Sell 02 z06 and get gto?
11-23-2005, 12:37 AM
#41
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LS1 GTO RUNS 13.5-14.0
LS2 GTO RUNS 13.0-13.5
LS1 C5 RUNS 13.0-13.5
LS6 C5 RUNS 12.4-12.9
The slowest stock 2002 z06 will beat the fastest 05 gto
the 1997 c5 will run dead even with the 05 GTO (drivers race)
GTO's base around 33 grand and can cost 40 grand (fully optioned)
C5's base around 45 grand and can cost 60 grand (fully optioned convertable)
C5Z's base around 50 grand and can cost 58 grand (fully loaded)
C5's have a word known reputation and was one of the best selling premium sports cars in the world...
GTO's are struggling to sell enough cars to warrant staying in production...There reception amongst the GTO loyalist has not been well received.
The only way I would go from a C5 to a GTO is if I went from a 1997-1998 high mileage C5 to a 2005 GTO. And that would only be if I couldnt afford a C5Z or C6.
33G's base compared to 45 G's base is not small potatoes....Thats 12 grand or roughly 30% more than a GTO.
A Zo6 cost 17 grand more base for base than a GTO...Thats 17 grand more base for base. Or roughly 50% more than a GTO.
THERE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME LEAGUE...
If I were having financial trouble and could no longer afford the C5 my next choice would be a GTO (a close 3rd would be a 03 cobra)
But if money wasnt an issue I would get a CTS V....
Z06 engine
better ride
people know it's expensive
NOW BEFORE I GET FLAMED FROM ALL THE F BODY AND 05 GTO GUYS ABOUT MONEY NOT MATTERING AND ALL THAT CRAP....
Guys....How much the car cost dose matter....
How many of you traded in your Z28 or bird for a C5 coupe knowing that the performance was gonna be about the same or maybe the C5 being a tenth or two better?
The reason people dream of owning C5's or now C6's is not only the performance and looks of the car....
But also the way it makes them look and feel to the rest of the world....The way your old high school friends look at you when they see you in a new Vette is priceless. The way people assume that your a somebody just cas your driving a C5...When really it's a 1997 C5 with 100,000 miles on it that you only paid 16,000 for and still happens to look knew. but hey they dont know that.
The point is that you dont get that feeling when you drive a 25-35G's base car. Sure people who are into racing and know how fast a 2005 GTO really is will probaly worship the ground you roll on...But even 65 year old women know that the Corvette is fast.
The 2005 GTO is a NICE car. Id rather have one than an SS camaro. And trust me that says a lot.
I used to work at a GM dealer and trust me I know how nice the GTO interior is.
JMHO....But cmon...any time some one says there trading in a Z06 for a GTO your gonna get some crazy responses..
It would be like me over on ViperAlly talking about how Im gonna trade my 2000 GTS for a a 2002 Zo6...
Your talking a 25grand price differance or roughly 50% more than the Vette...
Pretty much the same scenario.
LS2 GTO RUNS 13.0-13.5
LS1 C5 RUNS 13.0-13.5
LS6 C5 RUNS 12.4-12.9
The slowest stock 2002 z06 will beat the fastest 05 gto
the 1997 c5 will run dead even with the 05 GTO (drivers race)
GTO's base around 33 grand and can cost 40 grand (fully optioned)
C5's base around 45 grand and can cost 60 grand (fully optioned convertable)
C5Z's base around 50 grand and can cost 58 grand (fully loaded)
C5's have a word known reputation and was one of the best selling premium sports cars in the world...
GTO's are struggling to sell enough cars to warrant staying in production...There reception amongst the GTO loyalist has not been well received.
The only way I would go from a C5 to a GTO is if I went from a 1997-1998 high mileage C5 to a 2005 GTO. And that would only be if I couldnt afford a C5Z or C6.
33G's base compared to 45 G's base is not small potatoes....Thats 12 grand or roughly 30% more than a GTO.
A Zo6 cost 17 grand more base for base than a GTO...Thats 17 grand more base for base. Or roughly 50% more than a GTO.
THERE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME LEAGUE...
If I were having financial trouble and could no longer afford the C5 my next choice would be a GTO (a close 3rd would be a 03 cobra)
But if money wasnt an issue I would get a CTS V....
