GTO vs.Trans Am
04-08-2004, 12:36 PM
#81
If you don't like the GTO, don't buy one - it's that simple.
There will never be a new Camaro or Firebird(GM signed an agreement w/the Canadian govn't after closing the St. Therese plant that says GM can never sell another car called "Camaro" or "Firebird/Trans Am") so for now the GTO and used F-bodies are all us GM fans have available.
Personally I will wait to see what GM does w/ the american GTO(and possibly Chevelle, etc) in 2007-08. Until then, I'll be content w/ my 2000 Z28.
There will never be a new Camaro or Firebird(GM signed an agreement w/the Canadian govn't after closing the St. Therese plant that says GM can never sell another car called "Camaro" or "Firebird/Trans Am") so for now the GTO and used F-bodies are all us GM fans have available.
Personally I will wait to see what GM does w/ the american GTO(and possibly Chevelle, etc) in 2007-08. Until then, I'll be content w/ my 2000 Z28.
04-09-2004, 01:20 PM
#83
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Well guys, we've been ousted. We Generation X'ers are losing favor. I will be out of the 18-34 year old demographic in September. That's why the F-Bod is dead (RIP) and never to return. I love my 2000 Z-28 but we are now in the minority.
Performance cars are designed for two basic demographics: The young who want fun and excitement on a low budget or the middle age with deeper pockets and want more refinement for their cash.
I will not drive a "sporty" FWD 4 banger for fun. I understand WRX's, STI's, SRT's, et al, are all the rage for todays younger crowd and are quick. Sorry, no disrespect to that crowd, it's just not my scene. I like RWD 8 cylinders with deep exhaust. With three kids and a mortgage, I can't afford a C6 (yet). So here we are. Pining for the glory days clinging on to a hope that GM will hear us and develop a RWD, V-8 Messiah under $35K. Bad news... it ain't gonna happen.
I think GM has missed the boat and sold us out. The GTO is a decent automobile. I won't get into an argument about it's not REALLY American, etc. All cars are made from parts manufactured somewhere else. So let that argument be tabled. But I won't buy one.
GM should have kept the idea of a bigger, more storage friendly car like the original GTO. Wedged in a LS1,2,6... whatever. They should have just designed it new with a little wider appeal and a few 10ths slower than the Vette. The GTO is the grandaddy of muscle and I expected a little more. No offense to the GTO guys, I just don't like it. I'll stick with my dinosaur F-Bod and keep it for sh_ts, giggles, and posterity.
I feel GM's new line is complete crap but the only thing worse is most of the Japanese (Corp Headquarters only) line-up. Lets take the easy one's first. Buick and Olds: Does anyone under 60 buy them? The GN was great but that was almost 20 years ago. Enough said. The Hummer is in a class of it's own and doesn't fit this argument. Same thing for Saturn and Saab. Cadillac shows promise and has redesigned it's image. They're making great family cars and the XLR has it's own coupe vert market.
So now Pontiac and Chevy. The GTO is basically marketed to guys who want performance but still have to take the rugrats to Little League (or soccer as the case seems to be). It's not bad at all perfomance wise (very comparable to the F-Bod) but I don't like it's looks. It looks like a Grand Am with more weight. That's totally subjective and many others will disagree. It's America, so disagree until you're blue in the face or your fingers bleed from excessive key strokes. Pontiac does not make any car that I would part with a Benjamin Franklin over.
Chevy has the Vette, mid-sized family cars, trucks, mini vans, and compacts. Notice anything missing? Yeah, the pony/muscle car. That's us for those of you still reading. We are a smaller section of the population than our parents and our progeny. Who are they going to go after? It's a corporation!! It's main objective is to make money!
I'm a Bowtie guy, always have been. I generally do not like Fords. But if Ford gets its act together and makes the new Mustang scream with HP, I will be tempted. It's the only one left (unfortunately). Yes, I feel the dark side calling (must... resist.... Cryptonite aka HP... is... strong). Especially if it's 400 RWHP for around $35K. And I like the retro look they're using in 2005. Again, totally subjective.
