but do i ned to have a stock wiring harness and PCM, or is it complete stand alone system with its own wiring harness?

 

I know that 2-3 folks have gotten a Gen 7 recently, so I am waiting for them to post their results. I know that they are making a list of things to check.

 

I know the price

 

price is 2150 jobber part 77050

you do not need the stock harness or pcm for this unless you want to keep the factory cluster, or trans.

 

cool deal

 

So if I understand all this correct (I am Norwegian).

Does the Gen7+ comes complete with a harness for race setup of LS1 and ECU and sensors is this correct?

The reason for asking is I am building a Vega for trac day use and some street (we have very few polution demands on old cars) with LS1 and T56 going in to it and I have all the hardware including sensors but I am missing the Harness and ECU.
Can I use Accel Gen7+

If so greate how can I get it to Norway?

I am a electronic and computer engineer so putting it in the car should be no problem.

I will be running no cats or other polution devices is that ok?

Can I throw away the MAF (more power) ?

Can I still connect the Autometer speedo up to the ECU and get a correct speedo.

I tried to find more info about it on the web page http://www.mrgasket.com but can`t find any LS1 details were do I look.

It is greate that Accel finaly gives us this

Regards
Erik
From Oslo in Norway

 

Eric you have mail.

 

I cant begin to say enuff how well designed the ls1 kit is...total install after laying everything out and figuring best routing for everything roughly 8 hours ,,may take twice as long for someone doing it themselves...I have a kit fully installed as of today and will have fire in the holes tommorow...The car opted to go stand alone and do away with the factory pcm and engine harness.. so i had to jump out the starter solenoid wire through the nuetral saftey to allow the starter to function as normal off the key and also tap into factory fuel pump relay with the fuel pump switched lead from the dfi.. very nicely layed out harness to say the least..looking forward to firing this thing up and start to keyboard tappin ... few notes to help along some people...i suggest anyone getting a system opt for the fan control harness so you can take advantage of the fan on -off controls since the harness doesnt come in any of the kits..other options are fancontrol(already mentioned)torque converter lockup, knock control,single stage n20,mutltistage n20,a/c clutch control,MIL indicator harness,and wideband uego..There is also 3 choices in keys that allow for getting to other screens for more experienced tuners standard key comes in all kits,,sportsman and pro key are also available options, pro key allowing every aspect if calibration even adjustments for sensor sensitivity..

again thanks everyone at accel for allowing me to beta test this system I'll forward feedback tommorow evening ..

ps. Ken I need a multi stage harness might as well pump up the volume

 

Thank yo so much for your reply to my mail.

The more I read the more exited I get

I mailed Accel about this a little over 6 months ago when I started collecting parts for my LS1/T56 project (In norway getting parts from US takes time).
I chose to buy a bare engine with sensors and injector but no alternator, a/c, PS pump etc since I am custom making most of it in to the car.

But I have been determind to use an afthermarked Engine Management system and now it`s here GREATE.

So now it`s just getting the engine/trans in the car and that should be a breeezzz compared to all the custome work put in to the car.

Thank you Accel.

Have a greate week end everyone.

Regards
Erik
From Oslo in Norway

 

Just to let you you guys know, order you kits now they will begin shipping out on Monday September 8th 2003.

 

FIRE IN THE HOLES!!!!!!!! cranked up 2 revolutions of the starter and instant startup..Already a noticeable difference in throttle response and noticeble difference in idle,which I have found to be true on every car I've put gen7 on...now the fun begins ..This setup is truly awesome ...big props to Accel they really done the homework on this system... I have a feeling people will be switching from the fast setup once some cars get out and put up a number ....

 

not too be a downer but give some time to the other companies as well. I know of a few other big name companies who are releasing new boxes as well this year. I know one will be LS1 applicable but not sure about the other

 

Very well may be new boxes coming, wonder how many are copycat designs ??? the competition
surely has heir work laid out for them..At any rate the car here I been tappin on is 99% tuned ( I say 99% because I'm forever searching for that other 1% ) should be interesting to see the gains compared to stock pcm tuned with edit.I can already tell it will be pretty big change in torque and hp throughout the rpm band...

 

WOW, that looks like a whole lotta nitrous Joe.

 

What is it, do you think, that is allowing you to produce more power with the accell than vs. a tuned stock pcm? Are you turning over 8k rpm and the stock pcm couldn't keep up? No doubt the flexibility is much superior, as well as the ability to change values in real time, and the ability to read boost (if you need to) - but in the end it still all boils down to factors that effect fuel and spark?

