HP Tuners and Superchips partnership
10-01-2005, 05:15 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by 94SS
Just what everyone needs HP Tuners on a hand held programmer. I can't imagine that is what the market is dying for there is so much Chevrolet stuff already.
I remember the SCT Ford stuff was real cutting edge with all the publicity they were getting with all the advertising it seemed real good at first now there customer service has degraded, electronics don't work when they send them out but there is not alot of competition on the Ford side.
I remember the SCT Ford stuff was real cutting edge with all the publicity they were getting with all the advertising it seemed real good at first now there customer service has degraded, electronics don't work when they send them out but there is not alot of competition on the Ford side.
Also, not exactly sure what you mean by "HP Tuners on a handheld" ? Our software runs on a PC.
Chris...
10-01-2005, 05:16 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by 98A4LS1
Congrats! Is 2.0 still going to be a free upgrade for those of us who purchased 1.x within the time frame previously posted?
Thanks
Chris
Thanks
Chris
10-01-2005, 08:18 AM
#23
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I'll be interested to see how this all unrolls, especially
what licensing turns out to be and how we current
users relate to the installed base of SuperChips
handhelds out there. The dealership speed shop I
used to frequent, was pushing the SuperChips tuner
at all of their customers, and there's a large local
base of those (handy that Sanford is also less than
an hour's drive, should interesting things go on there).
So I'm wondering what the upshot is, like whether
we can throw tunes into vehicles currently not
personally licensed if the target vehicle has a valid
SuperChips tuner (kind of like a paid-for cable one
might think), or whether such a broader access might
be a reasonably priced add-on "feature" license, and
so on. I've been picking up HPT licenses onesy-twosey
to cover my mechanic's action but tapping the local
SuperChips pool would be a nice jump-up for him (not
that I need the extra demands on my leisure time, or
my wallet).
So... ???
what licensing turns out to be and how we current
users relate to the installed base of SuperChips
handhelds out there. The dealership speed shop I
used to frequent, was pushing the SuperChips tuner
at all of their customers, and there's a large local
base of those (handy that Sanford is also less than
an hour's drive, should interesting things go on there).
So I'm wondering what the upshot is, like whether
we can throw tunes into vehicles currently not
personally licensed if the target vehicle has a valid
SuperChips tuner (kind of like a paid-for cable one
might think), or whether such a broader access might
be a reasonably priced add-on "feature" license, and
so on. I've been picking up HPT licenses onesy-twosey
to cover my mechanic's action but tapping the local
SuperChips pool would be a nice jump-up for him (not
that I need the extra demands on my leisure time, or
my wallet).
So... ???
10-01-2005, 08:31 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by jimmyblue
I'll be interested to see how this all unrolls, especially
what licensing turns out to be and how we current
users relate to the installed base of SuperChips
handhelds out there. The dealership speed shop I
used to frequent, was pushing the SuperChips tuner
at all of their customers, and there's a large local
base of those (handy that Sanford is also less than
an hour's drive, should interesting things go on there).
So I'm wondering what the upshot is, like whether
we can throw tunes into vehicles currently not
personally licensed if the target vehicle has a valid
SuperChips tuner (kind of like a paid-for cable one
might think), or whether such a broader access might
be a reasonably priced add-on "feature" license, and
so on. I've been picking up HPT licenses onesy-twosey
to cover my mechanic's action but tapping the local
SuperChips pool would be a nice jump-up for him (not
that I need the extra demands on my leisure time, or
my wallet).
So... ???
what licensing turns out to be and how we current
users relate to the installed base of SuperChips
handhelds out there. The dealership speed shop I
used to frequent, was pushing the SuperChips tuner
at all of their customers, and there's a large local
base of those (handy that Sanford is also less than
an hour's drive, should interesting things go on there).
So I'm wondering what the upshot is, like whether
we can throw tunes into vehicles currently not
personally licensed if the target vehicle has a valid
SuperChips tuner (kind of like a paid-for cable one
might think), or whether such a broader access might
be a reasonably priced add-on "feature" license, and
so on. I've been picking up HPT licenses onesy-twosey
to cover my mechanic's action but tapping the local
SuperChips pool would be a nice jump-up for him (not
that I need the extra demands on my leisure time, or
my wallet).
So... ???
10-01-2005, 09:11 AM
#25
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I have very mixed feeling about this. HPTuners has had great customer service, a great product, always working to improve and will try to add customer requested features when possible.
My personal experience with Superchips has not been as good. Many years ago I had their Mircotuner for my 1999 Firehawk. Now that I tune cars myself, I have a better understanding why they had trouble with the tune and I am not so critical of that part of it today. But their customer service or the lack of it has left a bad taste in my mouth that is hard to get rid of. Granted that has been about 5 years ago and I hope things are better today. But I am afraid that is what you get sometimes with dealing with a big company.
I will have to trust the guys at HPTuners to look out for their customers and protect the things that have made them great.