In the meantime, I'll just mod my Z, hopefully produce 3 productive, upstanding members of society and pay for the braces, college, and mortgage. But the Vette is never too far from my psyche. Someday baby... someday.
Performance cars are designed for two basic demographics: The young who want fun and excitement on a low budget or the middle age with deeper pockets and want more refinement for their cash.
I will not drive a "sporty" FWD 4 banger for fun. I understand WRX's, STI's, SRT's, et al, are all the rage for todays younger crowd and are quick. Sorry, no disrespect to that crowd, it's just not my scene. I like RWD 8 cylinders with deep exhaust. With three kids and a mortgage, I can't afford a C6 (yet). So here we are. Pining for the glory days clinging on to a hope that GM will hear us and develop a RWD, V-8 Messiah under $35K. Bad news... it ain't gonna happen.
I think GM has missed the boat and sold us out. The GTO is a decent automobile. I won't get into an argument about it's not REALLY American, etc. All cars are made from parts manufactured somewhere else. So let that argument be tabled. But I won't buy one.
GM should have kept the idea of a bigger, more storage friendly car like the original GTO. Wedged in a LS1,2,6... whatever. They should have just designed it new with a little wider appeal and a few 10ths slower than the Vette. The GTO is the grandaddy of muscle and I expected a little more. No offense to the GTO guys, I just don't like it. I'll stick with my dinosaur F-Bod and keep it for sh_ts, giggles, and posterity.
I feel GM's new line is complete crap but the only thing worse is most of the Japanese (Corp Headquarters only) line-up. Lets take the easy one's first. Buick and Olds: Does anyone under 60 buy them? The GN was great but that was almost 20 years ago. Enough said. The Hummer is in a class of it's own and doesn't fit this argument. Same thing for Saturn and Saab. Cadillac shows promise and has redesigned it's image. They're making great family cars and the XLR has it's own coupe vert market.
So now Pontiac and Chevy. The GTO is basically marketed to guys who want performance but still have to take the rugrats to Little League (or soccer as the case seems to be). It's not bad at all perfomance wise (very comparable to the F-Bod) but I don't like it's looks. It looks like a Grand Am with more weight. That's totally subjective and many others will disagree. It's America, so disagree until you're blue in the face or your fingers bleed from excessive key strokes. Pontiac does not make any car that I would part with a Benjamin Franklin over.
Chevy has the Vette, mid-sized family cars, trucks, mini vans, and compacts. Notice anything missing? Yeah, the pony/muscle car. That's us for those of you still reading. We are a smaller section of the population than our parents and our progeny. Who are they going to go after? It's a corporation!! It's main objective is to make money!
I'm a Bowtie guy, always have been. I generally do not like Fords. But if Ford gets its act together and makes the new Mustang scream with HP, I will be tempted. It's the only one left (unfortunately). Yes, I feel the dark side calling (must... resist.... Cryptonite aka HP... is... strong). Especially if it's 400 RWHP for around $35K. And I like the retro look they're using in 2005. Again, totally subjective.
In the meantime, I'll just mod my Z, hopefully produce 3 productive, upstanding members of society and pay for the braces, college, and mortgage. But the Vette is never too far from my psyche. Someday baby... someday.
05-06-2004, 08:58 PM
#84
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Sad thing is, the GTO is the better car. I will be selling my T/A to purchase a GTO. After driving a GTO I realize just how crappy built my T/A really is. What really bothers me is the interior of the T/A. Feels very cheap and the T/A interior is leaps and bounds better than the camaro interior. The exhaust on the fbods, come on, single in, dual out. Thats a joke and I never liked that. The GTO may not scream look at me but it doesnt have to. Its a well built car and we all know its based on the monaro with the pontiacs tell tale front end so what is your point?
05-06-2004, 11:20 PM
#85
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I'm 23 years old with no kids and I have owned 3 different F-bodys and I would take this GTO over any of them. I'm just tired of the look of the F-bodys! I'm just wondering if I should wait to see if they do up the ponys on next years.
