Step by step SD tuning?????????
11-15-2004, 01:47 AM
#21
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Ok sorry for the stupid question, i've been lurking in on the SD threads on ls1tech and hptuners forums.
why would you reconnect the MAF after you have completed tuning?
WS6snake eater or anybody else have you done before/after dyno runs to note added hp from speed density tune.
thanks
why would you reconnect the MAF after you have completed tuning?
WS6snake eater or anybody else have you done before/after dyno runs to note added hp from speed density tune.
thanks
11-15-2004, 08:20 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by JimMueller
I just tried this. I've got 13.0 basically from 800RPM <-> 5200RPM. Swapped the other tables to their previous values, re-enabled the DTC's and plugged in the MAF. LTFT's immediately jumped to 24 and the STFT's were showing 2 at idle (6 max). What happened? 
OK your SD tune is now good but, since you plugged the MAF back in you will have to scale the MAF to achieve your desired LTFTs again. Don't forget to reset the trims and run a while before you start scaling. It will probably take a few runs.
11-15-2004, 08:27 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by fullfloatingHD
Ok sorry for the stupid question, i've been lurking in on the SD threads on ls1tech and hptuners forums.
why would you reconnect the MAF after you have completed tuning?
WS6snake eater or anybody else have you done before/after dyno runs to note added hp from speed density tune.
thanks
why would you reconnect the MAF after you have completed tuning?
WS6snake eater or anybody else have you done before/after dyno runs to note added hp from speed density tune.
thanks
I have personally not done a back to back comparison of SD vs MAF. SD is more for drivability than for power. However I have seen claims of plus 10 rwhp throughout the RPM band somewhere on the HPT site. I believe one of the Aussie guys posted it. I guess that would seem about right since you are removing the restriction from the intake tract.
11-16-2004, 02:03 PM
#24
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Why not just set the tps/pe enable table to 0% for tuning. That way the motor is in full time pe mode and stays in open loop and commands whatever the pe table is set at( 1.13 for a 13.0 af).
I tuned my maf that way and think it would work for tuning the ve tables as well.
Also if using the maf to tune, how reliable is the efilive calc VE in pcm # pid?
Steve
I tuned my maf that way and think it would work for tuning the ve tables as well.
Also if using the maf to tune, how reliable is the efilive calc VE in pcm # pid?
Steve
01-28-2005, 08:44 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by WS6snake-eater
Step by Step for SD tuning:
1: Unplug MAF (Replace with strait bellows if you do not have intentions of ever using a MAF again ie. always speed density.)
1: Unplug MAF (Replace with strait bellows if you do not have intentions of ever using a MAF again ie. always speed density.)
I wonder if he can make one up from Home Depot? ... for the moment, of course.
01-28-2005, 08:47 PM
#26
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I'm just using some 3" tubing from home depot! You might have to either Microwave or drop it into some really hot water for a few secs to allow it to stretch around the TB, and Lid. It will take some messing with but it will work.
02-02-2005, 09:49 PM
#27
few questions about this, i am gettin hp tuners soon:
1) how do you account for injectors in all of this? i will be getting 36# but i have 28.8 i put in. should i copy the 28.8 table from a stock 01-02 and then get the tune right and then go tuning for the injectors?
2) i have headers, i read something about chaning things for the o2 sensors. sorry for not being clear but if you understand what im talking about what does this do and is it necessary. you say only idle is messed up with headers and colder o2's? how should i account for that until i get a wide band?
3) what is the advantage of a MAF less tune? drivability only? so do i just tune for no maf and then i never have to worry about it? weather wont change the way the car runs?
4) im seeing that number 4000 rpms and under and then over that maf takes over. and i read about hitting all the points. can someone explain this in more detail on why 4000 rpm's? and what has to be done?
im just trying to get everything in line so when i get the tuning stuff i can get it pretty good. also, can someone comment about using the graphs and how that is done to help tuning?
1) how do you account for injectors in all of this? i will be getting 36# but i have 28.8 i put in. should i copy the 28.8 table from a stock 01-02 and then get the tune right and then go tuning for the injectors?
2) i have headers, i read something about chaning things for the o2 sensors. sorry for not being clear but if you understand what im talking about what does this do and is it necessary. you say only idle is messed up with headers and colder o2's? how should i account for that until i get a wide band?
3) what is the advantage of a MAF less tune? drivability only? so do i just tune for no maf and then i never have to worry about it? weather wont change the way the car runs?
4) im seeing that number 4000 rpms and under and then over that maf takes over. and i read about hitting all the points. can someone explain this in more detail on why 4000 rpm's? and what has to be done?
im just trying to get everything in line so when i get the tuning stuff i can get it pretty good. also, can someone comment about using the graphs and how that is done to help tuning?
02-04-2005, 01:08 AM
#30
Setting it to 13.0 is a temporary, arbitrary safe AFR to assist in receiving a properly commanded AFR. If you divide your PE values into stoich, that's the commanded PE AFR. The result won't be correct unless the respective VE cells are correct for the weather conditions. Also, leaving it in open loop 13.0 would hurt your fuel economy.
02-04-2005, 07:59 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by greentahoe
If we have agreed that this is an accurate method for SD Tuning, can we make this a sticky as well??
