I know im running rich, but cant be sure till i get on wideband. But what tables do ya'll pull to lean or richen the cars at WOT??

after the cam i know i have to do some work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

anything else i should really be looking at on atap to see i need to edit?

 

The PE vs RPM table has your answers.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AzzHauler:
<strong>The PE vs RPM table has your answers.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thanks oh great one <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />

im in edit heaven, just need to master this stuff lol

 

ok another question.. I pulled that table up and from 2000 rpms up this is the number 1.2403

now say on atap my 02's are .91(rich in other words)

what would i do to try and lean things out?? for example say how would i get those 02's from .91 to say .88??

need a idea so i can go from there when i get on wideband

 

you would type in 98% in for adjustment and then apply changes on the pe vs. rpm table

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by WicketMike:
<strong>you would type in 98% in for adjustment and then apply changes on the pe vs. rpm table</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">so i would multiply all the cells by 98%?? or just selected ones? Or am i missing the whole pitcure here. Why's 98% different from say 100% or 96%? edit virgin here now

 

Well if you look at the log file and its always, say .91 from 3500-5800, then you can select those cells, check the box at the bottom right for changing only selected cells, type 98 in the box, and hit the multiply % button. Be sure to hit apply changes before you close that table or it'll go back to what it was. Also remember to save the file before exiting the program. That will really **** you off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AzzHauler:
<strong>That will really **** you off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">lol, i found that out when i was trying to save my idle changes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

anyone have any enlight on why 96% or 100% is different and how?

like if i wanted to go leaner would i do 99%?

<small>[ August 13, 2002, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: 98TAauto ]</small>

 

Whatever percent you put in is what it takes of the original value. So if you type in '95', it changes everything to 95% of it's original value. Multiplying each number by 0.95. So if you put in a number less than 100 the result is always smaller, hence, leaning the WOT enrichment amount. Going over 100 richens it.

 

Not necessarily PE vs RPM. Most of the time you can cure your rich condition by getting your part throttle ltrims to a slightly negative %. Most of the time, that will bring everything into line.

 

thanks all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> i get the pitcure now..

im gonna wack the Ltrims first and hopefully that will fix it all

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of the time you can cure your rich condition by getting your part throttle ltrims to a slightly negative %. Most of the time, that will bring everything into line.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How do you do that with Edit?

 

if your l trims are way negative (rich all over) then drop your maf table down overall by 5% or so at a time untill you get ballpark. (-1-3%)

then fine tune your wot with the p.e. table as my collegue stated.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by StevieZ:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of the time you can cure your rich condition by getting your part throttle ltrims to a slightly negative %. Most of the time, that will bring everything into line.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How do you do that with Edit?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is pretty simple. Using ATAP or whatever, log your ltrims over part throttle driving for 5 minutes or so. Don't take the car to WOT during the logging. Once you have completed that, export your log file to Excel and do an average of the Ltrim values.

The Ltrim values are a +/- %enrichment just like the MAF table. For example, if your part throttle Ltrims are averaging +12%, it means that your car is lean at part throttle and it is adding 12% fuel to correct for that. The problem is, since that value is stored in your ltrims, you will also be adding 12% at WOT.

To correct for this(using the example of +12% averate part throttle Ltrims), you multiply your entire MAF table by 114%. 12% to correct for the fuel it is adding and another 2% to bring your average Ltrims into the slightly negative range. Since you are using average Ltrims, you may have to fiddle with it a bit to get it to the value you want. I've had much better luck aiming for a slightly negative average Ltrim value, somewhere in the range of -1% to -2%. Once you are there, your WOT A/F should be pretty close. My advice is to have your part-throttle Ltrims tuned in to your satisfaction, then head to the dyno to tune in your WOT A/F. As the other guys stated, adjust your PE vs RPM to fine tune your WOT A/F.

 

I did a topic search for Edit or edit and came across this thread. I must say this is one of the best threads I've found for tuning A/F.

One more question, though. Is it still possible, after tuning part throttle, to have an air/fuel ratio stay flat until say 4000 rpms, then richen up like on some cars? If so, is this when you would highlight the specific cells in the PE vs. RPM tables, and make the appropriate changes?

Also, what about the COT tab in ver1.1? Couldn't you try turning that off instead of messing with the PE vs RPM table, or would you want to do both?

Thanks,
Derrick

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PewterZ28:
<strong>I did a topic search for Edit or edit and came across this thread. I must say this is one of the best threads I've found for tuning A/F.