05-07-2004, 08:55 PM
#86
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lol, whoever started this post must have known they were going to open a can of worms. as far as car preferences go, to each their own. i just personally think GM should have involved its customers more in deciding the new look for the GTO as what has been witnessed in this thread is only indicative of what the general public feels....they needed to introduce a style that would lure buyers AWAY from the mustang and they(IMHO) will not accomplish that with the current design of the GTO, especially with the new generation mustangs coming out. i do not hear of anyone saying "OMG, i love the new style of the GTO". anyhow, like i said, some will like the subdued styling but i will always keep my WS6 for its head turning appeal.
PS...General Motors, if you're listening, bring back the fbody for Gods sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS...General Motors, if you're listening, bring back the fbody for Gods sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
05-10-2004, 05:47 PM
#89
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I agree, the GTO looks plain, but look what this person did. Pontiac should take notes.
https://ls1tech.com/forums//showpost...92&postcount=9
https://ls1tech.com/forums//showpost...92&postcount=9
05-10-2004, 07:48 PM
#90
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OMG, i love the new style of the GTO. there, somebody said it. in case it's gone over too many heads, the GTO wasn't meant to compete with the mustang which is ford's top sports car (let's leave the $150,000 ford gt out of it). the corvette does a good job of competing with the mustang. the GTO is in a class by itself and it IS classy. i plan on using mine to drive myself around and once in a while bring the wife along too.
it looks like a pontiac. what a concept. have you ever looked at an old GTO and it's contemporary siblings? it looked just like a tempest/lemans with fake hood scoops because it was. buy your mustangs and cars that get lost in the pack. i'll take the unigue, classy, performance vehicle ... the GTO.
it looks like a pontiac. what a concept. have you ever looked at an old GTO and it's contemporary siblings? it looked just like a tempest/lemans with fake hood scoops because it was. buy your mustangs and cars that get lost in the pack. i'll take the unigue, classy, performance vehicle ... the GTO.
05-11-2004, 07:03 PM
#91
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To each there own. These are unique and powerful cars.
2001 WS6 (Bad A$$ in my book)
2002 Camaro (another Bad A$$ ride, IMO)
2004 GTO (too conservative for me, but ***** to the wall fast)
2002 Grand Am Ram Air (many references to styling similiarities with GTO, you decide)
2002 Holden Monaro (the Father or twin of the new GTO, IMO the Holden has nicer badging and design but still a bit conservative)
ENJOY!
2001 WS6 (Bad A$$ in my book)
2002 Camaro (another Bad A$$ ride, IMO)
2004 GTO (too conservative for me, but ***** to the wall fast)
2002 Grand Am Ram Air (many references to styling similiarities with GTO, you decide)
2002 Holden Monaro (the Father or twin of the new GTO, IMO the Holden has nicer badging and design but still a bit conservative)
ENJOY!
05-11-2004, 08:01 PM
#92
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Huh. Looking at the various riceboy cars and then looking at the various F-bodies, I see nothing to compare. You call the styling ricey and say the F-bodies are laughed at around the world. I say you're giving a personal opinion and trying to legitimize it with a blanket statement that has little if any basis in fact. I have seen nothing but respect for the F-bodies, offering very sleek and aggressive appearances and performance to match, and a price that's FAR below what you'd pay for some European sportscar
Unlike the fbods, the monaro's desigtn have been praised for many years around the world (apart from america). The brits love the car, the NZ'rs love the car and the Arabs love the car. Do some research, im sure youll find most OS reviews have been positive.
If nothing else, they're missed by the competition as cool and powerful opponents. The only thing I've ever seen the F-bodies ridiculed over is the cheap plastic interior trim and too much chassis flex
awesome BMW and Porsche eating C5 been turned loose on F-body design.
05-11-2004, 08:07 PM
#93
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No disrespect taken. Nothing anybody else says takes the silly grin off of my face when I think about going out to drive, and the times I just go out to drive, because being in my car is the best stress relief (next to sex of course).
05-11-2004, 08:13 PM
#94
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But you are right the Tempest was rebadged and with a bigger engine for street and drag racing. NOT touring the country, that is why there is the BMW 3 series and Holden Monaro. And GTO was exclusive to cars like Ferrari at that time. So I can see the Ferrari comparison
05-11-2004, 08:20 PM
#95
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Well guys, we've been ousted. We Generation X'ers are losing favor. I will be out of the 18-34 year old demographic in September. That's why the F-Bod is dead (RIP) and never to return. I love my 2000 Z-28 but we are now in the minority.
