m here mostly to post on my experiance on the Tech support or lack there of on the phone. Im a paying customer who spent thousands of dollars. The support/customer service doesnt match the prices these products command. I ve been on the phone with a couple well known local holley guys(where my car is probably going to next). They all sang the same tune. "Using Holley tech support is a waste of time", "we have so n so on speed dial", or "we can get right thru to bla bla bla the engineer", etc. Its almost like theres literally a hierarchy of preferential treatment.

-Rant Off-

minytrker

iTrader: (13)

Thats why it matters where you buy from it IMO. Buy from a certified reputable dealer and use them for tech support. We have all our customers call us vs the tech line. Its alot better to get support from a place that uses, installs and tunes holley daily vs possibly getting someone reading off Q cards. Holley is an awesome company and makes great products but they are huge and currently not operating at 100% due to covid 19. so that doesnt help.

gjestico

iTrader: (5)

Sooo if not Holley, Then what other mfgr's unit would you use ?. Serious question.

G Atsma

Nobody's objecting to the product, rather the service from the parent company. As said above, with which I agree, deal with the dealer/distributor for best service. The mfr. isn't always set up for the most optimum customer service, but in many cases, such as here, your best shot is with the dealer you bought from.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Haltech and Motec are two major companies that actually build and design their own products and provide real support because they actually understand their own products unlike Holley who just outsources. They also won't lose a tune if you happen to try to start your vehicle with a low battery so that's a biggie. LOL Hell even the newer AEM infinity stuff has been getting pretty good reviews and it's also a true airmass model like Haltech and Motec from what I've heard.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

Sorry guys, I forgot I posted this, mostly out of disappointment. But the fact remains, im still alil upset with Holley. Its lookn like my bnib $1800 ecu is bricked. Granted, i bought it 3yrs ago as i ve been thru a ground up nut n bolt build. Not uncommon, but the warranty is expired. I m shipping the ecu back to them to hopefully have them wipe it clean, reboot it, bench test it, whatever...hoping it comes back to me functional. Issue at hand is still **** poor tech support, but i could live with that kinda service. If not, than im out $1800-$2000 for a new ecu. I d have no choice but to buy a new one because my build is wired for it. Its also one of the few systems out there that checked all of my boxs for my build. Lsx, 4l80e, dual dbw tb s, etc... We ll see. Im being truly optimistic. Nothing looks damaged, so hoping its just firmware issues. 3-4 of thier tech support guys sent me on a wild goose chase already. I was lucky enough to have a lil determination and electrical/schematic backround to circumvent some of the bad info i was given/chasing. Truth be told, i should have been transfered to a higher up technician at some point. You gotta understand something here, this is a multi million dollar company. Im aware theres a virus and what not. But if your gunna keep a "skeleton crew", you d think they d keep the cream of the crop knowledgeable guys. I wasted A LOT of time on hold and going over rhetorical information. As in each n every time i called back, it was like starting all over at the beginning with a new tech. Lots of long holds, dropped calls, dying cell phone batteries, lap top batteries, etc. You literally have to plumb your car and or garage with enough power just to keep phone charged, battery tender on, and laptop charged. Than be ready to trouble shoot from the beginning again and again so to speak. Its not hard to burn thru 3-4hrs each time just to end at same place.
I had been pretty convinced prior to the last 3days that the ecu was corrupt, being brand new, you just dont wanna believe that. But...i ve seen it many a times before in the hvac industry. If its man made, it can break. Long story short, I called back(another long wait that im so used to already) to get some kind of return authorization number. A tech named Ron T. answered. I told him i wasnt interested in any more troubleshooting, that I was burnt out n done going in circles. He said pretty much that he s "the one". So 2hrs of reminiscent trouble shooting later, the ecu is goin back. Lol. Im thankful I got to talk with Ron tho. He was very thorough n taught me quite a bit navigating thru the software i ve barely even touched on yet. Guys, all of this crap to get thru just the TPS AUTOSET. Havnt even gotten into the tuning and or capabilities yet. As far as calling a dealer, its pretty much gunna be the same thing as a couple other guys have said-"bring the car in, we ll figure it out, we got direct lines to the big wigs". Or id be paying for a shops time to troubleshoot the amount of hrs I did just to come to the same conclusion. You get the idea.
Short story Long here is, Holley efi is intermingled with quite a bit if GM parts. Im not a GM technician. I have a basic knowledge. Some of the tech support guys seemed to have very little training in the Holley efi and its sequence of operations. It did not help that there was little to no info available and or training with the GM parts the system uses too. Its not the end of the world, i ll get it figured out. Just at the expense of time, n more than likely bad bnib parts. Again, they shouldnt be crucified. But cmon guys, get these boys trained up on this expensive azz stuff. Proper training and knowledge here could have saved both of us lots of time!

