Quick question, please help
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 364
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From: Newark,DE
Quick question, please help Hey guys,
First off I have searched this in and out and even went to EFI lives forum without getting any results.
I am new to tuning and I have been playing with Live for a couple months.
I cannot get any answers on how to adjust the spark map. The car still has the factory tune as far as fuel and spark go. What map do you change to add the additional 3-4* to, ECT? This seems more constant than IAT. I've read somewhere to copy High octane to Low and reduce by 2*. Do you need to do this? I don't need to touch the base spark map right?
I think I'm on track with the fuel changes correct me if I'm wrong.
I am currently logging 11.8-12.5 from 4000-6000. Varies greatly.
I just reduced the PE vs. RPM in that range to 1.15 to get a commanded AFR of 12.9 or what ever it equates to. (Its getting late).
Thats it. Is there anything that I am missing?
Thanks in advance,
First off I have searched this in and out and even went to EFI lives forum without getting any results.
I am new to tuning and I have been playing with Live for a couple months.
I cannot get any answers on how to adjust the spark map. The car still has the factory tune as far as fuel and spark go. What map do you change to add the additional 3-4* to, ECT? This seems more constant than IAT. I've read somewhere to copy High octane to Low and reduce by 2*. Do you need to do this? I don't need to touch the base spark map right?
I think I'm on track with the fuel changes correct me if I'm wrong.
I am currently logging 11.8-12.5 from 4000-6000. Varies greatly.
I just reduced the PE vs. RPM in that range to 1.15 to get a commanded AFR of 12.9 or what ever it equates to. (Its getting late).
Thats it. Is there anything that I am missing?
Thanks in advance,
TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,336
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From: Fat Chance Hotel
If you want to modify timing, change the high octane table. I would just zero out the ECT table and work on the IAC table to accomodate for heat. Then you can copy the high octane table to the low octane table -2*. Keep in mind that spark changes will be dependant on the octane gas you're running and may even modify your fuel calibrations slightly. In other words, just because you're done, doesn't mean you're done. 
Originally Posted by technical
If you want to modify timing, change the high octane table. I would just zero out the ECT table and work on the IAC table to accomodate for heat. Then you can copy the high octane table to the low octane table -2*. Keep in mind that spark changes will be dependant on the octane gas you're running and may even modify your fuel calibrations slightly. In other words, just because you're done, doesn't mean you're done.
Bill
Personally, I copied the high and low to Excel and figured out the difference between the two. It's nowhere near 2* straight across the board, but it's up to you what you want to do. Next, I made changes to the high-octane table and copied it to the low. Then, I pasted (as an offset) the difference between the stock high/low to the low that I figured out in the first step. That way, I have the same ASPARK swing the stock tables had.
Before you change your spark map for WOT, log a couple of runs. Make sure to log DYNCYLAIR_DMA, RPM, SPARKADV, and TP%. Then, use your filters to find where your WOT spark lies. That's how I figured out what part of the table to modify.
Whether you're figuring out what to log or what to map, you have to ask yourself the same question. "How is the table setup in the tuning software?" If you go to the high-octane spark table, it says what PIDs on the top and the left...and you know you're dealing with spark. So, you need those for sure. Then, set up your maps to replicate the table in the tuning software. G/L
Before you change your spark map for WOT, log a couple of runs. Make sure to log DYNCYLAIR_DMA, RPM, SPARKADV, and TP%. Then, use your filters to find where your WOT spark lies. That's how I figured out what part of the table to modify.
Whether you're figuring out what to log or what to map, you have to ask yourself the same question. "How is the table setup in the tuning software?" If you go to the high-octane spark table, it says what PIDs on the top and the left...and you know you're dealing with spark. So, you need those for sure. Then, set up your maps to replicate the table in the tuning software. G/L
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 364
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From: Newark,DE
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Personally, I copied the high and low to Excel and figured out the difference between the two. It's nowhere near 2* straight across the board, but it's up to you what you want to do. Next, I made changes to the high-octane table and copied it to the low. Then, I pasted (as an offset) the difference between the stock high/low to the low that I figured out in the first step. That way, I have the same ASPARK swing the stock tables had.
Before you change your spark map for WOT, log a couple of runs. Make sure to log DYNCYLAIR_DMA, RPM, SPARKADV, and TP%. Then, use your filters to find where your WOT spark lies. That's how I figured out what part of the table to modify.
Whether you're figuring out what to log or what to map, you have to ask yourself the same question. "How is the table setup in the tuning software?" If you go to the high-octane spark table, it says what PIDs on the top and the left...and you know you're dealing with spark. So, you need those for sure. Then, set up your maps to replicate the table in the tuning software. G/L
Before you change your spark map for WOT, log a couple of runs. Make sure to log DYNCYLAIR_DMA, RPM, SPARKADV, and TP%. Then, use your filters to find where your WOT spark lies. That's how I figured out what part of the table to modify.
