Kurk78

so ive been directed to this site countless times from Google searches so thank you all, ive found very useful info here.
now i am in need of some direct assistance/opinions. i just bought an 02 firebird base model. figured i could use it as a daily since my other daily was a drag built 78 firebird. one week went by and the motor in the 02 had to be torn apart. it's a small V6 3800 series 2 motor. it packs a punch but not as much as my 78 with greatly dissapoints me lol.
I'm in a car club involving muscle cars and there's 3 mustangs with v6s that think they know how to build their horsepower. i'd like to show them up with my v6 and it's power

now here's the issue, while the V6 is in pieces, i have the option to build it up and make it powerful. along side this, i can scrap the whole challenge of showing up mustangs and build an LS1 instead.

what do?

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

as someone who did the swap I say go LS. It depends on the goal of the car though, Warshrike did a build on the 3.8 and made some great power out of the motor. Ultimately though it depends on what you want out of the car.

Me I wanted the v8 sound and some torque to go along with it. I was never gonna get the sound I wanted of the 3.8 so I started from scratch.

Kurk78

well, finding an LS1 isnt exactly cheap

JD_AMG

Neither is building the V6 to make stock LS1-like power.
Warshrike did an awesome full V6 build and made 250rwhp,
(https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...rebird-23.html)
a bone stock LS1 will make 300+rwhp all day. Bolt ons and you will be at 350+rwhp and running mid to low 12s in the 1/4 mile.


Its your car and its up to you, but with an LS1 those V6 mustangs wouldn't even be worth talking about.
Easiest thing to do IMO would be to sell it and just buy a V8 fbody, as swapping one is not as easy as you would think.

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

Agreed the v6 performance market is pretty niche when it comes to the stuff really required to make the power so expect to pay a bit of a premium to get there.

Disagree with the swap being difficult though. A straight ls swap is a weekend job for the experienced. I've swapped 3.8's out in a day after doing it a few times. Now having the tools to accomplish the task might make it seem difficult. It's just too easy to plop that motor out the bottom.and set another one in it's place

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

After having done it both ways, I've found it easier to take the motor out through the top. **** dealing with the power steering hoses, brake lines, steering shaft, moving the brake fluid res, and dealing with all the bolts for the K-member. Pulling the crap off the front and top of the engine and yanking the motor out that way is much easier in my opinion.

That said, for a first timer you want to take your time with the swap but it's not hard.

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

^ you made it way harder than intended. I left the brake lines on and just zip tied the calipers to the chassis. left the power steering connected since I dropped the suspension with it. 6 bolts on the k member 4 bolts for the tranny, and 4 per side for the for the shock tower bolts one bolt in the slip joint for the steering shaft. disconnect the ecm and the three connectors on the inside of the car, disconnect the ground strap to chassis, the battery terminals and the lead from engine bay fuse box (take the power and negative wires with the engine as it drops) and the master cylinder vacuum line, and the small vacuum lines for the AC,, disconnect the radiator AC lines and heater lines and your good.

I was really shocked how quickly it could be done my first time around.

Kurk78

i'm no stranger to motor swapping but with this body style, yea. the designers at GM mustve been smoking banana peels to come up with an engine bay firewall to extend over the engine like this. anyway, how possible is it to supercharge the v6? you know, grab a supercharger from a GrandNational. i really hope i dont have to cut the firewall. and if supercharging is possible, then i'll have my decision

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

procharger I think sold a kit specifically for the 3.8. Full bolt on kit not body mods required that I remember. Never met anyone that did it though. I was actually gonna suggest it as an alternative still not not cheap though It used to retail for about 2600 I think.

Motor was recessed on the 4th gen to keep the weight off the nose of the car I think still a PITA to work on though

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

The Grand National was turbocharged, not supercharged. The Buick 3.8L in the Grand National and 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am is a very different beast than the 3800 Series II is. Furthermore, there was a supercharged 3800 Series II V6 that was used in the Grand Prix GTP among other things. You could source the parts for one of those from a junk yard, Ebay, Craigslist, etc.

It's definitely not the easiest thing to work on. Strangely, I prefer it to working on the third generation F-bodies for most things as the latter had a much more cramped engine bay. The air system, emissions garbage, and the complex TBI and TPI systems really made a mess of things under the hood. A carb car was a different story though.

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

the grandprix's are a front wheel drive setup so it would set backwards on a rwd 3.8. It can work but honestly more work than its worth and requires an adapter plate.

powerdyne was the name of the company making the kit, not sure if they are available still though since nothing popped in the google.

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

I understand that. Still, it might be possible to score a factory supercharger cheaper than going with a kit like that. I know more work is required to make it function, but sometimes people have more money than time.

I'd discard either idea and go with an LSx swap of some sort. That's not as expensive as you might think. There are deals to be had on 5.3's pulled from trucks etc.

FRECHKN

I was going to put an l67 in my 02 but in the end it was creeping up on the price of an LS swap and I found a LS1 cheap but you don't have to go LS1 you can buy a 5.3 relatively cheap. I have a swap thread it shows a fair amount of photos.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...t5-ls-t56.html

FRECHKN

I cannot agree more these motors go through the bottom it is very simple and a very fast procedure

Spamfritter

iTrader: (1)

The K-member and suspension on the donor car wasn't in good shape. I had no choice but to move the engine to the other car's K-member or I would have done it that way. Plus the roller had upgraded rotors and ****. I was in for allot of work either way.