fnbrowning

Hello!

I recently had my T/A tuned by a professional tuner and validated on a Dynojet. I thought the final HP & Torque numbers were a bit lower than I expected.
The best pull netted 373.48 HP & 365 max torque on the dyno @ 87 degrees F & 24% RH.
I have some of the basic parameters the tuner set:

PCM Rev Limit set to 6600rpm, Shift @ 5800rpm Premium Fuel Only, prefer Mobil 93 octane.

A/F ratio 13.1 to 5000rpm, 12.8 above 5000rpm. Timing: 24 ° Total Timing

Coolant fan temperatures: Primary ON @ 200° OFF @ 190°
Secondary ON @ 210° OFF @ 200°

IMPORTANT:
The tuner knew that I don't bracket race, but do high speed driving and top speed runs instead. He said that's why he kept the A/F ratio and timing conservative. He said the 12.8 A/F was to keep the combustion chambers cooler during prolonged high rpm operation.

Would anyone like to comment on the tune? I could send the LS1edit file to anyone wanting a closer look. I don't expect you to work on on the file!

Just for reference, here is some information on the car:

Rick@Synergy

iTrader: (5)

where are you located at?

Rick

Tiger2o69

iTrader: (16)

I dont know very much but shouldnt he utilize the 180 stat w/ better on times.. And isnt it suppose to go rich then lean not the other way around...

fnbrowning

Missouri

Any comments on the tune?

Thanks!

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

doesnt sound bad, i would think with the stock heads u could run about 27* of timing and be ok if u still make power with more timing

fnbrowning

I could log an AutoTap session if anyone thinks that will help.
I'm a neo with AT, so tell me what parameters I should log, and I will comply.

thanks!

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

i cant read autotap but maybe someone else on here can help

Rick@Synergy

iTrader: (5)

Here is what I have to say, and maybe this helps out.

First off, where is the tuner taking the A/F reading from?

Second, when someone says 24* of timing, that doesnt mean anything to me. I would simply ask, where? The table as a whole will never run the same amount of timing. Sometimes things change and you have more timing on the bottom end of the RPM scale then as it ramps up, you might want alittle less. Every cam is different.

So if you can help by answer some of these things, maybe that would help more.

Rick

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

I replied to you on LS2. He is getting me the autotap file and hopefully his tune. I'll post up a summary when I get them.

fnbrowning

Okay, I've got some data for your perusal.
I've tried to format it for viewing on a ubb the best that I know how!

This is an acceleration log from a rolling start to 100mph. I shifted to 4th then stayed in 4th. There is no Knock Retard data because none was logged.

I can send an Excel .csv file if that helps.



(MPH)(RPM) Advance(Deg) Temp(F)MAP(kPA)O2Bank 1/#1(mV)O2Bank 2#1(mV)LTFTrim Bank 1(%)LTFTrim Bank 2
6 - - 1398 - - 34 - - 81 - - 65 - - 835 - - 785 - - 7.8 - - 6.3
11 - - 1454 - - 29 - - 81 - - 77 - - 835 - - 165 - - 7.8 - - 6.3
14 - - 1928 - - 29 - - 79 - - 81 - - 810 - - 870 - - 9.4 - - 10.9
17 - - 2374 - - 32 - - 79 - - 81 - - 65 - - 90 - - 9.4 - - 10.9
21 - - 2834 - - 33.5 - - 79 - - 81 - - 825 - - 830 - - 9.4 - - 8.6
25 - - 3217 - - 35 - - 79 - - 75 - - 745 - - 100 - - 8.6 - - 7.8
31 - - 2342 - - 39.5 - - 329 - - 61 - - 860 - - 885 - - 9.4 - - 10.9
31 - - 2720 - - 16 - - 79 - - 97 - - 895 - - 930 - - 8.6 - - 7.8
35 - - 3045 - - 22.5 - - 79 - - 97 - - 910 - - 905 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
39 - - 3392 - - 23.5 - - 79 - - 96 - - 905 - - 890 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
43 - - 3757 - - 23 - - 79 - - 95 - - 895 - - 905 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
48 - - 4111 - - 23.5 - - 79 - - 93 - - 895 - - 910 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
52 - - 4438 - - 25 - - 77 - - 92 - - 915 - - 925 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
55 - - 4350 - - 26.5 - - 77 - - 90 - - 925 - - 935 - - 8.6 - - 11.7
55 - - 3404 - - 10 - - 77 - - 15 - - 25 - - 30 - - 8.6 - - 11.7
57 - - 3535 - - 16 - - 77 - - 97 - - 910 - - 940 - - 9.4 - - 7.8
60 - - 3712 - - 15.5 - - 77 - - 98 - - 905 - - 915 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
63 - - 3900 - - 21 - - 77 - - 98 - - 895 - - 920 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
66 - - 4085 - - 21.5 - - 77 - - 97 - - 905 - - 920 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
70 - - 4264 - - 22 - - 77 - - 98 - - 900 - - 920 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
73 - - 4446 - - 23 - - 77 - - 97 - - 905 - - 925 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
75 - - 4648 - - 23.5 - - 77 - - 97 - - 905 - - 930 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
79 - - 4849 - - 23.5 - - 75 - - 97 - - 905 - - 910 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
83 - - 5022 - - 24 - - 75 - - 96 - - 890 - - 935 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
84 - - 4244 - - 27.5 - - 75 - - 28 - - 940 - - 945 - - 8.6 - - 11.7
85 - - 3964 - - 13 - - 75 - - 98 - - 920 - - 935 - - 8.6 - - 7
86 - - 4055 - - 21.5 - - 75 - - 98 - - 900 - - 935 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
92 - - 4298 - - 22 - - 75 - - 99 - - 900 - - 930 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
94 - - 4388 - - 23 - - 75 - - 98 - - 905 - - 930 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
96 - - 4490 - - 23 - - 75 - - 98 - - 900 - - 920 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
98 - - 4598 - - 23.5 - - 75 - - 98 - - 890 - - 915 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
101 - - 4715 - - 23.5 - - 75 - - 97 - - 890 - - 915 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
103 - - 4798 - - 23.5 - - 75 - - 97 - - 905 - - 920 - - 3.9 - - 4.7
102 - - 4078 - - 34 - - 75 - - 17 - - 835 - - 735 - - 0.8 - - 0.8