Whether you're figuring out what to log or what to map, you have to ask yourself the same question. "How is the table setup in the tuning software?" If you go to the high-octane spark table, it says what PIDs on the top and the left...and you know you're dealing with spark. So, you need those for sure. Then, set up your maps to replicate the table in the tuning software. G/L
I read in GMHTP that you can't add timing to the High octane spark map because the pcm can add up to 4* to that from the PE table based on the EQ ratio. So if that was true than I was thinking that all I need to do is find where the 4* was coming from and bump that to 8*. My base timing is 19* plus the 4* the pcm adds puts me at 23* which is exactly what I logged in a 4th gear pull to redline. peaked at about 25* with no KR.
Anyways. I highlighted the section in the log for the 4th gear pull and then cross referenced it to the tuning software to find what cells I was hitting and nowhere could I find where the 4* was coming into play.
Anymore insite that you can give is greatly appriciated.
Thanks,
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TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Fat Chance Hotel
Originally Posted by dws6
I am not sure how to use the filters. Any sugestions? I am going to have to play with that one. I need the filter to find the additive spark values?
.....
Anymore insite that you can give is greatly appriciated.
Thanks,
.....
Anymore insite that you can give is greatly appriciated.
Thanks,
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Originally Posted by dws6
I am not sure how to use the filters. Any sugestions? I am going to have to play with that one. I need the filter to find the additive spark values?
I read in GMHTP that you can't add timing to the High octane spark map because the pcm can add up to 4* to that from the PE table based on the EQ ratio. So if that was true than I was thinking that all I need to do is find where the 4* was coming from and bump that to 8*. My base timing is 19* plus the 4* the pcm adds puts me at 23* which is exactly what I logged in a 4th gear pull to redline. peaked at about 25* with no KR.
Anyways. I highlighted the section in the log for the 4th gear pull and then cross referenced it to the tuning software to find what cells I was hitting and nowhere could I find where the 4* was coming into play.
Anymore insite that you can give is greatly appriciated.
Thanks,
I read in GMHTP that you can't add timing to the High octane spark map because the pcm can add up to 4* to that from the PE table based on the EQ ratio. So if that was true than I was thinking that all I need to do is find where the 4* was coming from and bump that to 8*. My base timing is 19* plus the 4* the pcm adds puts me at 23* which is exactly what I logged in a 4th gear pull to redline. peaked at about 25* with no KR.
Anyways. I highlighted the section in the log for the 4th gear pull and then cross referenced it to the tuning software to find what cells I was hitting and nowhere could I find where the 4* was coming into play.
Anymore insite that you can give is greatly appriciated.
Thanks,
TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,336
Likes: 0
From: Fat Chance Hotel
Originally Posted by dws6
I read in GMHTP that you can't add timing to the High octane spark map because the pcm can add up to 4* to that from the PE table based on the EQ ratio.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 364
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From: Newark,DE
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
That's odd...I've never noticed that extra 4* and I'm confused on how the PE table and EQ values (which is what the PCM uses for fueling) can add spark??? I upped the high-octane spark incrementally from about 4,000 up to redline and it worked just fine for me.
I am really sorry for all the questions that may seem simple to you guys but I really can't find answers anywhere.
Thanks again for all your help, I would be COMPLETELY lost (instead of just lost) without you guys.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 364
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From: Newark,DE
Originally Posted by technical
In EFILive you'll want to setup a map for the PIDs in question. This will show you where your boundaries are for the area of the spark map the respresents WOT.
Your best bet is to look through all of your spark tables and take a minute to truely understand what each one does. There are some general descriptions that come with each table. The next step I would take is to go through the tables again and list the PIDs used to determine each table. For example, the high-octane maps spark advance (data in all of the cells) against DYNCYLAIR_DMA and RPM. There's 3 PIDs. Figure out what the rest are and log them. Take note of intake temps and engine coolant temps as they have a factor in most of those tables. Trial and error doesn't have to be bad. It may be time consuming and seem tedious. But, if you take the time to think about it and only make small changes, you'll greatly reduce the chances of something bad happening. At least, that's the reason I believe some people screw their cars up. They read something on here as if it were the be-all-end-all of tuning and change their tune without knowing what they're really doing.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
From: Newark,DE
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Your best bet is to look through all of your spark tables and take a minute to truely understand what each one does. There are some general descriptions that come with each table. The next step I would take is to go through the tables again and list the PIDs used to determine each table. For example, the high-octane maps spark advance (data in all of the cells) against DYNCYLAIR_DMA and RPM. There's 3 PIDs. Figure out what the rest are and log them. Take note of intake temps and engine coolant temps as they have a factor in most of those tables. Trial and error doesn't have to be bad. It may be time consuming and seem tedious. But, if you take the time to think about it and only make small changes, you'll greatly reduce the chances of something bad happening. At least, that's the reason I believe some people screw their cars up. They read something on here as if it were the be-all-end-all of tuning and change their tune without knowing what they're really doing.
Thanks again for your help.