Yup, I read that before, and you know what? I have seen it, first hand, drop 60HP from a car. I saw it on a Dyno!

Ryan K <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

 

Looking for something else in the Shop Manual and started to read this.

"The PCM also shuts off the fuel to certain injectors to reduce the engine power In the case of an abusive maneuver". They consider "abusive" manuvers: severe downshifts/upshifts - Heavy acceleration from a standing start - Abnormally high IAC counts - "rocking the car" from gear to gear (I guess as in trying to get unstuck!)

Fuel Reduction:
"The PCM disables the fuel injectors for cylinders 1, 4, 6, and 7"

So, not only do we take a hit in timing for a split second but we also loose fuel on 1/2 cylinders. Further explains to me why some people have seen some really good gains after removal.

Thanks LS1 Edit! <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

 

Our tracks open next week, can't wait to test some of this out!!

Mark

 

yea baby! am i glad i got programming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

rents wouldnt let me go racing today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> . gonna have to try for next sunday.

 

I see this all the time too on my car with my minimum mods. Anytime it's cold outside and I hit it from a stand still, the tires break loose all the way through first, it hits the rev limiter, and then it does the worst shift you could ever imagine and then I just start slowing down big time and loose all my power. If I floor it at 25, the shift is fine and it doesn't hit the rev limiter but from a stop, it hits it and does a terrible shift and looses all power. I deffinatly need torque management taken out
chris

 

Big time on the 1-2 shift. Car picks up again in 2nd and slams you back in the seat as the motor picks up. <img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> TM

 

My 01' silverado had bigtime TQM problems. I have a PI Converter with a 3 washer TransGo and the 1-2 wot shift would bark hard then timing would be pulled and then it was like hitting a 3000 rpm fuel cut rev limiter. <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" /> NOT fun at all. I lost amost a half second in the quarter because of this. TQM (and traction <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )is the only thing keeping me from solid 12 second passes in the 4400 lb beast.

In order to maintain some semlance of drivabilty I have reduced the shift kit to a 1 washer and WOT will not cut fuel but still has timing cut...though not as much. Part throttle shifts are still very firm and expereince <img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> TQM <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />

I need ls1edit 01' and the truck version now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Richard

<small>[ March 31, 2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: oxidizr ]</small>

 

First off let me say that I have experienced this myself and do not dispute this, but why is it that we are just discovering this now?? by now I'm sure that thousands of 01s and hundreds of 02s have done WOT launches and yet we are just discovering this now, I guess I'm just a little pissed as I have felt this and it is very aggravating to say the least. How the HELL do you launch in a race without doing yourself in at the 2nd gear change but also get the best ET??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> BULLSHIT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by J&JsTA:
<strong>First off let me say that I have experienced this myself and do not dispute this, but why is it that we are just discovering this now?? by now I'm sure that thousands of 01s and hundreds of 02s have done WOT launches and yet we are just discovering this now, I guess I'm just a little pissed as I have felt this and it is very aggravating to say the least. How the HELL do you launch in a race without doing yourself in at the 2nd gear change but also get the best ET??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> BULLSHIT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is no new discovery. Its been known about for years. I had my TM removed almost exactly 2 years ago.

 

Can we pinpoint a little... is it the spinning tires and Rev limiter hit at 1-2 that causes the BOG from the PCM... as I have found a softer launch decreases the major BOG at the 1-2 gear change to the point where you actually can barely feel it, if at all. Mind you the launch isn't as nearly dramatic. I will be heading to the local track for season opening this Sat so I can test this theory and see with the softer launch if the ET is still respectable. What a crappy solution until I can get TM out!!

 

it is unknown by most either because they do not listen or hear when others were saying T.M was monitored by the PCM and reacted to quick spikes of torque.
Also T.M is worse for performance on Corvettes even worse due to active handling and drive by wire functions.

What is a bigger pisser is these so called super tuners who either made it look like they were doing magic with code when they were just upping the max torque value in the PCM to reduce T.M functoning and keeping hush-hush,
but is worse is paying $500 for like the powerloader to find out the max torque value (350 ft/lbs) was left stock when vendor was tuning a 450 HP stroker engine knowing torque was increased to 400 plus ft/lbs and for a year I fought drag strip issues when all along it was T.M value not being properly changed by that tuner who knows less then we do.

Now add to the fact vendors like autotap have a flawed scanner and reports delivered torque values over 1,200 ft/lbs and when I told them T.M was involved they ignored my findings and to this day owners of the scanner do not monitor deltq because they were told torque values reported in PCM are never valid.
Once you have a decent scanner, it is easy to see when T.M is on for you see negative deltq values when fuel trim cells other then 20 and 21 are in use.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by J&JsTA:
<strong>First off let me say that I have experienced this myself and do not dispute this, but why is it that we are just discovering this now?? by now I'm sure that thousands of 01s and hundreds of 02s have done WOT launches and yet we are just discovering this now, I guess I'm just a little pissed as I have felt this and it is very aggravating to say the least. How the HELL do you launch in a race without doing yourself in at the 2nd gear change but also get the best ET??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> BULLSHIT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

 

at least it looks like you guys are getting a handle on taking care of it with ls1edit.

I'm soooo tempted to get a copy. But mine is already tuned with it. Also when I looked at it...I could easily forsee me screwing stuff up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

Originally posted by J&JsTA:
First off let me say that I have experienced this myself and do not dispute this, but why is it that we are just discovering this now??
---------------
TM is no surprise. (The fact that it also kills fuel and not just timing WAS a surprise to me) Heck, I've been logging the timing effects for 2 years now! I've seen my timing go as much as 5deg negative. I guess it's getting more attention lately because we can more readily do something about it!

Posted by TEAM ZR-1
What is a bigger pisser is these so called super tuners who either made it look like they were doing magic with code when they were just upping the max torque value in the PCM to reduce T.M functoning and keeping hush-hush.
--------------------
I agree! I know of several guys who dropped 1/2 sec after tuning on A4 cars. Suspected quite a bit was from TM deletion but couldn't believe it - Guess I can now!!

Mark