My personal experience with Superchips has not been as good. Many years ago I had their Mircotuner for my 1999 Firehawk. Now that I tune cars myself, I have a better understanding why they had trouble with the tune and I am not so critical of that part of it today. But their customer service or the lack of it has left a bad taste in my mouth that is hard to get rid of. Granted that has been about 5 years ago and I hope things are better today. But I am afraid that is what you get sometimes with dealing with a big company.
I will have to trust the guys at HPTuners to look out for their customers and protect the things that have made them great.
10-01-2005, 09:28 AM
#26
It will be interesting on how the unencrypted bin files and very loose licensing structure from hp will work with the vin locking, we don't share files approach of superchips inc. I can't see a company who moves 10's of millions of dollars in tuners liking the open policy to tune all of X vehicle for $500 
Ryan
Ryan
10-01-2005, 10:39 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by slow
It will be interesting on how the unencrypted bin files and very loose licensing structure from hp will work with the vin locking, we don't share files approach of superchips inc. I can't see a company who moves 10's of millions of dollars in tuners liking the open policy to tune all of X vehicle for $500
Ryan
Ryan
IMHO this doesn't look very good for the home tuner/small volume shop. I have seen this in the past where another vendor of handheld tuners bought out a software package for Ford's (that was an open platform) and locked the software into their handheld. Basically now if you use this particular piece of Ford software you have to use a new handheld tuner for every vehicle or PCM that you tune.
If this is indeeed the path HP Tuners/Superchips is going to pursue I suspect that the HP Tuners part will suffer tremendously. There is a need in the market for an open platform tuning software, and there are other options already. You are just going to make those other options all the more attractive to your potential buyers who don't want to buy a handheld as a delivery device for the tunes.
10-01-2005, 11:10 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Geoff
IMHO this doesn't look very good for the home tuner/small volume shop. I have seen this in the past where another vendor of handheld tuners bought out a software package for Ford's (that was an open platform) and locked the software into their handheld. Basically now if you use this particular piece of Ford software you have to use a new handheld tuner for every vehicle or PCM that you tune.
If this is indeeed the path HP Tuners/Superchips is going to pursue I suspect that the HP Tuners part will suffer tremendously. There is a need in the market for an open platform tuning software, and there are other options already. You are just going to make those other options all the more attractive to your potential buyers who don't want to buy a handheld as a delivery device for the tunes.
If this is indeeed the path HP Tuners/Superchips is going to pursue I suspect that the HP Tuners part will suffer tremendously. There is a need in the market for an open platform tuning software, and there are other options already. You are just going to make those other options all the more attractive to your potential buyers who don't want to buy a handheld as a delivery device for the tunes.
Huh??
What do hand helds have to do with VCM Suite or our hardware?
Our USB interface now covers GM. Ford, Dodge protocols. You also assume we have not modified or expanded or types of licensing Geoff.
In fact, we have spent the last year working on a licensing structure that would "fit" all end users.
Maybe I am reading your response wrong, but the intent here is to enhance each parties product with seamless integration, not delete them.
Make sure you are going to SEMA this year. I'm sure you will be impressed on how all of this plays together.
Ken
10-01-2005, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Super Sport X2
Huh??
What do hand helds have to do with VCM Suite or our hardware?
Our USB interface now covers GM. Ford, Dodge protocols. You also assume we have not modified or expanded or types of licensing Geoff.
In fact, we have spent the last year working on a licensing structure that would "fit" all end users.
Maybe I am reading your response wrong, but the intent here is to enhance each parties product with seamless integration, not delete them.
Make sure you are going to SEMA this year. I'm sure you will be impressed on how all of this plays together.
Ken
What do hand helds have to do with VCM Suite or our hardware?
Our USB interface now covers GM. Ford, Dodge protocols. You also assume we have not modified or expanded or types of licensing Geoff.
In fact, we have spent the last year working on a licensing structure that would "fit" all end users.
Maybe I am reading your response wrong, but the intent here is to enhance each parties product with seamless integration, not delete them.
Make sure you are going to SEMA this year. I'm sure you will be impressed on how all of this plays together.
Ken
Relax dude. I am not trying to flame anyone or any company. All I am saying is that if you look at past history on where this type of thing has gone: Well HPTuners has a decent product that has been very good for the LS1 community. Superchips has done NOTHING of any substance for the LS1 community. I am sure many here will back me on that statement. My main concern is that if look at Superchips (big company with a lot of money) vs. HPTuners (smaller company) Superchips is in the business of selling programmers. In the LS1 market you guys (along with LT1 Edit and EFI Live) are probably crushing the bulk of their programmer sales. Why would anyone want a handheld unit when they can buy PC based software with so much more functionality? From Superchips perspective it makes perfect sense: Buy out (relative term) the chief obstacle to their programmer sales and leverage it to sell more handheld programmers. I am sure whatever you guys bring to the table will do nothing but help Superchips. You have a good piece of software that is probably superior to anything Superchips is currently using and will help to enhance the functionality of their programmers. I also think it will help you guys in the area of selling more software to other brands of vehicles. I STILL stand by my statement that this isn't good for the average user of your product, as it stands today, if they are stuck having to buy a programmer as a delivery device for every vehicle that they tune. If that is indeed how it is going to happen then I think other vendors with an open platform will take your current market.
