How is the ls1 on the road course?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
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How is the ls1 on the road course? How does the ls1 style engine handle sustained high rpm for 20 mins at a time on a road course? How about n/a ? How about with s/c or turbo?
Whats the best route for an ls1 style motor that wants roughly 500-550rwhp and wants it to last long on a road course?
Whats the best route for an ls1 style motor that wants roughly 500-550rwhp and wants it to last long on a road course?
First item you will need to deal with is oil control, look in to getting a Canton accusump system and remote filter mount about $375.00, don't waste your money on pulling the K-member and changing the pan baf. Unless you have all ready got tires and suspension worked out and have a lot of experience driving a road course why do you want to bump the HP so much for the track? spend your money on extra set of wheels with tires and some suspension work and lots practice time on the track. You will have a lot more fun than fighting a high HP car around the course that don't handle. And yes, as long as you get the oil control sorted out the LS1 it will take reasonable abuse.
Last edited by toadzq8; May 22, 2009 at 06:33 AM.
In addtiton to the pre-oiler (Accusump) noted above, you'll need an oil cooler. She'll reach 280*-300*F oil temps if you don't cool the oil; even when the coolant temp shows 230*F. Oil temp will easily out stretch the ability of the coolant to maintain it without an oil cooler.
Forget the SC/turbo, too hot intake air temps, IMO & not required. Best power on a road course is made under the curve, not peak. A mild cam w/ good flowing heads is better than a 550 peak HP high lift cam, on a road course any day, all day. Peak HP is best suited for drag racing. A nice 400-420 set up w/ good low end torque is your best bet.
+ another on tuning the suspension w/ good wheels & tires. This is a priority before any engine mods; otherwise you'll never get the power to the pavement in a manner beneficial to lap times. Good-luck
Forget the SC/turbo, too hot intake air temps, IMO & not required. Best power on a road course is made under the curve, not peak. A mild cam w/ good flowing heads is better than a 550 peak HP high lift cam, on a road course any day, all day. Peak HP is best suited for drag racing. A nice 400-420 set up w/ good low end torque is your best bet.
I ran a sc for about a year before it blew up. Just too much maintenance required to keep it cool and running. I have a na 402 now with 100 less rwhp and it is still faster down the backstretch at VIR than the sc'd motor. Plus it will drive all day.
Before I had the Z06, I tracked my stock '02 WS6. You can drive the crap out of it all day and then drive it home. Never any issues (except for brakes!!!). A na motor with plenty of low end will do you well. It will be the most fun you can ever have in your car legally.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3
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Thanks for the replies.
I know suspension and tires is more beneficial than RWHP, but I love power.
My current car has subframes, coilovers, IRS suspension, etc
My goal is a car that can drive to the drag strip, run mid 11's or better, then drive to autox or road course and have some fun. Not looking to be competitive in any specific classes. I just want to go get my adrenaline fix.
I currently have a 470+rwhp mustang that runs mid 11s (doesnt hook well) that I also autox and drive on the street once in a while. I don't think it will take the abuse of a road course tho (supercharged stock short block) and was considering a jump to a firebird since I've always loved them.
I know suspension and tires is more beneficial than RWHP, but I love power.
My current car has subframes, coilovers, IRS suspension, etc
My goal is a car that can drive to the drag strip, run mid 11's or better, then drive to autox or road course and have some fun. Not looking to be competitive in any specific classes. I just want to go get my adrenaline fix.
I currently have a 470+rwhp mustang that runs mid 11s (doesnt hook well) that I also autox and drive on the street once in a while. I don't think it will take the abuse of a road course tho (supercharged stock short block) and was considering a jump to a firebird since I've always loved them.
you dont have to drop the K member to install a baffle. ive done it and its worth buying, especially if youre NOT competing, like the OP is. if youre talking a no expense spared, all out racecar, then thats different. but then youre not going to have a dual purpose street/track car.
you really dont need so much extra power, especially for an autox. youll never get a chance to use the power, as nearly all autoxs take place under 60mph top speed, and in 2nd gear only. so much more will only make you spin out so often youll want to drop 100hp just to stay on track.
you really dont need so much extra power, especially for an autox. youll never get a chance to use the power, as nearly all autoxs take place under 60mph top speed, and in 2nd gear only. so much more will only make you spin out so often youll want to drop 100hp just to stay on track.
