Redline-Motorsports

iTrader: (3)

I am very familiar with the aftermarket DFI units like BS3 and GEN7. Both of these systems allow for "real time" adjustments for A/F and timing. We are expecting our new steady state dyno in a few weeks and need to get geared up for GEN3 tuning. My questions is in regards to the HPTuners/EFILive's ability to make real time changes to A/F and timing. I know that typically with any "flash" style programming you need to make the changes and then upload them to the PCM which really kind of stinks if you are trying to do timing maps under load where you are tuning for peak cylinder pressure. I thought I remember that when the first EFILive scanner came out that you could make real time changes but they couldn't be saved. Is this still the case?? If so if you do make the changes does the new version have the ability to save it in the hard drive and then import it back into the flash memory later??

I am just trying to figure out the best way to tune on the dyno without constantly making guess's and flashing just to find out you need more adjustments! I think I am spoiled with the aftermarket systems!!

Thanks!

MECHAM

iTrader: (4)

you are spoiled...

1. flash your ecu
2. dyno the car
3. watch what the computer is seeing..timing/af/knock..etc
4. make changes to the file
goto step 1

Redline-Motorsports

iTrader: (3)

We'll I figured as much!

The A/F is not as much the issue as the timing is. Typically we would have the dyno hold the motor at a given load cell and we would keep adding timing until we reached peak torque (which is also peak cylinder pressure). Once it was reached we would load the motor to the next load cell at the same rpm and do it again. Even if we where able to capture the date (as these two systems would) we still would have to keep staking stabs at it until we got it right! Is there no way to make adjustments real time to see if the changes are working?

I thought the scan version allows you to make non permanent changes??

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Yes, Our VCM Suite scanner does allow you to make temporary adjustments to many operating characteristics.

With our scanner it is real easy to adjust timing by an absolute number, or either add or subract to your PCM calculated value, you can also command the AFR as well.

There are transmission controls, fan controls, crank case learn, idle tests, etc. etc.. Quite a lot of control.

- Keith, HP Tuners

daveb

I read a thread on efi discussing this today.

EFI V5 had real time capability but was pulled in V6, It is planned to be put back in a release soon.

See this post

http://www.efilive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1507

JNorris

iTrader: (4)

But EFILive V7 currently supports temporary adjustments such as idle, AFR, fans, and a host of others.

John

Redline-Motorsports

iTrader: (3)

Keith, when is this version available? Also if I buy it for a limited seat use, can it be upgraded to an unlimited use after purchase?

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

It's available right now. We have product in stock and ready to ship. Orders typically ship out the following business day from Chicago, IL so you should have it within a couple of days.

Yes, you can upgrade at any time you like. It is a simple software upgrade.

- Keith, HP Tuners

Iggi

Control is good... didn't know you could make temp changes.

Bink

9D9LS - Contact Delco (Dick) on the EFILive boards. I believe he's the owner of Dick's Electronics. He and his son have developed a Real-Time LS1 Tuner. It's realtime and permanent adjustments to all parameters. They'll need your intended PCM for calibration ...then you hook it up and go! I'm not sure how they've advanced as far as portability (car to car).
Hope this helps some.

Nox

efilive 7.2 will be real time. should be available in 2 months.

Tomcat

Delco on the LS1 forums and on the EFILive forums is not Richard(Dick) Wakeling from Dicks Electronics .

Dicks Electronics are developing a RT LS1 tuner - the interesting thing is I believe they have just bought Efilive Flashscan to use

slow

iTrader: (7)

This real time tuner, is it ready to ship? Anybody know the price of it?

Tomcat

About 20k from all the rumours I have heard and not yet ready

slow

iTrader: (7)

nevermind... I'll live with the 30 second flash time.

Ryan

gameover

As an example, I have seen a few serious engine dyno operators use our software for spark and fuel tuning for speed density (MAFless and 2bar) in a real time manner.

It's pretty easy to use the spark and AFR real-time controls to map a "load-points" optimum (maximum torque) settings. No doubt experience helps when trying to work out the optimum and safe balance between fuel and spark and exhaust temps etc. (but thats why a tuner gets paid right?). I anycase if your running closed loop, commanded AFR is not something you have control over until you get into PE mode (so 3/4 of your fuel decision is made for you).

Generally, most will choose to step thru a single columns (RPM) load points or a few columns, then paste the final spark histo numbers directly into the spark tables and then use the AFR % Error histo to correct the VE table once the optimum commanded AFR has been set into the PE table (for the higher end of the load values). From this you can see another thing you have to think about is "when" to go into PE mode and when not to (again something guided by the tuners experience on the balance of AFR/timing/temps).

Serious engine dyno operators (especially FI folks) will develop the spark tables at the minimum intake air temp they can achieve and then purposely step up the intake air temp and map out the IAT retard tables. This can take just as long as the spark tables alone.

It takes time and patience, stepping through the load points is by far the great time consumer, not the process of flashing in the few cal changes (most don't flash until they finish all the load points anyway). Maybe a half dozen times at 30 secs each over a period of a few days. (OEM's take weeks/months to do this stuff).

And as for chassis dyno or street tuning, most tuners can tune a car in the time it takes to swap out the PCM (twice).

Hope that helps,

Chris...