I don't mean any of this as a flame, just observations from someone who has been in this business for a while and seen quite a few people come and go.
10-01-2005, 11:52 AM
#31
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Money drives innovation, if a company isn't making money why should they improve the product?
Perfect example, LS1 edit, no support promised or provided. You get unlimited flashes, but if you can't tune the car what value is that?
Perfect example, LS1 edit, no support promised or provided. You get unlimited flashes, but if you can't tune the car what value is that?
10-01-2005, 12:46 PM
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Geoff, when you speak of Superchips, you must now consider their parent company MSD. It is their guys running the show at Superchips. The guys at Superchips are an awesome group. All of this played heavily on our decision to work together.
While this announcement may be new to the community, the inner workings on the agreement were ironed out months ago.
While I appreciate your perspective, I can assure you your worries about HPT, Superchips and its customers will not come into play. As Halloween is just around the corner, it would probably frighten most people to learn how much was spent in legal between both parties to protect the interest of both themselves and their customers.
I still don't understand where you are coming up with customers being stuck having to buy a programmer as a delivery device for every vehicle that they tune. I have already mentioned the VCM Suite model with it's hardware is not going away.
Ken
While this announcement may be new to the community, the inner workings on the agreement were ironed out months ago.
While I appreciate your perspective, I can assure you your worries about HPT, Superchips and its customers will not come into play. As Halloween is just around the corner, it would probably frighten most people to learn how much was spent in legal between both parties to protect the interest of both themselves and their customers.
I still don't understand where you are coming up with customers being stuck having to buy a programmer as a delivery device for every vehicle that they tune. I have already mentioned the VCM Suite model with it's hardware is not going away.
Ken
10-01-2005, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Super Sport X2
I still don't understand where you are coming up with customers being stuck having to buy a programmer as a delivery device for every vehicle that they tune. I have already mentioned the VCM Suite model with it's hardware is not going away.
Ken
Ken
Ken,
I am going by past experience with other vendors. From the perspective of Superchips it only makes sense to do it that way. Superchips, DiabloSport, etc. all have approached me and I am sure other vendors with 'software' to allow me to do custom tuning. I have already seen it happen with one large handheld company that bought out a certain Ford software and then locked it into their programmer. The catch to all of this has been that the delivery device is a handheld programmer that they sell. In other words every time I do a tune I have to sell the customer a programmer. My problem with all of this is in all honesty most of the tunes that I get are hard. Usually cars with really big cams or wild forced induction that nobody else either wants to tune or can. If I charge $550.00 to $650.00 to do this tune and the customer comes back once or twice to make changes...I really don't make much money if you account for my time. Now if I have to add $300 or more for a handheld, that can raise the price of a custom tune to a level that a lot of potential customers won't swallow. I CAN'T eat the price of the handheld and the customer won't eat the price. As a result of this any software that is locked into a handheld holds MUCH LESS value to me as a tuner than an open platform. I would only use that type of tuning software if there were no other option available. Fortunately in the LS1 and LS2 world we do have options.
If you guys aren't planning this then good, but if you are then I what I predict is that in the future your LS1 market share will be given to your competitors. Please take all of this commentary in the spirit in which it was intended: It's your business and you will do with it as you see fit. I am a consumer of these products and I am just giving you feedback as a potential customer as I am sure other's would as well.
10-01-2005, 01:53 PM
#37
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When did MSD take over Superchips, or have they always been in control?
Geoff, I understand where you are coming from, and you have raised some valid questions.
Geoff, I understand where you are coming from, and you have raised some valid questions.
10-01-2005, 02:12 PM
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Ford guys have been dealing with handheld flashers (and chips) for a long time, its not bad at all, it actually works out better for the customer in the end.
The customer now has a piece of hardware that goes with their tune, if you look at some of the other products out there the handheld flasher will allow the customer to read and clear codes, datalog dozens of OBD2 parameters, and the tuner can email the customer tunes, for the customer to load right onto the handheld device and then onto the vehicle.
If I was an end user I would definitely want a flasher, something to physically go with the big chunk of change I just spent for a tune.
The customer now has a piece of hardware that goes with their tune, if you look at some of the other products out there the handheld flasher will allow the customer to read and clear codes, datalog dozens of OBD2 parameters, and the tuner can email the customer tunes, for the customer to load right onto the handheld device and then onto the vehicle.
If I was an end user I would definitely want a flasher, something to physically go with the big chunk of change I just spent for a tune.
10-01-2005, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff
If you guys aren't planning this then good, but if you are then I what I predict is that in the future your LS1 market share will be given to your competitors. Please take all of this commentary in the spirit in which it was intended: It's your business and you will do with it as you see fit. I am a consumer of these products and I am just giving you feedback as a potential customer as I am sure other's would as well.
Chris...