Z06 engine
better ride
people know it's expensive
NOW BEFORE I GET FLAMED FROM ALL THE F BODY AND 05 GTO GUYS ABOUT MONEY NOT MATTERING AND ALL THAT CRAP....
Guys....How much the car cost dose matter....
How many of you traded in your Z28 or bird for a C5 coupe knowing that the performance was gonna be about the same or maybe the C5 being a tenth or two better?
The reason people dream of owning C5's or now C6's is not only the performance and looks of the car....
But also the way it makes them look and feel to the rest of the world....The way your old high school friends look at you when they see you in a new Vette is priceless. The way people assume that your a somebody just cas your driving a C5...When really it's a 1997 C5 with 100,000 miles on it that you only paid 16,000 for and still happens to look knew. but hey they dont know that.
The point is that you dont get that feeling when you drive a 25-35G's base car. Sure people who are into racing and know how fast a 2005 GTO really is will probaly worship the ground you roll on...But even 65 year old women know that the Corvette is fast.
The 2005 GTO is a NICE car. Id rather have one than an SS camaro. And trust me that says a lot.
I used to work at a GM dealer and trust me I know how nice the GTO interior is.
JMHO....But cmon...any time some one says there trading in a Z06 for a GTO your gonna get some crazy responses..
It would be like me over on ViperAlly talking about how Im gonna trade my 2000 GTS for a a 2002 Zo6...
Your talking a 25grand price differance or roughly 50% more than the Vette...
Pretty much the same scenario.
11-23-2005, 09:18 AM
#42
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Nobody here is flaming Vettes or saying they are not nice cars. I used to own a 65 convertible.
First, to correct a statement in your post, the GTO does not come with any Factory Options other than a manual trans which actually lowers the MSRP. I paid $28,800 for mine, not $40K.
Everyone has different goals for their transportation. I considered buying a C6, but I wanted a car that could carry 4 adults, that pretty much eliminated the C6. So now it comes down to the CTS-V, BMW M3, or GTO. The M3 is a great car but with the right options, it was at $55K and in fact, does not have a lot of back seat room.
Next, the CTS-V. Again, it starts at over $50K and has the same HP rating as the GTO, in fact, in 2006 is has the same engine. I just couldn't get my head around paying another $20K for a car that has the same engine and the GTO actually has more rear seat room. Both cars have IRS, both have Manual trans, both weigh about the same.
That left us with the GTO. I now have 15K on my 2005 and have taken several long trips >500 miles and can say it's the best car I've ever had. My last car was a 2002 BMW 330i.
And, finally, we have a slew of stock 2005 GTO's over on LS1gto.com who have put down high 12's and have posted time slips to back it up.
First, to correct a statement in your post, the GTO does not come with any Factory Options other than a manual trans which actually lowers the MSRP. I paid $28,800 for mine, not $40K.
Everyone has different goals for their transportation. I considered buying a C6, but I wanted a car that could carry 4 adults, that pretty much eliminated the C6. So now it comes down to the CTS-V, BMW M3, or GTO. The M3 is a great car but with the right options, it was at $55K and in fact, does not have a lot of back seat room.
Next, the CTS-V. Again, it starts at over $50K and has the same HP rating as the GTO, in fact, in 2006 is has the same engine. I just couldn't get my head around paying another $20K for a car that has the same engine and the GTO actually has more rear seat room. Both cars have IRS, both have Manual trans, both weigh about the same.
That left us with the GTO. I now have 15K on my 2005 and have taken several long trips >500 miles and can say it's the best car I've ever had. My last car was a 2002 BMW 330i.
And, finally, we have a slew of stock 2005 GTO's over on LS1gto.com who have put down high 12's and have posted time slips to back it up.
11-23-2005, 10:43 AM
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11-23-2005, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by djray77
This Vette gets owned! Get a GTO..
http://www.zippyvideos.com/188514970691435.html
http://www.zippyvideos.com/188514970691435.html
11-23-2005, 11:45 AM
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Hey...Lets not be childish..
The C5 and 2005 GTO are dead even in the 1/4 mile....
They both run 13.0-13.5 with average drivers.
Both are capable of hitting 12's with great drivers on the right day at the right track...
Ive personaly raped a stock 05 GTO at the track when my car was stock. Best he managed was a 13.9 to my 13.6 on the same day at the same track...
