Setting up car for Road/street. Help
08-05-2009, 04:03 PM
#41
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275/40/17. i have -1.2 and 1.3 camber, if you read my post on frrax. i probably could get more, but its going to be alot of trial and error involving taking the entire front susp. apart, back together, repeat repeat.
ive only had one very tight autox on them so far. but they were better then my nearly worn out 615s. this sunday is my first track day with them, albiet on another tight road course.
so R6 pressures are a good start?
ive only had one very tight autox on them so far. but they were better then my nearly worn out 615s. this sunday is my first track day with them, albiet on another tight road course.
so R6 pressures are a good start?
08-06-2009, 06:48 AM
#42
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what would autox pressures be? and road course......i looked on frrax but didnt find anything on R6s after 5min of reading back logs.
Last edited by EchoMirage; 08-06-2009 at 07:25 AM.
08-06-2009, 11:59 AM
#43
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Sorry, I thought they'd be around here or there somewhere.
Hoosier recommends about 180-200* temps for the R6, with 37-41psi (hot). What your starting pressures are depend upon the starting temps. Take temps at the beginning of the day. Or, if you're like me, just use the ambient temp.
Today is about 90*, so let's use that. I want to get them to 180*. Pressure rises about 1psi for every 10*. Also, I usually used around 5psi less in my rear tires than my fronts (autox experience that carried over to RR, and it works still).
So, I know that I'm going to gain about 9psi getting from 90* to 180*. If I want to be at 41F/36R, then I should start at 32F/26R.
That should be a good ballpark. You may want to mess around with the split front-to-back, or raise lower them together. But, it'll be close.
Hoosier recommends about 180-200* temps for the R6, with 37-41psi (hot). What your starting pressures are depend upon the starting temps. Take temps at the beginning of the day. Or, if you're like me, just use the ambient temp.
Today is about 90*, so let's use that. I want to get them to 180*. Pressure rises about 1psi for every 10*. Also, I usually used around 5psi less in my rear tires than my fronts (autox experience that carried over to RR, and it works still).
So, I know that I'm going to gain about 9psi getting from 90* to 180*. If I want to be at 41F/36R, then I should start at 32F/26R.
That should be a good ballpark. You may want to mess around with the split front-to-back, or raise lower them together. But, it'll be close.
08-06-2009, 12:49 PM
#44
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Not to beat a dead horse, but I agree with a few of the previous posts:
Forget the 12 bolt (at least for now).
If you must spend $...
1st- Buy a set of good street tires (Toyos, Nittos, or Flaken 615s) and you can drive them to the track. I'm of the mindset race tires hide driving mistakes especially in newer drivers.
2nd- Call up Strano and get Sway Bars, Konis, and Springs (and many will say a pan-hard bar).
3rd- Upgrade to C5 front brakes and good pads.
That said. Your best use of $ would be on drivers schools and track times. These cars usually put more on the table than a novice can use (myself included). I didn't need the brake upgrade until this year (after two successful seasons).
On a side note, you guys find -1.2 camber to be enough? Thats what I was running until this year. I purchased the GW front upper arms and went to -2.1. It might be different for me as I run street tire class w Toyo R1Rs. Tire wear seemed to imply I needed more neg camber...
Forget the 12 bolt (at least for now).
If you must spend $...
1st- Buy a set of good street tires (Toyos, Nittos, or Flaken 615s) and you can drive them to the track. I'm of the mindset race tires hide driving mistakes especially in newer drivers.
2nd- Call up Strano and get Sway Bars, Konis, and Springs (and many will say a pan-hard bar).
3rd- Upgrade to C5 front brakes and good pads.
That said. Your best use of $ would be on drivers schools and track times. These cars usually put more on the table than a novice can use (myself included). I didn't need the brake upgrade until this year (after two successful seasons).
On a side note, you guys find -1.2 camber to be enough? Thats what I was running until this year. I purchased the GW front upper arms and went to -2.1. It might be different for me as I run street tire class w Toyo R1Rs. Tire wear seemed to imply I needed more neg camber...
08-06-2009, 01:07 PM
#45
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-1.5 was fine for me. I'd cord the middle of front tires, with the whole tire looking like it was ready to come apart. This was with R6s, A6s, and V710s.
As for race tires, if you are comparing a new driver on race tires against someone on street tires, then they do mask some mistakes. However, as soon as you compare race tires to race tires, they are evident. Also, street tires are a LOT more forgiving of mistakes. If you get loose, they come back easier than if a race tire breaks loose. And, street tires give you audible clues to what's going on. Race tires make you feel it with your butt.
That said, it's more of an arguement of street tires for new guys. But, I don't think they hide as much as people think.
As for race tires, if you are comparing a new driver on race tires against someone on street tires, then they do mask some mistakes. However, as soon as you compare race tires to race tires, they are evident. Also, street tires are a LOT more forgiving of mistakes. If you get loose, they come back easier than if a race tire breaks loose. And, street tires give you audible clues to what's going on. Race tires make you feel it with your butt.
That said, it's more of an arguement of street tires for new guys. But, I don't think they hide as much as people think.
