What should I do to increase high-speed stability (Autobahn driving)
01-13-2010, 04:30 PM
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What should I do to increase high-speed stability (Autobahn driving) This seemed like the best forum for the Q.
Moving to Germany this summer. Brining my Camaro. Car runs great but even at the track will start to feel a bit "unstable" (ie, the front begins to lift a bit and feel very light) at about 130mph.
I'm looking to reliably run the car to 150-160MPH without worries. Current suspension consists of UMI subframes, UMI LCA's, front stut brace, and panhard, UMI chassis-mount torque arm, and a Moser 9" w/ BMR drop brackets for the LCA's (currently set in the "mid" position). Springs and shocks are still stock.
Brakes are covered.... Baer Eradispeeds w/ Hawk pads and Earls lines + Sumitomo Y-rated rubber.
So....$0.02 appreciated. Not sure if different springs/shocks will increase stability....or if more is needed to prevent the car from lifting at high speed (like smoothed paneling under the car, splitters on the front bumper, etc.)
Moving to Germany this summer. Brining my Camaro. Car runs great but even at the track will start to feel a bit "unstable" (ie, the front begins to lift a bit and feel very light) at about 130mph.
I'm looking to reliably run the car to 150-160MPH without worries. Current suspension consists of UMI subframes, UMI LCA's, front stut brace, and panhard, UMI chassis-mount torque arm, and a Moser 9" w/ BMR drop brackets for the LCA's (currently set in the "mid" position). Springs and shocks are still stock.
Brakes are covered.... Baer Eradispeeds w/ Hawk pads and Earls lines + Sumitomo Y-rated rubber.
So....$0.02 appreciated. Not sure if different springs/shocks will increase stability....or if more is needed to prevent the car from lifting at high speed (like smoothed paneling under the car, splitters on the front bumper, etc.)
01-14-2010, 07:27 AM
#2
Coil overs are your friend, New bushings all the way around. Also look into some better tire with a super high heat rating aswell. I bought a set a michilen pilots while i was there they where no us spec but the work great. You dont have the ss hood so your good there the air dam is fine also. You can drop the car also the autobhan is smooth lol. I like autobhan 5 for long wot blast and autobhan 3 for twisties headed towards hammleburg lol.
01-14-2010, 11:46 AM
#3
This seemed like the best forum for the Q.
Moving to Germany this summer. Brining my Camaro. Car runs great but even at the track will start to feel a bit "unstable" (ie, the front begins to lift a bit and feel very light) at about 130mph.
I'm looking to reliably run the car to 150-160MPH without worries. Current suspension consists of UMI subframes, UMI LCA's, front stut brace, and panhard, UMI chassis-mount torque arm, and a Moser 9" w/ BMR drop brackets for the LCA's (currently set in the "mid" position). Springs and shocks are still stock.
Brakes are covered.... Baer Eradispeeds w/ Hawk pads and Earls lines + Sumitomo Y-rated rubber.
So....$0.02 appreciated. Not sure if different springs/shocks will increase stability....or if more is needed to prevent the car from lifting at high speed (like smoothed paneling under the car, splitters on the front bumper, etc.)
Moving to Germany this summer. Brining my Camaro. Car runs great but even at the track will start to feel a bit "unstable" (ie, the front begins to lift a bit and feel very light) at about 130mph.
I'm looking to reliably run the car to 150-160MPH without worries. Current suspension consists of UMI subframes, UMI LCA's, front stut brace, and panhard, UMI chassis-mount torque arm, and a Moser 9" w/ BMR drop brackets for the LCA's (currently set in the "mid" position). Springs and shocks are still stock.
Brakes are covered.... Baer Eradispeeds w/ Hawk pads and Earls lines + Sumitomo Y-rated rubber.
So....$0.02 appreciated. Not sure if different springs/shocks will increase stability....or if more is needed to prevent the car from lifting at high speed (like smoothed paneling under the car, splitters on the front bumper, etc.)