I tried to explain to him how significant the heat soak problem was on his engine and to let the car kool down for 20 minutes or so but he wouldnt listen and was just pissed at the cars performance.
THE POINT IS....
FOR EVERY GTO THAT EVER PULLED A STOCK C5...THERES A STOCK C5 THAT PULLED A STOCK 05 GTO...
They are dead even guys.....
Every riview ever written has them running 13.0-13.4 at 106-109 mph....
Both are in the 4.6-5.0 0-60 range...
You can brows through all the different owners of C5's and 05 GTO's on this site and see that bone stock they all ran low to mid 13's...
So when it comes to just raw straight line performance.....A decision would be hard between these two...
For a car that plans to be raced around turns...The C5 would be the better choice.....
For the bling bling affect..A C5 would be the better choice....
For comfort and daily driving the GTO is better...
RIGHT NOW I WOULDNT MIND HAVING A GTO...
Ive got a 2001 Navigator...The C5 and a Saturn...
My wife drives the Nav for her buisness everyday...
For the past week Ive been letting my cousin drive my Saturn for his new job.
Ive got 4 kids....ages ....11...6.....4....2
The 11 and 6 year old have to be picken up from school at 2 0 clock everyday...
With the Saturn I just put my 2 year old in the car seat...My 4 year old sat up front with me and the 11 and 6 year old hopped in the back when I picked them up from school..
But with the C5 it's totaly different..
There no wear to put my two little ones and the 11 and 6 year old would have to both ride in the front seat ( wich is illegal )
So even though Ive got a perfectly good running car...
Ive got to walk the mile to my kids school every day pulling the two little ones in a wagon...
IT REALLY SUCKS.
The C5 and 2005 GTO are dead even in the 1/4 mile....
They both run 13.0-13.5 with average drivers.
Both are capable of hitting 12's with great drivers on the right day at the right track...
Ive personaly raped a stock 05 GTO at the track when my car was stock. Best he managed was a 13.9 to my 13.6 on the same day at the same track...
I tried to explain to him how significant the heat soak problem was on his engine and to let the car kool down for 20 minutes or so but he wouldnt listen and was just pissed at the cars performance.
THE POINT IS....
FOR EVERY GTO THAT EVER PULLED A STOCK C5...THERES A STOCK C5 THAT PULLED A STOCK 05 GTO...
They are dead even guys.....
Every riview ever written has them running 13.0-13.4 at 106-109 mph....
Both are in the 4.6-5.0 0-60 range...
You can brows through all the different owners of C5's and 05 GTO's on this site and see that bone stock they all ran low to mid 13's...
So when it comes to just raw straight line performance.....A decision would be hard between these two...
For a car that plans to be raced around turns...The C5 would be the better choice.....
For the bling bling affect..A C5 would be the better choice....
For comfort and daily driving the GTO is better...
RIGHT NOW I WOULDNT MIND HAVING A GTO...
Ive got a 2001 Navigator...The C5 and a Saturn...
My wife drives the Nav for her buisness everyday...
For the past week Ive been letting my cousin drive my Saturn for his new job.
Ive got 4 kids....ages ....11...6.....4....2
The 11 and 6 year old have to be picken up from school at 2 0 clock everyday...
With the Saturn I just put my 2 year old in the car seat...My 4 year old sat up front with me and the 11 and 6 year old hopped in the back when I picked them up from school..
But with the C5 it's totaly different..
There no wear to put my two little ones and the 11 and 6 year old would have to both ride in the front seat ( wich is illegal )
So even though Ive got a perfectly good running car...
Ive got to walk the mile to my kids school every day pulling the two little ones in a wagon...
IT REALLY SUCKS.
11-23-2005, 11:50 AM
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Oh btw when I worked at GM here in Hawaii...
The MSRP for the GTO was 33,000...Then the mn6 was a 2 grand option...
Bringing price to 35 grand....Then there was also a 5 grand mark up for adjusted availability...
The car was 40 grand and we wouldnt sell it for less than 37 grand.
The MSRP for the GTO was 33,000...Then the mn6 was a 2 grand option...
Bringing price to 35 grand....Then there was also a 5 grand mark up for adjusted availability...
The car was 40 grand and we wouldnt sell it for less than 37 grand.