08-06-2009, 03:12 PM
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-1.5 was fine for me. I'd cord the middle of front tires, with the whole tire looking like it was ready to come apart. This was with R6s, A6s, and V710s.
As for race tires, if you are comparing a new driver on race tires against someone on street tires, then they do mask some mistakes. However, as soon as you compare race tires to race tires, they are evident. Also, street tires are a LOT more forgiving of mistakes. If you get loose, they come back easier than if a race tire breaks loose. And, street tires give you audible clues to what's going on. Race tires make you feel it with your butt.
That said, it's more of an arguement of street tires for new guys. But, I don't think they hide as much as people think.
As for race tires, if you are comparing a new driver on race tires against someone on street tires, then they do mask some mistakes. However, as soon as you compare race tires to race tires, they are evident. Also, street tires are a LOT more forgiving of mistakes. If you get loose, they come back easier than if a race tire breaks loose. And, street tires give you audible clues to what's going on. Race tires make you feel it with your butt.
That said, it's more of an arguement of street tires for new guys. But, I don't think they hide as much as people think.
This is mostly track abuse, not many road miles. Is there any way to combat wearing out the centers? Or does that just indicate you are dialed in as far as camber? Less tire pressure maybe?
As for the street tire thing, its like you said. More forgiving, and the noise issue to warn you are near the edge. I didn't articulate my point much, but you explained my thought process there.
08-06-2009, 05:46 PM
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use tire chalk on the sidewall and keep lowering pressure until you see the sidewall rolling too much. Chasing the heat and build up is more of a challenge. I currently run the d70(soft) Hankook ventus DOT r tire 275 17 and really like them. I start cold at 35/33 and they end up sliding too much at the end so I need to drop a few lbs. I have 1.5 camber and the tires wear well.
08-06-2009, 06:28 PM
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08-06-2009, 10:27 PM
#51
I have not taken my car on a road track yet.
I have scratched the 12 bolt off the list. and replacing with springs/shocks
and upgrading front/rear sway bars
Strengthening the 10 bolt
Some other questions I have are:
I been looking at buying a set of wheels (I am NOT taking my Budniks to the track) What would be the most efficient wheel size? 18" front rear or 17" front 18" rear? 9.5 front and 10.5 or 11?
------------------------------------------------
I just saw this on your list of mods 00 Trans Ram..."WHEELS - 17x11 ZR-1 replicas w/ corded Yokohama slicks - 18x10.5 C6 repl
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Seat, I would like to remove the race seat while not on track, would like for it to recline so I am comfortable and would like to stay under $400.
Can I just use my stock seatbelt? (3point)
Last edited by Blackfly; 08-06-2009 at 10:40 PM. Reason: I just saw this on your list of mods 00 Trans Ram..."WHEELS - 17x11 ZR-1 replicas w/ corded Yokohama slicks - 18x10.5 C6 repl
08-06-2009, 11:16 PM
#52
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cheap wheels are the 17x11 ZR1s on all 4 with 315/35/17s...you will wear out hubs fast though
if you have never taken your car on the track you shouldn't be spending any money (accept for good pads and fresh brake fluid), you need to take the car as it is to the track and just get seat time. You can throw all the $$ you want at the car and then not know how to drive it with what it has. Not everyone does this, but the track isn't a great place to screw around in a very capable car with an un-experienced driver (no offense..). The best way to get into racing, hpde's, etc, is seat time seat time seat time. The best place to spend your money right now is seat time. Yes belts and a good seat are worth getting now (as well as a cage, roll bar, or harness bar), but the rest of the performance mods should wait IMO.
I'm actually very surprised this hasn't been brought up yet; and if it has and I missed it, it is definitely worth the re-post
if you have never taken your car on the track you shouldn't be spending any money (accept for good pads and fresh brake fluid), you need to take the car as it is to the track and just get seat time. You can throw all the $$ you want at the car and then not know how to drive it with what it has. Not everyone does this, but the track isn't a great place to screw around in a very capable car with an un-experienced driver (no offense..). The best way to get into racing, hpde's, etc, is seat time seat time seat time. The best place to spend your money right now is seat time. Yes belts and a good seat are worth getting now (as well as a cage, roll bar, or harness bar), but the rest of the performance mods should wait IMO.
I'm actually very surprised this hasn't been brought up yet; and if it has and I missed it, it is definitely worth the re-post
08-06-2009, 11:38 PM
#53
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I am Joe's (Blackfly) nemesis on the streets here ...j/k. What are the rules with regards to blowers on cars? Can they be run?
I have been reading these posts and have a website www.texasperformanceevents.com . We have a road racing section there that a number of us are trying to get going. Would really appreciate you guys taking the time to join and post up some on that section as this is good stuff.
The plan is to have a web designer come in and set up certain functionality that will allow folks to rate various tracks/races/other venues so others can see the participants experiences before investing time to attend, if not what they were looking for, or if was a poor event.
I have sportlines too but after reading this are taking those off now and putting a Strano package on the car. Speaking of braking, how often do you find yourself really coming down on the brakes hard? Or, is it more of just a continuous braking pattern around tight turns..? Like Joe, hard line braking in my Baers are not really that good.
