ratio411

I have known for a long time that our cars have 'black boxes' or data recorders on board. They seem to be in the news alot lately, locally anyway.
It is being reported that alot of police departments around the country are catching on to the info available in the recorder, so more and more agencys are getting the software to tap into the recorder.
To me it is an invasion of privacy and I would like someone to refresh me/us on how to disable the recorder.
I have heard the storys of dealers denying warranty because of extreme speeds, etc... being recorded, this didn't bother me much. However, it is getting to the point that I could be pulled over for something small and then get grief because my recorder says that the car has logged something in it's history that the officer might not like.
Not saying I would get a ticket or anything, but it's none of big brother's business if they didn't witness it.
Thanks guys,
Dave

felton316

It only records the last five seconds before impact/deployment of the airbags. No need to worry avout warrenties, because if they are checking the box, then the car is pretty smashed up. You can unplug it, but then the air bags will not work.

ratio411

I have seen posts on how to tamper with the thing just enough that it doesn't work, but allows no disruption in other functions like the air bags.

koolrayz

iTrader: (26)

I think this is a topic that should interest us all. BIG BROTHER needs out of my car. I would be all over a product that would disable the recording function

TheDogofWar

iTrader: (2)

You got that right! I was told mine didn't have one. a 98Z. Wheres it located? I have a box below the drivers headlight, next to where the AIR pump used to be, I have no clue what it is. I suspect it's this box.

TTT Hope we get some info on this.

P.S. I don't care about the airbags, if I disconnect it, will the lights go on?

Cal

iTrader: (1)

It's part of the air bag controller that is located under the center console. I tried unpluging mine already (I wouldn't give a rat's *** for an airbag) but my car threw 2 or 3 different lights, so I ended up plugging it back in.

ratio411

FWIW,
I did a little research on the box...
Some facts that I have learned:

*Our cars have had them since 1990.
*Each year gets a little more 'intrusive' with it's record keeping.
*The LS1 cars record functions continually.
*The memory loop is short, the new data is constantly over-writing over the old.
*Since the LS1 intro in 97 to date, GM uses a loop capable of 5 seconds minimum.
*There are 2 events that cause the box to store records long term:
1)A "near deployment" event... A pre-programmed indicator that an airbag deployment might be imminent. This one is scary! I have searched for the specifics on what actions might cause the computer to believe an accident might be about to happen, but cannot find details. This is very vague. For all we know, the computer might be programmed to believe that speeds over 80 mph, for example, mean that a deployment is imminent so these events all get logged. All near deployment records are kept for 250 cycles of the ignition. Records are kept in the air bag module and do not erase with power loss or computer reset.
2)An airbag deployment. The memory in the airbag module recalls and permanantly imprints the last loop of memory available until the time the air bag deploys. This is permanant and non-removable. The near deployment records from the last 250 times you started the car are also permanantly imbedded in memory (just for statisics according to GM).
*Once memory becomes imbedded rather than just stored, the box will no longer work. It must be replaced with a new one.
*Some specific records kept (Info from Vertronix, the computer firm that programs GM and Ford black boxes. Vertronix is also currently selling the law enforment community a hardware/software link so that troopers can pull the readings.):

Vehicle speed (minimum 5 seconds before impact)

Engine speed (minimum 5 seconds before impact)

Brake status (minimum 5 seconds before impact)

Throttle position (minimum 5 seconds before impact)

State of driver's seat belt switch (On/Off)

Passenger's airbag enabled or disabled state (On/Off)

SIR Warning Lamp status (On/Off)

Time from vehicle impact to airbag deployment

Ignition cycle count at event time

Ignition cycle count at investigation

Maximum DV for near-deployment events

DV vs. time for frontal airbag deployment event

Time from vehicle impact to time of maximum DV

Time between near-deployment events and deployment event


Vertronix notes that the above list of recorded values is the GM and Ford basic program. Other, and/or more detailed records are acknowledged to be possible depending on make/model. This list is the minimum.

What is included in the Vertronix reading kit for LEOs:

Data Retrieval Module

Windows® 95/98/ME/NT/2000 based Software (CD) (includes Help Files/Manual)

Vehicle Interface Cable

PC Interface Cable

Module Interface Cables (3)

6' Extension Cable

Cigarette Lighter Power Cable

AC/DC 12V Power Supply

Storage Case for entire kit

Sorry so long...
What scares me is the lack of details.
Anyone can say "it records the last 5 seconds before a crash" and be telling the truth. So you figure that's nothing... What is left out is that the records are constantly looping and that a sub-set of records are kept as near misses. No one seems to know what constitutes the near miss either. These records are also downplayed and convienently left out of the "5 seconds" statement because they are technically not permanant records. The lesser records are only kept for 250 starts of the car so they don't seem to count.
Once Vertronix gets these units widespread in LEO cars, there will be a thirst for more and more records to be kept within the car for them to look at. All in the name of statistics of course .
Just some things to consider...
Dave

felton316

You think thats scary, try reading about OBD3. You wont need to worry about it recording, because it has the ability to broadcast the info to whoever maybe watching.

ratio411

OBD3 = ratio411 never buying another new (obd3 equipped) car

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

If OBD3 comes out somebody will come out with a "sim" box for it.

You'll have no emissions equipment on the car with a carbed BBC driving down the road at 160mph and the monitoring device will see a perfectly smog legal vehicle doing 55mph.

If the demand is great enough(it would be) somebody will figure a way to defeat it.

koolrayz

iTrader: (26)

That idea of a sim module sounds like a great idea. OBD3 sounds scarie but lets concentrate on the black box at hand. Im sure they could sell a sim module by the tens of thousands for the current black boxes.

McRat

I don't think you need a sim. You need a cheap and simple way of destroying the module with a flick of a toggle. Like hooking a small ignition coil line into the data lines and hitting it with 25,000v.

So if you want to protect your Constitutional right against self-incrimination(?) you just flick a switch. The PD will plug into the dataport and get errors.

koolrayz

iTrader: (26)

McRat, can we get a GP on those 25rwhp socks from your mom