 

Chris can you honestly say what you flash in with edit is what it really is??? can you eleviate the relearn process?? can you actually control the injector pulse timing per intake valve opening(a must for a sesquential car with a cam change)???can you control spark dwell time per rpm??? Can you change fueling per tps/map?? can you change how fast the ecm reacts to tps /map changes??? trust me I know what you asking..as much as one would like to think they have control over the factory ecm they dont however ..the factory ecm does what it was made to do and thats try to run a clean emissions car...It wasnt driven towards max effort performance..when somebody throws a cam and heads package on a ls1 ..what do they do ..they are not tuning for the cam/heads they are throwing fuel at it at random and throwing timing in the mix to raise manifold vacuum so it idles correctly ,some actually take the ole drill out and starts popping holes in the throttle blades to get a stable idle...... having a tuning tool you "think" what was entered is what it is,,and having a tuning tool you "know" what entered is what it is makes a world of difference....the end user ultimately has the control,but i will commend accel on the startup parameters that the gen7 does for the user ...light years from what i use to tune with, which was the ole DOS gen6 on my own car...
is it spark yes
is it fuel yes
is the ability to be able to control every aspect of both most definately..

does edit allow that ...maybe somewhat but the programmer is the sophmore and the factory ecm is the dean..

 

generally yes, what you put in the pcm is what is observed in running - there definitely are/have been times when tables are referenced that we don't (yet) have the ability to access, but for the most part the results are pretty consistent.

What happens often is the same situation that can happen with any efi - you set your base timing to xxx degrees, but then something else, say an IAT temperature modifier table, pulls out 2 degrees of timing. Upon logging you see xxx-2. Many people say "wtf, I set my timing to xxx, what's wrong with this".

To answer your questions - yes, you can remove the relearn process as it corresponds to a/f ratio. I do not believe you can directly alter injector phasing. Spark dwell is pretty much intelligently controlled in real time to give the longest spark possible while still allowing for proper coil recharge.

And again, don't get me wrong - I am not suggesting that the Gen7 doesn't have significant advantages over the stock pcm, I am just curious as to how those advantages tranlate directly into power gains.

If people are just throwing fuel in at random with a stock pcm then that is their choice - a good tuner with either tool is essential - probably even more so with the Gen7 since the baseline isn't (can't be) as optimized for this specific application. And drilling a hole in the TB blade says nothing about the tuning abilities of the ecm - the air you need at idle is a function of your displacement and rpm generally - since the flow through the iac is fixed if you exceed that you *have* to get more air in somehow.


Again, I don't disagree that the accell PCM has much more programmer friendly function, the relationships are clearly understood/defined, etc. - but just from my experience with aftermarket ecm's that doesn't translate directly to more hp/torque unless the base setup was unoptimized. This is with Gen6, Haltech, and FAST though (haven't seen Gen7 yet).

Now if you are doing something more exotic then I can defintiely see the benefit (FI, dry nitrous fueled through injector pw increases, etc.) and potential for significant gains, but on a heads cam or even built NA motor I would be very suprised if there was 30rwhp to gain for a given combination! I just don't think people should see this as a "power" mod, at least for the less hardcore combo's.

 

Chris, dont get me wrong I'm not suggesting a stock car to switch to gen7 either..I've tuned several cars with edit myself (ex. cam/heads stock bottom end lt1 452 rwhp)granted they were cam heads cars, but they still netted noticeable gains just using edit..You are limiting yourself however on big stroker setups and wild cam profiles not just p/a..And as you said already the parameters such as IAT for ex. you essentially have no control over when your good tune at 70* starts going lean because its pulling fuel/adding timing as air temp increases entering the TB..this could be a long debate and the choice is ultimately the owner,his combo,and what their needs are...I myself for one knows my lt1 N/a car wouldnt run what it does with all the factory ecm tuning in the world and as it stands now nobody has shown otherwise other than with a p/a and even still theres only a few still using the factory ecm in that realm also..point is the factory ecm is limiting on a modified car,now what you consider as modified compared to me or anyone else remains to be seen..Some people may be satisfied what lt1/ls1edit does/doesnt do for them..I guess until the ney sayers try or see a gen7 in action and all the capability you would have with it..Their will always be the people satisfied where they are at,and question whether a aftermarket ecu is for them or not...To revert back for a sec..as far whether gen7 is n/a or p/a more advantageous...I already have gained on my own car and I'll have a n/a ls1 out shortly..I'm confident will wake up the weary eyes..To those that do change over to DFI I'm sure their first comments would be that they didnt know how they ever got by with the factory ecu..
The choice is up to the owner in the end...

 

Hey Joe can you ship to Norway?

I am building a LS1/T56 Vega with Jaguar IRS and loads of custom pices to it built for hispeed road and track day use.

Also is the Gen7+ preprogramed for LS1 so it will start up?
Offcource it needs tuning but I was thinking of geting it started and driven to the tuning shop.

Erik
From Oslo in Norway

 

Chris, there are advantages with larger displacement solid roller motors like mine. Speed Density being able to eliminate the MAF is a significant advantage. Also the ability to fine tune WOT a/f and timing at more defined increments. The LS1 PCM has done me well but it's time for a change.

By the way Joe, where's my shipment!?! LOL...