What power range do most of the cars run? Mine is about the same as Joe's..actually more
...j/k. Seems I have read that 400whp in these cars like ours tends to suffice.
I have been reading these posts and have a website www.texasperformanceevents.com . We have a road racing section there that a number of us are trying to get going. Would really appreciate you guys taking the time to join and post up some on that section as this is good stuff.
The plan is to have a web designer come in and set up certain functionality that will allow folks to rate various tracks/races/other venues so others can see the participants experiences before investing time to attend, if not what they were looking for, or if was a poor event.
I have sportlines too but after reading this are taking those off now and putting a Strano package on the car. Speaking of braking, how often do you find yourself really coming down on the brakes hard? Or, is it more of just a continuous braking pattern around tight turns..? Like Joe, hard line braking in my Baers are not really that good.
What power range do most of the cars run? Mine is about the same as Joe's..actually more
...j/k. Seems I have read that 400whp in these cars like ours tends to suffice.
08-07-2009, 12:44 AM
#54
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it all depends on the type of racing you want to get into, but for the most part aftermarket blowers don't go into very many "race" groups. in T1 class with SCCA the supercharged cobra can be ran in our group, but they aren't competitive so no one does..
If you are really racing, you are braking as hard and late as possible
If you are really racing, you are braking as hard and late as possible
08-07-2009, 06:43 AM
#55
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if you have never taken your car on the track you shouldn't be spending any money (accept for good pads and fresh brake fluid), you need to take the car as it is to the track and just get seat time. You can throw all the $$ you want at the car and then not know how to drive it with what it has. Not everyone does this, but the track isn't a great place to screw around in a very capable car with an un-experienced driver (no offense..). The best way to get into racing, hpde's, etc, is seat time seat time seat time. The best place to spend your money right now is seat time. Yes belts and a good seat are worth getting now (as well as a cage, roll bar, or harness bar), but the rest of the performance mods should wait IMO.
I'm actually very surprised this hasn't been brought up yet; and if it has and I missed it, it is definitely worth the re-post
I'm actually very surprised this hasn't been brought up yet; and if it has and I missed it, it is definitely worth the re-post
to answer his other questions, for what good it will do:
all you need to start with are 17x9 or 9.5 with good tires. 17x11s will require spacers and fender rolling.
as i said before, you DONT NEED to swap a seat. you CAN get a 'race seat' that reclines, has lumbar support, and 5pt compatable. ask me how i know...i have one. reclines, leather, lumbar, 5pt, embroidered. you can get two mad racing seats for $300. do some research and shop around. you can even find used seats for that price and less. theres a guy on my local fbody forum selling two adjustable, 5pt seats for $250.
you should and will use your stock belts until you get a proper cage, bar, or harness bar. if you ever use the back seat, you more then likely wont be able to use anything but the stock belts.
08-07-2009, 02:22 PM
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To the OP, make sure the brakes are in good order(pads and fluid) and do some HPDEs. You need track time with an instructor. You have not done on the street what you can do on a road coarse with instruction. I went to my first HPDE with the attitude that I know nothing about how to go fast around a track. You know what? I was right! You've got more than enough car for now. I am just now making changes (suspension, tires, alignment) to improve the car. A good instructor can have you doing things in your car that you did not think it could do.
Enough bashing, now some encouragement. This stuff is a blast! A day on the track is, without a doubt, the most fun I can have with my car. Warning: it's addictive.
Hope this helps.
08-07-2009, 03:56 PM
#59
OK, no offense, but that tells me that you guys don't really know much about this. I am fairly new(7 HPDEs) at this, not a racer, and am always learning. Yes, you use the brakes very hard and you don't (not initially anyway) use the brakes through a turn. In order: brake, turn, gas.
To the OP, make sure the brakes are in good order(pads and fluid) and do some HPDEs. You need track time with an instructor. You have not done on the street what you can do on a road coarse with instruction. I went to my first HPDE with the attitude that I know nothing about how to go fast around a track. You know what? I was right! You've got more than enough car for now. I am just now making changes (suspension, tires, alignment) to improve the car. A good instructor can have you doing things in your car that you did not think it could do.
Enough bashing, now some encouragement. This stuff is a blast! A day on the track is, without a doubt, the most fun I can have with my car. Warning: it's addictive.
Hope this helps.
To the OP, make sure the brakes are in good order(pads and fluid) and do some HPDEs. You need track time with an instructor. You have not done on the street what you can do on a road coarse with instruction. I went to my first HPDE with the attitude that I know nothing about how to go fast around a track. You know what? I was right! You've got more than enough car for now. I am just now making changes (suspension, tires, alignment) to improve the car. A good instructor can have you doing things in your car that you did not think it could do.
Enough bashing, now some encouragement. This stuff is a blast! A day on the track is, without a doubt, the most fun I can have with my car. Warning: it's addictive.
Hope this helps.
Now, since I'm strengthening the rear end do I get the Detroit Trutrac or the T2R?
