Jet-Hot LTs + Denso 'vette rears = ...
01-24-2006, 03:27 AM
#21
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This thread makes me sick!!! I have gone through a set of stock O2's, 2 sets of the Bosch 13111's (vette rear O2's) in one year and am still having insuffecient switching codes. I have had 2 different individuals tweak on my tune with HP tuners and both thought they had it really close, but I still get the codes. In addition, there are several cars in our club with the same mods I have that have never had this problem. One friend of mine in particular, performed the same mods I have around the same time, and since he replaced his O2's with the stock Denso replacement O2's and got a Predator tune from RWTD, has not had any more switching problems. The only differences between our cars are his is a Camaro mine a Poncho, his is an A4 and mine is an M6, he has Jet Hot long tubes and I have Jet Hot coated Kooks, he has Predator tune, mine has been tuned a few times with HP Tuners. What gives... I though that perhaps the Denso sensors were just more resisistant than the Bosch's to factors that would cause insuffecient switching so I was going to pony up the extra $20.00 a piece to give them a try. Then I find this thread which says just the opposite. 
01-24-2006, 07:50 AM
#22
Originally Posted by BOWTIE
This thread makes me sick!!! I have gone through a set of stock O2's, 2 sets of the Bosch 13111's (vette rear O2's) in one year and am still having insuffecient switching codes. I have had 2 different individuals tweak on my tune with HP tuners and both thought they had it really close, but I still get the codes. In addition, there are several cars in our club with the same mods I have that have never had this problem. One friend of mine in particular, performed the same mods I have around the same time, and since he replaced his O2's with the stock Denso replacement O2's and got a Predator tune from RWTD, has not had any more switching problems. The only differences between our cars are his is a Camaro mine a Poncho, his is an A4 and mine is an M6, he has Jet Hot long tubes and I have Jet Hot coated Kooks, he has Predator tune, mine has been tuned a few times with HP Tuners. What gives... I though that perhaps the Denso sensors were just more resisistant than the Bosch's to factors that would cause insuffecient switching so I was going to pony up the extra $20.00 a piece to give them a try. Then I find this thread which says just the opposite.
01-24-2006, 07:57 AM
#23
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I bought the Denso ones because of the anti-fouling
blah-blah-blah, and there wasn't anyone at the time who
could tell me whether or not they worked better than the
Bosch.
So far despite the codes I have not seen any bad trim
drift across the header swap. But the O2 waveforms are
really slouching now, where they used to boogie.
I'm thinking I may wrap at least the lower part of the
collector, just to see. Need to find some material I like
and give it a try. But I think my future holds an open
loop tune.
blah-blah-blah, and there wasn't anyone at the time who
could tell me whether or not they worked better than the
Bosch.
So far despite the codes I have not seen any bad trim
drift across the header swap. But the O2 waveforms are
really slouching now, where they used to boogie.
I'm thinking I may wrap at least the lower part of the
collector, just to see. Need to find some material I like
and give it a try. But I think my future holds an open
loop tune.
01-24-2006, 08:38 AM
#24
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
I bought the Denso ones because of the anti-fouling
blah-blah-blah, and there wasn't anyone at the time who
could tell me whether or not they worked better than the
Bosch.
So far despite the codes I have not seen any bad trim
drift across the header swap. But the O2 waveforms are
really slouching now, where they used to boogie.
I'm thinking I may wrap at least the lower part of the
collector, just to see. Need to find some material I like
and give it a try. But I think my future holds an open
loop tune.
blah-blah-blah, and there wasn't anyone at the time who
could tell me whether or not they worked better than the
Bosch.
So far despite the codes I have not seen any bad trim
drift across the header swap. But the O2 waveforms are
really slouching now, where they used to boogie.
I'm thinking I may wrap at least the lower part of the
collector, just to see. Need to find some material I like
and give it a try. But I think my future holds an open
loop tune.