One more question, though. Is it still possible, after tuning part throttle, to have an air/fuel ratio stay flat until say 4000 rpms, then richen up like on some cars? If so, is this when you would highlight the specific cells in the PE vs. RPM tables, and make the appropriate changes?

Also, what about the COT tab in ver1.1? Couldn't you try turning that off instead of messing with the PE vs RPM table, or would you want to do both?

Thanks,
Derrick</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Derrick: I think the COT tab is the answer. We don't have that tab on the version we've been using. Needless to say, I'm glad the COT info came out. We'd seen that 4K+ rich condition and have spent hours getting rid of that with the PE vs RPM table.

I'd turn off COT and check your A/F. I'll bet it is close. If not, you should only have a small amount of fine tuning left to do on the PE vs. RPM.

Denz

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DenzSS:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by StevieZ:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of the time you can cure your rich condition by getting your part throttle ltrims to a slightly negative %. Most of the time, that will bring everything into line.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How do you do that with Edit?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is pretty simple. Using ATAP or whatever, log your ltrims over part throttle driving for 5 minutes or so. Don't take the car to WOT during the logging. Once you have completed that, export your log file to Excel and do an average of the Ltrim values.

The Ltrim values are a +/- %enrichment just like the MAF table. For example, if your part throttle Ltrims are averaging +12%, it means that your car is lean at part throttle and it is adding 12% fuel to correct for that. The problem is, since that value is stored in your ltrims, you will also be adding 12% at WOT.

To correct for this(using the example of +12% averate part throttle Ltrims), you multiply your entire MAF table by 114%. 12% to correct for the fuel it is adding and another 2% to bring your average Ltrims into the slightly negative range. Since you are using average Ltrims, you may have to fiddle with it a bit to get it to the value you want. I've had much better luck aiming for a slightly negative average Ltrim value, somewhere in the range of -1% to -2%. Once you are there, your WOT A/F should be pretty close. My advice is to have your part-throttle Ltrims tuned in to your satisfaction, then head to the dyno to tune in your WOT A/F. As the other guys stated, adjust your PE vs RPM to fine tune your WOT A/F.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Has anyone tried breaking it up into various fuel cell and averaging for the fuel cell instead of averaging the entire run? Like what I mean is if your average LTFT is -6, sure, you can lean it out 3 or 4% and get your average LTFT to -3 or so, but maybe some fuel cells will be + then. Wouldn't it be better to average the fuel cells individually and apply the correction factor to each one individually? Like if fuel cell 3 is -6 and fuel cell 4 is -8, you correct fuel cell 3 by 3% and 4 by 5%, etc? Just wondering.

 

I don't know why you couldn't, but I really don't think it is worth the effort. There are just too many variables involved. You're not going to be fine tuning with your LTFT's. You're just getting your A/F halfway close with your LTFT's and then fine tuning it with your PE vs RPM. Once you get to the PE vs RPM table, you should be using wideband O2 to tune it in. At that point, any time you waste is costing you money. I'm not saying you should hurry and do a shoddy job, but we all know that dyno+wideband fees can rack up pretty quickly. Unless you're dealing with aftermarket fuel pumps, FMU's, larger injectors, Forced Induction, etc you should be able to get your A/F lined out in 30-45 minutes of dyno time. Once you leave the stock fuel system, you're going to have a lot more to deal with.

Basically, if you can get the A/F to flatline at a ratio you are happy with, you are good enough. Just remember that you'll lean out .2 or so on the street compared to the dyno, so tune accordingly.

Denz

 

AKW408,
I have done just what you asked about and it DOES make a difference. I use the MAF frequencies to do this. It seems that the MAF table values are not in a straight line but are a curve, so multiplying by a constant value does NOT get the job done as well as it could be. If your average is overall negative, it is very possible that when you step on the gas you may be in a lean condition and the PCM would adjust for that. Believe me, I have seen it. I believe the professional tuners do not want to do this because it is time consuming and they are more interested in the almighty dollar.

 

Here's what I did:
Do a scan while looking at both LTFT's and the MAF raw input frequency. Export this to an excel table and sort by the MAF readings.
Now, if you look at the MAF table in LS1-Edit, it is in Hz in 125 increments. My scan readings usually only go from 2000 to 9000, so those are the ones I deal with. I interpolate each table setting for a "range", that is the value for the 2000 setting would be from (2000-63) to (2000+63) and the same for each other "range". Average the LTFT's in each of these ranges (easy to do while in Excel) and adjust for that amount and make your change with Edit for each "range". Hope I explained that OK. I you notice, Usually the further under about 3500hz is more richer and then going slightly leaner above the 3500.