11-23-2005, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by djray77
I guess the vette in that video was just weak (maybe beat to death) cause they raced 3 times and the GTO won all 3.
11-23-2005, 12:19 PM
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no, but as you can see in that video they both get good starts and the GTO just hammers on the vette between 1-2. It doesnt suprise me cause them C5 have what 345hp at the crank?? and the 05 GTO has that at the wheels.
I wish my brother still had his C6, I would of loved to run him just to see how bad he would have won.
I wish my brother still had his C6, I would of loved to run him just to see how bad he would have won.
Last edited by djray77; 11-23-2005 at 12:30 PM.
11-23-2005, 08:52 PM
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DJray77...
Your seriously joking right.....
Acoording to motor Trend the 2005 GTO weighs 3765 pounds!!!!!!
So well give it a weight of 3700-3800 pounds...
The C5 weighs around 3270 pounds...
So well give it a weight of 3200-3300 pounds..
Even if you compare the heaviest c5 (3300 pounds) to the lightest GTO (3700 pounds)....
You still have a 400 pound weight advantage for the C5....AT A MINIMUM...
REALISTICALY IT'S CLOSER TO 500 POUNDS....BUT FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE WELL SAY 4OO....
The typical Gto dynos 330-340 rwhp..
The typical C5 dynos 290-300 rwhp ...
They can both dyno higher bone stock but this is normal what you will see..
PLEASE DONT START TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU SAW A BONE STOCK C5 DYNO 312 OR A BONE STOCK GTO DYNO 355....
THESE ARE NOT NORMAL REPRESENTATIONS OF WHAT THESE CARS DO STOCK
So there is normally a 40 rwhp differance....
Every 10 rwhp is a 1 tenth advantage for the GTO...
So the GTO's 4 tenths faster right? WRONG...
every 100 pounds is a 1 tenth advantage for the C5...
So the 400 pound weight advantage of the C5 has eraesed the extra 40 rwhp advantage of the GTO.
Bringing them back to what I stated earlier...DEAD EVEN..
AS FAR AS TOURQUE....
The GTO has 400 pounds
The C5 has 375 pounds
What do you think has a better tourqe to weight ratio..
The 3700 pound GTO with 400 pound feet
Or the 3300 pound C5 with 375 pound feet
The C5 is the clear winner when it comes to Tourque/weight
The C5 also has better arodynamics wich allow a bone stock C5 to reach 175 mph.
The C5 is in the 66-68 mph range in the 600 ft salom..
The GTO is in the 62-64 mph range (63.6 by MT )
The C5 is in the 0.91-0.95 G's range on a 200 ft skid pad
The GTO is in the 0.84-0.88 G's range on a 200 ft skid pad (0.85 G's in MT)
The C5 is by far the better performing vehicle in all areas...
EXCEPT STRAIGHT LINE PERFORMANCE...WHERE THEY ARE DEAD EVEN.
If money wasnt an issue.....Given the choice MOST people would prefer a 3280 pound car that runs low 13's....Than a 3765 pound car that runs low 13's....
So go ahead and claim that you killed an C5 with your 2005 GTO....
I wouldnt doubt you for a second....I also wouldnt doubt any one in a C5 that said he killed a 05 GTO....
It just comes down to the driver and dumb luck...
Ive seen some stock C5's only dyno 285 rwhp.....A factory weak one...
You pit one of these against a factory healthy GTO that dynoed 348 rwhp and it's lights out for the C5...
Ive read of stock 05 GTO's dynoing 328...
You pit one of these against a stock C5 that dynoed 305 and it's lights out for the GTO with both drivers being equal...
Thats just how close they are guys...
So now to show you how close it really is....
Lets say the typical C5 dynos 295 rwhp....
Lets say the typical 05 GTO dynos 340 rwhp...
Then lets divide them by the highest weight for a C5 and the lowest weight for a GTO..
3300 pounds for the C5
3700 pounds for the GTO..
First the C5...3,300 pounds divided by 300 rwhp= 11.0 actual pounds per RWHP
Now the GTO...3,700 pounds divided by 340 rwhp=10.8 actual pounds per rwhp
YOU SEE HOW CLOSE IT IS EVEN WITH A HEAVY C5 VRS A LIGHT GTO???
Now lets tray the same thing with but this time with there actual weights...