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

Well theres some fine print for ya! Lol, jk. I hear what your saying. But im not a total moron. I defly dont know what alot of what you guys do on this site. But I can read a schematic, ohm out wires for continuity, voltages, etc. I deal with some pretty sophisticated tech very similar to this in the hvac field. Its all kinda the same if that makes sense. This is just a different brand with different values. Thats how I came to the conclusion this particular customer support is seriously lacking.

Honestly, I would not know. This is my first build like this.

Yup, pretty much. I bought mine bnib here on tech 3yrs ago. If thats bad on me because of this(hindsight), than so be it. Still doesnt change the lack of knowledgeable tech support. For the price of these products, theres no excuse. Id been better off calling Ikea to figure out thier cam lock furniture assembly system. Which I ve never struggled with, lol...

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

Honestly, had we dealt with Ron T sooner, there would have been no disappointment other than the possibility of a bad new part. That'd be a whole other problem. Ron was well trained, and very thorough. He/we reached the same conclusion I previously did. He just kinda left no stone unturned. And all things considered, I got a nice little education in navigating the software. I do plan on taking some courses or webinars in the future. Just wanted to get the car running meanwhile on a starter tune so I can shake it down before we really lean on it and dial it in. Lookn like we are back on track and getting closer. I really hope I dont have to buy another new ecu, lol.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

interesting outlook, because in my industry, its the exact opposite. You wouldnt call the supply house for problems with equipment they sell. You d be in touch with the manufacturer and thier support. Im a firm believer in RTFM.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

The issue with Holley is the same with many large companies, They have a large product line and field lots of calls so they hire a lot of people to answer those calls and those techs aren't fully trained on everything they take calls for. They didn't design it/program/build it so their experience isn't always enough to solve all the problems they get calls on, I'm sure it's just not feasible to have the true experts answering 100's of calls while also trying to further develop new products. I'm not saying it's right but just how it works when you sell thousands of products daily instead of hundreds. Another point of view, If I have a problem with my furnace or AC unit I don't call the manufacturer I call the guys who install and work on them. I have used Holley for warranty work and it's always been a pretty smooth experience, They even warrantied a Dash with an expired warranty because it sat on the shelf for almost a year before it was opened.

gjestico

iTrader: (5)

I would hazard a guess that the product price point does not support high-level tech phone support. Guys who know that **** well arent working $15/hr phone lines.

Its reasons like this that I made my own engine simulator to bench test ecu's. You can learn all about it how it ticks, And if its circuits are intact.