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[QUOTE=tavi_ws6;11636793]im not positive about your first question, but your not going to get a 550rwhp from an NA ls1, close to 500 from a 383 stroker[/QUOTE/]
He is saying LS1 "style"
I think high rpms for that long, wouldnt be a huge issue, IF the oiling will be consistent and setup for road racing...
Now Im not saying the stock rods and pistons are made to do that, but Im assuming if oiling was always constant in lubricating the moving parts, then it shouldnt be a huge issue
He is saying LS1 "style"
I think high rpms for that long, wouldnt be a huge issue, IF the oiling will be consistent and setup for road racing...
Now Im not saying the stock rods and pistons are made to do that, but Im assuming if oiling was always constant in lubricating the moving parts, then it shouldnt be a huge issue
Well if you have ur suspension, tires, and weight sorted out then...Yes look into a bigger qt oilpan to keep it oil'd and a good oil cooler, and get either katech or ARP rod bolts since they will be the weak point in the bottom end when autocrossing and roadracing on a stock LS1, since your varying the RPMS a lot, it stresses them. Then get a nice little low lift cam that makes good overall HP and torque and have fun. otherwise if your spending real money get a big cube 400+ci forged bottom end and spend money on some great heads, and just do a mild cam with low lift and as mentioned keep it oiled well so look into dry sumps and keep it cooled and it will run all day and night and get you to and from work the next workday.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 369
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From: Easton, MA
I'm prob over where you want to be... I'm SC (D1) and I have around 640ish RWHP (I Dyno'd 614 with 2 pounds less boost), I just ran at NHMS 2 weeks ago in 91 degree weather, my coolant temps were 210-ish and my oil was 280-ish, I had changed rear gears to 3.73's and my rpm's were too high when trying to stay in 3rd, all I did was hang on for dear life! LOL In 3rd anything over 4,300 rpm I lost it, had to stay in 4th which worked out pretty well, I lifted only in a few places but believe me when I say… anything over 500 is a waste when RR IMO. I used to have a blast when the car had around 400 to 425 RWHP, I could flat foot it most anywhere on the track depending on the gear I was running or the gear I was in but now I am lifting most everywhere and often break the tires loose and find myself having to actually drive the crap out of it everywhere on the course which you might think was fun but seriously it is dangerous... I bet I ran faster times when I was in the low 400 range. If you want the rush go right ahead and add more power but make sure you bring extra sets of underwear 
Oh and I am running Meth which totally helps me keep the temps down, I would over heat if I didn’t have it and I also have a huge radiator too… My advice... go NA and shoot for 450, that is easy to do and you will last long and have a blast. Oh and spend some $$ on brake pads, I use Carbotech’s and they are awesome! Good luck man…
Oh and I am running Meth which totally helps me keep the temps down, I would over heat if I didn’t have it and I also have a huge radiator too… My advice... go NA and shoot for 450, that is easy to do and you will last long and have a blast. Oh and spend some $$ on brake pads, I use Carbotech’s and they are awesome! Good luck man… I'm prob over where you want to be... I'm SC (D1) and I have around 640ish RWHP (I Dyno'd 614 with 2 pounds less boost), I just ran at NHMS 2 weeks ago in 91 degree weather, my coolant temps were 210-ish and my oil was 280-ish, I had changed rear gears to 3.73's and my rpm's were too high when trying to stay in 3rd, all I did was hang on for dear life! LOL In 3rd anything over 4,300 rpm I lost it, had to stay in 4th which worked out pretty well, I lifted only in a few places but believe me when I say… anything over 500 is a waste when RR IMO. I used to have a blast when the car had around 400 to 425 RWHP, I could flat foot it most anywhere on the track depending on the gear I was running or the gear I was in but now I am lifting most everywhere and often break the tires loose and find myself having to actually drive the crap out of it everywhere on the course which you might think was fun but seriously it is dangerous... I bet I ran faster times when I was in the low 400 range. If you want the rush go right ahead and add more power but make sure you bring extra sets of underwear Oh and I am running Meth which totally helps me keep the temps down, I would over heat if I didn’t have it and I also have a huge radiator too… My advice... go NA and shoot for 450, that is easy to do and you will last long and have a blast. Oh and spend some $$ on brake pads, I use Carbotech’s and they are awesome! Good luck man…
Oh and I am running Meth which totally helps me keep the temps down, I would over heat if I didn’t have it and I also have a huge radiator too… My advice... go NA and shoot for 450, that is easy to do and you will last long and have a blast. Oh and spend some $$ on brake pads, I use Carbotech’s and they are awesome! Good luck man…I dont fully agree...If your car is setup for it, you can make 620 or more hp and be faster, because of it... But your tires and suspension werent setup to handle that power, so thats why you kept losing it.. Dont get me wrong, Im confident that my car is also gonna lose control with having over 100 more tq than I used to have, and Im sure my suspension and tires isnt gonna be enough to handle it. But more power isnt a waste, if your car is setup to handle it..