It seems that many americans dont want OS cars, on the other hand its been americans who have profited the most from globalisation. Unfortunately you cant have it both ways.
05-11-2004, 08:27 PM
#96
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the GTO is in a class by itself and it IS classy. i plan on using mine to drive myself around and once in a while bring the wife along too.
'Champagne quality at lager prices.' That's Vauxhall's verdict on the forthcoming Monaro
And 'bold' is definitely one of the words you could use to describe it, thanks to its in-yer-face styling and 5.7-litre V8 engine...
No doubt, then, that this is a pure muscle car in the old-school tradition. Or is it? With twin front and side airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners, anti-submarining ramps and even (pah, eeeuw, ptui) child restraint anchor points, as well as an LED centre brake light, active front head restraints and seat backs and various failure warning systems, the safety spec reads more like that of a sensible family car.
No, hang on, it can't be a sensible family car. Not with leather, cruise, dual-zone climate, power everything, park assist, trip computer, smart wipers and headlamps, six-disc CD ICE with wheel-mounted controls, alloy pedals and advanced NVH counter-measures... that all sounds more like the preserve of a pretty high-ranking exec model.
But then, what's this? Sports suspension, switchable traction control (aka a fun button), a rear LSD, 18-inch alloys with 235/40 R18 tyres and a special 'make noise' exhaust... you might even be forgiven for picking up more of a super-coupe vibe from it. Especially as there'll be a 380bhp version coming along in the summer, featuring 'all of the above and much, much more.'
Confused yet? It's a supercar, a family car (albeit only with two doors), a luxury car... is the Monaro all things to everyone, possibly? Well, with that sort of price tag it might also start giving the value-or-death brigade a bit of a bleeding nose - because as Vauxhall modestly points out, it costs 20% less than a Mercedes CLK 320, 25% less than a BMW M3 and 40% less than a BMW 6 Series.
As the chorus of 'yes, buts' starts to build, let's also add Vauxhall's note that the £24,000 Nissan 350Z is a 'good performer' but can't 'truly rival the impressive 329bhp of Monaro.' Discuss.
And 'bold' is definitely one of the words you could use to describe it, thanks to its in-yer-face styling and 5.7-litre V8 engine...
No doubt, then, that this is a pure muscle car in the old-school tradition. Or is it? With twin front and side airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners, anti-submarining ramps and even (pah, eeeuw, ptui) child restraint anchor points, as well as an LED centre brake light, active front head restraints and seat backs and various failure warning systems, the safety spec reads more like that of a sensible family car.
No, hang on, it can't be a sensible family car. Not with leather, cruise, dual-zone climate, power everything, park assist, trip computer, smart wipers and headlamps, six-disc CD ICE with wheel-mounted controls, alloy pedals and advanced NVH counter-measures... that all sounds more like the preserve of a pretty high-ranking exec model.
But then, what's this? Sports suspension, switchable traction control (aka a fun button), a rear LSD, 18-inch alloys with 235/40 R18 tyres and a special 'make noise' exhaust... you might even be forgiven for picking up more of a super-coupe vibe from it. Especially as there'll be a 380bhp version coming along in the summer, featuring 'all of the above and much, much more.'
Confused yet? It's a supercar, a family car (albeit only with two doors), a luxury car... is the Monaro all things to everyone, possibly? Well, with that sort of price tag it might also start giving the value-or-death brigade a bit of a bleeding nose - because as Vauxhall modestly points out, it costs 20% less than a Mercedes CLK 320, 25% less than a BMW M3 and 40% less than a BMW 6 Series.
As the chorus of 'yes, buts' starts to build, let's also add Vauxhall's note that the £24,000 Nissan 350Z is a 'good performer' but can't 'truly rival the impressive 329bhp of Monaro.' Discuss.
05-12-2004, 10:44 AM
#98
Originally Posted by monaroCountry
Action Jack the pictures of the GA ram air and the gto shows the (nearly non existant) similarities between the two cars (up close).