Good Luck
01-24-2006, 06:29 PM
#26
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OK guys, here is the deal, in Texas we have to pass the OBD2 scan for inspection purposes... If I were to turn off the insuffecient switching codes, would that show up on the scan or would it be just like the other stuff that has been deleted (i.e. rear O2's, A.I.R., E.G.R., etc.). One last thing, my O2 voltages seem to dance around quite a bit (even more so after cleaning them with a propane torch), but they still seem to spend most of their time bouncing around in the 500-800 mv ranges just every so often dropping below 450; however I often am still showing positive values for my fuel trims. Why is this? Of course I have no way of logging this data, this just comes from watching the real time data on a borrowed Predator.
01-24-2006, 06:37 PM
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Another question that I have yet to see answered is why some cars have this problem, while other cars with the same mods do not. Hell in my case, both of the individuals that worked on my tune had or at one time had the same identical mods that I currently have, and neither of them had these damn switching code errors (in fact both of those were even the exact same year and model of my car, 2000 Pont T/A. The only differences is mine is a WS6, and one of those was an A4.)
05-13-2006, 08:18 PM
#29
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Spoke too soon. It just took a few more miles. I just got P1133 (only). It looks like i'll be trying new Bosch's when I get tuned.
Here is the extent of the code.
P1133
Manfacurer Contrl.
Fuel Air Metering
46rom the FSM:
DTC P1133
The oxygen sensor 1 (O2S-1) is an electrical source that responds to
oxygen content in the exhaust manifold. When the sensor reaches
approximately 316=B0C (600=B0F), it produces a voltage based on the
difference in oxygen between the atmosphere and exhaust gas. The
powertrain control module (PCM) sends a bias voltage, 391-491 mV on the
signal line which is pulled up through high resistance. When the O2S-1
is cold, it produces no voltage and has extremely high internal
resistance. The internal resistance of the sensor is much greater than
the resistance of the bias pull-up resistor. However, when the sensor
heats up, it produces voltage that overrides the bias voltage. This
voltage is read by the PCM to determine a rich/lean O2S-1 signal used to
adjust injector pulse width. Under normal conditions, low sensor voltage
means high oxygen content/lean air-fuel mixture and vice versa. Normal
sensor readings will fluctuate between 10-999 mV. DTC P1133 sets when
the O2S-1 signal has too few switches over a certain length of time.
DTC Parameters
DTC P1133 will set if the O2S-1 signal has not switched greater than 10
times within a 100 second test when:
The engine speed is between 1,500-3,000 RPM.=20
The Loop status is closed.=20
The calculated air flow is greater than 7 gm/s.=20
No camshaft (CAM), crankshaft position (CKP), engine coolant temperature
(ECT), exhaust gas recirculation (EGR), evaporative emission (EVAP)
purge solenoid, fuel trim, intake air temperature (IAT), manifold
absolute pressure (MAP), misfire, O2S-1, system voltage or throttle
position (TP) sensor DTCs have been set.=20
DTC P1133 diagnostic runs once per ignition cycle once the above
conditions have been met.
DTC P1133 is a type B DTC.
Diagnostic Aids
Possible causes of DTC P1133:
An intermittent connection or corrosion in the O2S-1 harness connector
can set this DTC. Use a scan tool to monitor O2S-1 voltage with engine
running at normal operating temperature while wiggling the signal and
ground (circuit 413) wire. Make sure the sensor is tight.=20
The most probable cause for DTC P1133 is contamination. Check for
obvious contamination, oil, fuel or engine coolant, by removing the
sensor. Identify and correct the cause of the contamination if
contaminated. Replace the O2S-1.=20
Here is the extent of the code.
P1133
Manfacurer Contrl.