I actually compiled a much better write up on the HPtuners site. When I intially posted this thread, I was phasing it in the form of a question. Basically just hunting for ideas, and to get others opinions. If you would like to see a more complete step by step method and discussion on the topic follow this link here:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/YaBB.p...num=1100894562
There are still some changes to be made in that write up as well. However my car has been down for the last couple of months, and I am just now getting it going again this weekend. I will probably be spending the next couple of weeks, testing out some different theories, and compiling posts from different threads, that I feel will help benefit others. I intend to re-edit that post with a more complete up to date methodolgy. I also intend on referencing other threads to work on dialing in MAF tables and so forth. Long story short, I don't beleive that this thread in particular should be made a sticky, as there is better, more complete info already out there on the subject. My goal is to find it all and condense it to one nice complete writeup/post. Everything form inital startup/idle to dialing in WOT on the dyno. Of course every car will be different, however it will give others at least a starting point.
02-04-2005, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
few questions about this, i am gettin hp tuners soon:
1) how do you account for injectors in all of this? i will be getting 36# but i have 28.8 i put in. should i copy the 28.8 table from a stock 01-02 and then get the tune right and then go tuning for the injectors?
2) i have headers, i read something about chaning things for the o2 sensors. sorry for not being clear but if you understand what im talking about what does this do and is it necessary. you say only idle is messed up with headers and colder o2's? how should i account for that until i get a wide band?
3) what is the advantage of a MAF less tune? drivability only? so do i just tune for no maf and then i never have to worry about it? weather wont change the way the car runs?
4) im seeing that number 4000 rpms and under and then over that maf takes over. and i read about hitting all the points. can someone explain this in more detail on why 4000 rpm's? and what has to be done?
im just trying to get everything in line so when i get the tuning stuff i can get it pretty good. also, can someone comment about using the graphs and how that is done to help tuning?
1) how do you account for injectors in all of this? i will be getting 36# but i have 28.8 i put in. should i copy the 28.8 table from a stock 01-02 and then get the tune right and then go tuning for the injectors?
2) i have headers, i read something about chaning things for the o2 sensors. sorry for not being clear but if you understand what im talking about what does this do and is it necessary. you say only idle is messed up with headers and colder o2's? how should i account for that until i get a wide band?
3) what is the advantage of a MAF less tune? drivability only? so do i just tune for no maf and then i never have to worry about it? weather wont change the way the car runs?
4) im seeing that number 4000 rpms and under and then over that maf takes over. and i read about hitting all the points. can someone explain this in more detail on why 4000 rpm's? and what has to be done?
im just trying to get everything in line so when i get the tuning stuff i can get it pretty good. also, can someone comment about using the graphs and how that is done to help tuning?
#2 Learn about O2 switching points
#3 Tuning MAFless takes all the BS out of the way when getting the VE back inline. It is your choice to run MAF operation or not. MAF operation helps with correction factors to the VE but if not calibrated properly, can add to confusion. Running MAFless means you are closer to directly running off fueling tables, and you as the tune are the correction factor.
#4 If you want to tune out the VE over 4000 rpms, you need to set PE mode either to whatever single AFR you command for part throttle (13.0 in the writeup) or disable PE mode. If you are tuning the VE, you do not want the MAF to dictate the airflow. That's also another reason why you remove the MAF, that way there is no bias.
Quoting myself:
Originally Posted by txhorns281
The fact that you can remove the MAF is sort of an added bonus that removes the restriction in the intake. If you know what your motor likes airflow-wise, then you can recalibrate the MAF to "See it the same way" if you will and enable MAF operation again if you want. But the airflow your motor likes is always changing (mutlivariable function) and unpredictive, and the airflow that the MAF reports is a sort of single variable function (frequency). Often enough times these two functions do not yield the same answer and are in conflict with each other. The PCM uses a happy medium though or however it's configured to weight a decision. By removing the MAF it's end of discussion, VE wins, by recalibrating the MAF, it's getting the MAF and VE to agree more, but there's always the chance that b/c of load/weather/road conditions the two may not agree and the the PCM has to settle the conflict.
It's like going to court, when the prosecutor doesn't show up, the defendant walks, easy decision. If there's a trial, sometimes the innocent are convicted, sometimes the guilty are set free (haha.. OJ) If the PCM is coerced into making a bad decision, then you don't have a happy motor!
It's like going to court, when the prosecutor doesn't show up, the defendant walks, easy decision. If there's a trial, sometimes the innocent are convicted, sometimes the guilty are set free (haha.. OJ) If the PCM is coerced into making a bad decision, then you don't have a happy motor!
05-27-2008, 07:25 PM
#36
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The SD/A4 thing is not entirely false,if you pull the maf keep in mind some early cars WILL command high line pressure to the tranny ALL THE TIME, which must be fixed or you will smoke the tranny this can be overcome with LS1edit or as the HP tuners thread says for HP users they will fix it for you if you send them your bin file, because the current version cant access everything.
05-27-2008, 09:13 PM
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05-28-2008, 07:34 PM
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05-28-2008, 08:50 PM
#40
There are some parameters in the code that are not currently available in HPTuners then. In EFILive there are three tables where these parameters are adjusted and in HPTuners only one and I don't know which table it is adjusting.
You should post a feature request on the HPTuners forum.
You should post a feature request on the HPTuners forum.