fnbrowning

Okay, I've got some More data for your perusal.

This is a steady cruise log. There is no Knock Retard data because none was logged.

I can send an Excel .csv file if that helps.



(MPH)(RPM) Advance(Deg) Temp(F)MAP(kPA)O2Bank 1/#1(mV)O2Bank 2#1(mV)LTFTrim Bank 1(%)LTFTrim Bank 2
71 - - 1656 - - 38 - - 81 - - 27 - - 15.4 - - 52 - - 220 - - 700 - - - - 10.2 - - 6
71 - - 1661 - - 38 - - 81 - - 27 - - 15.4 - - 52 - - 820 - - 865 - - - - 10.2 - - 6.3
71 - - 1659 - - 38 - - 81 - - 27 - - 15.4 - - 52 - - 810 - - 65 - - - - 10.2 - - 6.3
71 - - 1658 - - 37.5 - - 81 - - 27 - - 15.4 - - 52 - - 80 - - 285 - - - - 10.2 - - 6.3
71 - - 1658 - - 38 - - 81 - - 27 - - 15.4 - - 52 - - 735 - - 815 - - - - 10.2 - - 6.3
71 - - 1661 - - 38 - - 81 - - 27 - - 15.4 - - 52 - - 825 - - 830 - - - - 10.2 - - 6.3

Anyone that would like to see my edit file, or have the complete copies of the .csv files may drop me a PM with your email addy.

Thanks for everyone's help!

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

for one you are running lean, those fuel trims should be zeroed out at WOT, the car is compensating by adding fuel, and it semes like the fuel added puts you where you want to be. would prob want to increase the PE by 5% and see waht that does, the timing seems a little low wot as well.

Rick@Synergy

iTrader: (5)

I agree. I think you need to consentrate more on all your part thorttle tuning before you start worrying about your WOT tuning. Your car is not even close to being adjusted to where all the tables seem to be working together. The goal for any car is to have the MAF, the VE, and everything else as close as possible that way when any change is made while driving, all tables are correct and can respond together. This is where a smooth car comes through. It would also help to see you logging STFT's as well with you LTFT's. Those are just as important.

Rick

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

your part throttle trims should be right at 0 as well, maybe slightly negative. rick is right we need stft's too, not really for wot but for part throttle, looks like you have some work to do, ve table is pretty far out from the looks of these numbers, and prob the maf as well. once you get that right you should beable to accurately adjust the ve and give the car some decent timing.

Tech

iTrader: (1)

Your fueling is way out of whack. LTFTs should not be positive in PE. After correcting that, your WOT fueling is going to be jacked up. Sounds like you need some street time and then you have to go back to the dynojet. 12.8 - 13.0 AFR is the norm.

TPS% would also be helpful.

Rick@Synergy

iTrader: (5)

If you are taking the A/F from the wideband in the header like you should, then I Would even shoot for an A/F of 13.4-13.6. Right there is where you will make more power as well. But like everyone said, first work on your part throttle because without part throttle, you have no WOT.

Tech

iTrader: (1)

I don't think Ron is looking to make max power with the AFR. He says he does a lot of high load/high rpm driving. Cylinder pressures and heat are through the roof under those condition. And as you guys know, fuel is a significant cooling agent for those cylinders. There is a discussion in the Internals section about #7 and #8 getting 'too much' air at high speeds and causing them to heat up and eventually melt something. I'd keep it around 12.2-12.5 to help preserve the engine if he's really going to be doing a lot of high speed (non competative) driving.

Rick@Synergy

iTrader: (5)

Its not so much about max power as it is correct amount of fuel in the chamber. I understand most people think that by adding fuel it will cool it, but under those kinds of lower A/F ratios, you will lose more than to gain. Too much fuel will cause you to knock also. Plus when I do most of my tuning, its on a loaded dyno where I can put more load on the car than the street or driver will ever see. Leaner A/F work fine. You just dont need to use as much timing.

Rick