Fuel Air Metering
46rom the FSM:
DTC P1133
The oxygen sensor 1 (O2S-1) is an electrical source that responds to
oxygen content in the exhaust manifold. When the sensor reaches
approximately 316=B0C (600=B0F), it produces a voltage based on the
difference in oxygen between the atmosphere and exhaust gas. The
powertrain control module (PCM) sends a bias voltage, 391-491 mV on the
signal line which is pulled up through high resistance. When the O2S-1
is cold, it produces no voltage and has extremely high internal
resistance. The internal resistance of the sensor is much greater than
the resistance of the bias pull-up resistor. However, when the sensor
heats up, it produces voltage that overrides the bias voltage. This
voltage is read by the PCM to determine a rich/lean O2S-1 signal used to
adjust injector pulse width. Under normal conditions, low sensor voltage
means high oxygen content/lean air-fuel mixture and vice versa. Normal
sensor readings will fluctuate between 10-999 mV. DTC P1133 sets when
the O2S-1 signal has too few switches over a certain length of time.
DTC Parameters
DTC P1133 will set if the O2S-1 signal has not switched greater than 10
times within a 100 second test when:
The engine speed is between 1,500-3,000 RPM.=20
The Loop status is closed.=20
The calculated air flow is greater than 7 gm/s.=20
No camshaft (CAM), crankshaft position (CKP), engine coolant temperature
(ECT), exhaust gas recirculation (EGR), evaporative emission (EVAP)
purge solenoid, fuel trim, intake air temperature (IAT), manifold
absolute pressure (MAP), misfire, O2S-1, system voltage or throttle
position (TP) sensor DTCs have been set.=20
DTC P1133 diagnostic runs once per ignition cycle once the above
conditions have been met.
DTC P1133 is a type B DTC.
Diagnostic Aids
Possible causes of DTC P1133:
An intermittent connection or corrosion in the O2S-1 harness connector
can set this DTC. Use a scan tool to monitor O2S-1 voltage with engine
running at normal operating temperature while wiggling the signal and
ground (circuit 413) wire. Make sure the sensor is tight.=20
The most probable cause for DTC P1133 is contamination. Check for
obvious contamination, oil, fuel or engine coolant, by removing the
sensor. Identify and correct the cause of the contamination if
contaminated. Replace the O2S-1.=20
05-13-2006, 08:26 PM
#30
Yupper.. old news... I am switching to a set of bosch rears myself...
LG headers BLOW!!!!! Every car with a set of Kooks that I have logged has switched like crazy... Conversely, every vehicle I have logged with LGs, pops these two errors...
LG headers BLOW!!!!! Every car with a set of Kooks that I have logged has switched like crazy... Conversely, every vehicle I have logged with LGs, pops these two errors...
05-13-2006, 08:34 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by SideStep
Yupper.. old news... I am switching to a set of bosch rears myself...
LG headers BLOW!!!!! Every car with a set of Kooks that I have logged has switched like crazy... Conversely, every vehicle I have logged with LGs, pops these two errors...
LG headers BLOW!!!!! Every car with a set of Kooks that I have logged has switched like crazy... Conversely, every vehicle I have logged with LGs, pops these two errors...
05-14-2006, 08:10 AM
#32
Originally Posted by BlackHawk T/A
You mean fronts?
Nope I mean the rears.... most of us are using rear type sensors in place of the front type sensors (higher wattage)... we do it with long tubes because the higher wattage switches faster...
05-14-2006, 01:13 PM
#33
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Hm well the light went off 24 hours later...if I have any further problems i'll look into Bosch "rear" sensors. I thought they were all the same but do they actually have different PN#'s?
05-14-2006, 05:32 PM
#35
Originally Posted by BlackHawk T/A
Hm well the light went off 24 hours later...if I have any further problems i'll look into Bosch "rear" sensors. I thought they were all the same but do they actually have different PN#'s?
Good Luck...
Last edited by SideStep; 05-15-2006 at 09:07 PM.
05-19-2006, 09:57 PM
#38
Originally Posted by SmokingWS6
Adaptors? None should be needed with the 13111's. The cable is about 3' long and plugs right into the stock connector 
C5s only
Corvettes do need an adapter if you want to use rear type sensors in the front wiring harness (and bungs)...
The front O2 wiring harness end connector looks like this:
The rear O2 wiring harness connector looks like this:
Last edited by SideStep; 05-20-2006 at 07:29 AM.