and yes road racing isnt about all power.. its probably more to your advantage, if your suspension allows you to take corners faster and if your brakes allow you to brake later and stop faster, etc.and if you are lighter, etc.... But making lots of power isnt a weak point, you just have to learn to handle it, or set up your suspension to handle it(and tires).... etc..
But I kind of understand what you mean, I just dont wanna give people the impression that ALL road race cars must be low on power, or else theyll lose control or they cant put it all to use, etc.
More power is always better, if you can get it on the ground. F1 cars can get 800hp to the ground. Nascars can get 700 to the ground. I doubt you're going to get much more than 600 in a f-bod without radical redesigns (3-link custom rear suspension or similar).
Carbotech XP12s will last all day long and be as good on the last lap as the first.
Get the widest, stickiest tire you can. A friend has a 2nd-gen RX-7 w/ LS2. He ran 7 seconds faster just by going from 245s to 315s. Take-off slicks are the way to go.
We had 3 LS motors run an entire season, and none of us had a single oil pressure fluctuation. I had zero oil mods, except running 6.5-7 quarts. One other guy had an Accusump that never activated while racing. The third guy also had zero mods. You always hear about guys having issues, and there are a few on here. But, we haven't seen anything like that. And, all of the engine builders I've spoken to have seen "blown up race motors" but none that they could say was definitively an oil starvation issue.
Lose as much weight out of the car as possible. Helps accel, tires wear longer, brakes are better, suspension works better - there's no downside.
If your motor is stock, shift around 5500rpm. It runs out of power there anyway, so no need to rev it higher.
Carbotech XP12s will last all day long and be as good on the last lap as the first.
Get the widest, stickiest tire you can. A friend has a 2nd-gen RX-7 w/ LS2. He ran 7 seconds faster just by going from 245s to 315s. Take-off slicks are the way to go.
We had 3 LS motors run an entire season, and none of us had a single oil pressure fluctuation. I had zero oil mods, except running 6.5-7 quarts. One other guy had an Accusump that never activated while racing. The third guy also had zero mods. You always hear about guys having issues, and there are a few on here. But, we haven't seen anything like that. And, all of the engine builders I've spoken to have seen "blown up race motors" but none that they could say was definitively an oil starvation issue.
Lose as much weight out of the car as possible. Helps accel, tires wear longer, brakes are better, suspension works better - there's no downside.
If your motor is stock, shift around 5500rpm. It runs out of power there anyway, so no need to rev it higher.
Katech has been doing this for their GM racing teams for years. Price tag starts at around $15K, not including the oiling and cooling system upgrades.
Katech builds some good engines.
But, I don't want anyone thinking you HAVE to do special things to the engines to race. We have 5 LS1s that are essentially stock. Raced 8 full races this season with not a single problem. Not even a misfire. That's 40 races. Just put some more oil in them, make sure you got gas and water.
But, I don't want anyone thinking you HAVE to do special things to the engines to race. We have 5 LS1s that are essentially stock. Raced 8 full races this season with not a single problem. Not even a misfire. That's 40 races. Just put some more oil in them, make sure you got gas and water.