First the C5...3270 pounds divided by 300 rwhp = 10.9 lbs per rwhp
Now the 05 GTO...3765 pounds divided by 340 rwhp = 11.0 lbs per rwhp
You see guys...You cant get a closer match up than these two cars....
BASICLY WHO EVER GOT LUCKY AND GOT THE STRONGER ONE FROM THE FACTORY WILL BE THE WINNER BY A CAR LENGHT IF DRIVERS ARE EQUAL.
If you dont think my rwhp numbers of 300 rwhp for the C5 and 340 rwhp for the GTO is a fair representation of what they usualy put down on the dyno...
Just use the factory HP ratings and weights...
C5...3270 pounds divided by 350 HP = 9.34 lbs per HP
05 GTO....3765 pounds divided by 400 HP = 9.41 lbs per HP
Of course you could go find a mag some where that says a stock 05 GTO only weighs 3690 pounds and find another one that says a C5 weighs 3310 pounds...
Or exactly the opposite with a mag saying the GTO weighs 3790 pounds and the C5 weighing 3230 pounds....
THE POINT IS THAT IT DOSENT GET ANY CLOSER THAN THIS AND IN STRAIGHT LINE PERFORMANCE THEY SHOULD BOTH RESPECT EACH OTHER...
Your seriously joking right.....
Acoording to motor Trend the 2005 GTO weighs 3765 pounds!!!!!!
So well give it a weight of 3700-3800 pounds...
The C5 weighs around 3270 pounds...
So well give it a weight of 3200-3300 pounds..
Even if you compare the heaviest c5 (3300 pounds) to the lightest GTO (3700 pounds)....
You still have a 400 pound weight advantage for the C5....AT A MINIMUM...
REALISTICALY IT'S CLOSER TO 500 POUNDS....BUT FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE WELL SAY 4OO....
The typical Gto dynos 330-340 rwhp..
The typical C5 dynos 290-300 rwhp ...
They can both dyno higher bone stock but this is normal what you will see..
PLEASE DONT START TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU SAW A BONE STOCK C5 DYNO 312 OR A BONE STOCK GTO DYNO 355....
THESE ARE NOT NORMAL REPRESENTATIONS OF WHAT THESE CARS DO STOCK
So there is normally a 40 rwhp differance....
Every 10 rwhp is a 1 tenth advantage for the GTO...
So the GTO's 4 tenths faster right? WRONG...
every 100 pounds is a 1 tenth advantage for the C5...
So the 400 pound weight advantage of the C5 has eraesed the extra 40 rwhp advantage of the GTO.
Bringing them back to what I stated earlier...DEAD EVEN..
AS FAR AS TOURQUE....
The GTO has 400 pounds
The C5 has 375 pounds
What do you think has a better tourqe to weight ratio..
The 3700 pound GTO with 400 pound feet
Or the 3300 pound C5 with 375 pound feet
The C5 is the clear winner when it comes to Tourque/weight
The C5 also has better arodynamics wich allow a bone stock C5 to reach 175 mph.
The C5 is in the 66-68 mph range in the 600 ft salom..
The GTO is in the 62-64 mph range (63.6 by MT )
The C5 is in the 0.91-0.95 G's range on a 200 ft skid pad
The GTO is in the 0.84-0.88 G's range on a 200 ft skid pad (0.85 G's in MT)
The C5 is by far the better performing vehicle in all areas...
EXCEPT STRAIGHT LINE PERFORMANCE...WHERE THEY ARE DEAD EVEN.
If money wasnt an issue.....Given the choice MOST people would prefer a 3280 pound car that runs low 13's....Than a 3765 pound car that runs low 13's....
So go ahead and claim that you killed an C5 with your 2005 GTO....
I wouldnt doubt you for a second....I also wouldnt doubt any one in a C5 that said he killed a 05 GTO....
It just comes down to the driver and dumb luck...
Ive seen some stock C5's only dyno 285 rwhp.....A factory weak one...
You pit one of these against a factory healthy GTO that dynoed 348 rwhp and it's lights out for the C5...
Ive read of stock 05 GTO's dynoing 328...
You pit one of these against a stock C5 that dynoed 305 and it's lights out for the GTO with both drivers being equal...
Thats just how close they are guys...
So now to show you how close it really is....
Lets say the typical C5 dynos 295 rwhp....