Theres a lot of guys who think they know it all that make mistakes in installs (Me included) . And EFI being as complicated as it is, There's lots of seemingly dumb chit that can bite you. Failure is the best teacher.

minytrker

iTrader: (13)

I wasnt implying you didnt know what your doing, sorry if it came off that way.
But we get calls everyday where people make basics mistakes on their install and just by asking a few questions can help them out. Its not to often we will have them chases wires with a meter, 99% of the time its something more basic. Or the other common issue we is someone misses several critical settings in the ecu, scaled sensors wrong and or didn't do a tps autoset and then cant figure out why it wont start. Alot of the calls we get are basic and if the person would just read the holley (applies to hp tuners also) instructions it would have answered there question. Those are just a few things a dealer who uses holley could help figure out quickly vs a person who never has used holley and just reading a screen.
Holley does have some very smart and knowledgeable efi techs there but they are hard to get ahold of.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

That damn tps autoset...its the devil. All Carol Baskins fault! Lol. Yup, its defly not the end of the world. Had we spoke with Ron T. sooner, the ecu would have been diagnosed in proper within a reasonable amount of time. Its the days of calls, dropped calls, and starting over that gets to ya. If I have to tell one more technician what pedal part number im using, i ll lose my mind! In the manual, theres only one GM part # you can use. Luckily for me, i now own 2 perfectly good ones because of a lack of training. At this point, i would have been happy to made one of these simpler mistakes. I d have a running 4yr build now. The thought of possibly having to buy a new ECU is sickening at this stage of the game. But I wont panic til I know for sure. I think I mite have to succumb to 2020 and make a fb pg. It looks like theres a Holley group that I really could have benefited from knowing had I posted up my issues.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Ouch, thats a bad beat. All that troubleshooting to have a dead new ECU. Hopefully Holley is willing to do SOMETHING to help you being that its brand new or can bring yours back to life. Hope it gets sorted. I'm sure your anxious to get it driving.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

I'm truly hoping it just needs some firmware rebooting on their end! If not, yea, than I'll be really PO'd. I'm hopeful. My buddy has an extra ecu bnib for his racecar he s likely not wiring anytime soon. So I'd just try and buy his and replace it in the near future. Trying to get him to bring it up here and lets have a go at it. His is only a yr or two old. I promised a free V5 build 171 update! LOL, Holley humor

jaydubb

Factory

dixiebandit69

I'd second this, but the O/P said that he's using dual DBW throttle bodies; I don't think the factory PCM can support that.

With that said, if you AREN'T doing something that a factory PCM can't support, I think that going with an aftermarket PCM is just opening a can of worms.

Hell, I think that many times, going with aftermarket engine parts causes a lot of problems.

You rarely hear guys complaining on here about factory parts not fitting right, or failing quickly after installation.
But time after time, I've seen guys spend more on their long-block than I've spent on my whole build, and they're having one problem after another.

jaydubb

Yeah the dual TB's can't be done factory. You're right. And I second the fact about the factory parts tho...

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

True, but where is the fun in all of that? Lol. Keepn everything stock? Jk, i hear what your saying. We have defly fought everything tooth and nail on my build. There isnt many novas like mine out there(prove me wrong). Still, none of that has much to do with Holleys tech support and thier "illiteracy" per say. I didnt dive into to many details, but i was waiting for someone to ask what the actual issue is. The car wont go thru TPS AUTOSET. And considering the harness is actually plug n play, quite simple really, is even more madening. Its not like we even got to the tuning part yet and all the advanced features. Should have been a quick n painless diagnosis. Especially with the amount of time we had in checking all the wires for proper pin out locations, voltages, and function. This part of the journey isnt rocket science. And I promise you, no matter where I brought it, the conclusion would have been the same. But with a shops 5hr+ bill attached! Just sayn.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

Heres diagramn we are workn with. Holley made MY ultimate diagnosis harder on me with thier bad info. Cost me lots of time and thankfully only an $80 pedal from summit. The fact that now my ecu may be faulty is just a whole other issue id rather not speak of til I have the facts. It just would have been easier had they transferred me to a higher level technician earlier on. Or perhaps had one reach out to me. Or opend up a "case" for my issues. Instead, each call was groundhog day. Lots of wasted time on hold and going over the basics/formalities. Not very productive is what im gettn at. I ll post up a pic of said plug n play harness diagramn for yall to see.