Lets say the typical 05 GTO dynos 340 rwhp...
Then lets divide them by the highest weight for a C5 and the lowest weight for a GTO..
3300 pounds for the C5
3700 pounds for the GTO..
First the C5...3,300 pounds divided by 300 rwhp= 11.0 actual pounds per RWHP
Now the GTO...3,700 pounds divided by 340 rwhp=10.8 actual pounds per rwhp
YOU SEE HOW CLOSE IT IS EVEN WITH A HEAVY C5 VRS A LIGHT GTO???
Now lets tray the same thing with but this time with there actual weights...
First the C5...3270 pounds divided by 300 rwhp = 10.9 lbs per rwhp
Now the 05 GTO...3765 pounds divided by 340 rwhp = 11.0 lbs per rwhp
You see guys...You cant get a closer match up than these two cars....
BASICLY WHO EVER GOT LUCKY AND GOT THE STRONGER ONE FROM THE FACTORY WILL BE THE WINNER BY A CAR LENGHT IF DRIVERS ARE EQUAL.
If you dont think my rwhp numbers of 300 rwhp for the C5 and 340 rwhp for the GTO is a fair representation of what they usualy put down on the dyno...
Just use the factory HP ratings and weights...
C5...3270 pounds divided by 350 HP = 9.34 lbs per HP
05 GTO....3765 pounds divided by 400 HP = 9.41 lbs per HP
Of course you could go find a mag some where that says a stock 05 GTO only weighs 3690 pounds and find another one that says a C5 weighs 3310 pounds...
Or exactly the opposite with a mag saying the GTO weighs 3790 pounds and the C5 weighing 3230 pounds....
THE POINT IS THAT IT DOSENT GET ANY CLOSER THAN THIS AND IN STRAIGHT LINE PERFORMANCE THEY SHOULD BOTH RESPECT EACH OTHER...
11-24-2005, 01:32 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by mpe488
I would definitely look into the 04 GTO for 20 grand. IT's making about 30 rwhp more than a stock 05 and its cheaper. The only thing that sounds bad about it is it need rear wheels badly... you know what that means. Lots of burnouts, donuts, who knows what else. The guy might have beat on the engine, but for the price it might still be worth it!
Well, the car ended up getting sold to Carmax for 19500.
My driving style IS spirited but almost 400rwhp and stock 245's = LOTS of wheel spin. The hospital I work at is 5 miles away and 99% of the time I just used to car to get to and from work, I just always made sure to make the most of it
Too bad your cousin didnt get a hold of me, maybe we could have made a deal. I already own a C5 'vert and just itching to get a Z06
12-07-2005, 03:17 PM
#53
I know this is done but thought I would add my own experience.
I sold my 02 Z06 bought a brand new 05 GTO and bought a new house for the wife!
I miss my Z06 and NO there is not a GTO without an enormous amount of $ spent on it that could have come close to beating my Vette that ran 11.90's when it was cam only with me babying it out of the hole on stock F1's - I
eventually went with TEA heads to make the vette an absolute ANIMAL!
Don't get me wrong I like the GTO and it is by far a more comfortable car for me as a daily driver but when it comes to spirited driving I don't want to think about how much money it would cost me to get my GTO to even come close to competing with my Z06..
The weight is obviously what hurts the GTO the most and as said before the car is more comfortable and has a better stereo etc but I know that I am by far not the king of the road as far as daily drivers like I used to be!
I sold my 02 Z06 bought a brand new 05 GTO and bought a new house for the wife!
I miss my Z06 and NO there is not a GTO without an enormous amount of $ spent on it that could have come close to beating my Vette that ran 11.90's when it was cam only with me babying it out of the hole on stock F1's - I
eventually went with TEA heads to make the vette an absolute ANIMAL!
Don't get me wrong I like the GTO and it is by far a more comfortable car for me as a daily driver but when it comes to spirited driving I don't want to think about how much money it would cost me to get my GTO to even come close to competing with my Z06..
The weight is obviously what hurts the GTO the most and as said before the car is more comfortable and has a better stereo etc but I know that I am by far not the king of the road as far as daily drivers like I used to be!
12-16-2005, 10:35 PM
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And, you can't get four adults in a vette or a camaro. They are different cars with different purposes. You can make any one of them run 9s. You have to decided what you want in a car and then buy the best.