01-14-2010, 02:25 PM
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I have no concerns running up tp 190mph on the Autobahn.
Baer Eradisspeeds and Hawk pads won't take too much beating before they give out.
Once the rotors and pads are junk , switch to some brembo blanks and Ferodo 2500 pads or equivilent compound.
Fast camaro owners over here have Brembo front brake setup and Koni shocks and higher rate springs, bigger sway bars and semi slicks.
Baer Eradisspeeds and Hawk pads won't take too much beating before they give out.
Once the rotors and pads are junk , switch to some brembo blanks and Ferodo 2500 pads or equivilent compound.
Fast camaro owners over here have Brembo front brake setup and Koni shocks and higher rate springs, bigger sway bars and semi slicks.
01-14-2010, 05:54 PM
#6
+1 on the Splitter for the front especially with it lowered, it will help stop the air from going under the car and giving you the floaty feeling... Also at those speeds our Spoilers actually start doing something other then for looks, if you don't already have an SS spoiler maybe opt for one, it may give you a tad more downforce, or heck maybe not I'm not sure which adds more, I would just assume the SS spoiler...
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01-15-2010, 08:13 AM
#8
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This seemed like the best forum for the Q.
Moving to Germany this summer. Brining my Camaro. Car runs great but even at the track will start to feel a bit "unstable" (ie, the front begins to lift a bit and feel very light) at about 130mph.
I'm looking to reliably run the car to 150-160MPH without worries. Current suspension consists of UMI subframes, UMI LCA's, front stut brace, and panhard, UMI chassis-mount torque arm, and a Moser 9" w/ BMR drop brackets for the LCA's (currently set in the "mid" position). Springs and shocks are still stock.
Brakes are covered.... Baer Eradispeeds w/ Hawk pads and Earls lines + Sumitomo Y-rated rubber.
So....$0.02 appreciated. Not sure if different springs/shocks will increase stability....or if more is needed to prevent the car from lifting at high speed (like smoothed paneling under the car, splitters on the front bumper, etc.)
Moving to Germany this summer. Brining my Camaro. Car runs great but even at the track will start to feel a bit "unstable" (ie, the front begins to lift a bit and feel very light) at about 130mph.
I'm looking to reliably run the car to 150-160MPH without worries. Current suspension consists of UMI subframes, UMI LCA's, front stut brace, and panhard, UMI chassis-mount torque arm, and a Moser 9" w/ BMR drop brackets for the LCA's (currently set in the "mid" position). Springs and shocks are still stock.
Brakes are covered.... Baer Eradispeeds w/ Hawk pads and Earls lines + Sumitomo Y-rated rubber.
So....$0.02 appreciated. Not sure if different springs/shocks will increase stability....or if more is needed to prevent the car from lifting at high speed (like smoothed paneling under the car, splitters on the front bumper, etc.)
Throw some Konis on there and you will be amazed, its a whole new car. No longer floating, bouncing, or having a disconnected feel. Makes the car feel like 1 whole piece instead of separate front and rear. Dramatically increased handling and better ride quality as well.
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=20&ModelID=7
01-16-2010, 03:53 PM
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At high speed alignment is critical. As long as you have good bushings and shocks, nothing will make as much difference in performance as a proper alignment.
-Tim
-Tim
01-17-2010, 12:26 AM
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01-18-2010, 12:31 PM
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OP - I am moving to Schweinfurt, GER end of Feb this year and I am bringing my SS. I have done some research on this, main thing I am concerned about is the minimum ride height (11cm for the lowest point under the car) and max dB at idle and at 3k rpm - 95dB.
Where are you off to?
Where are you off to?
01-18-2010, 01:14 PM
#15
+1 on the Splitter for the front especially with it lowered, it will help stop the air from going under the car and giving you the floaty feeling... Also at those speeds our Spoilers actually start doing something other then for looks, if you don't already have an SS spoiler maybe opt for one, it may give you a tad more downforce, or heck maybe not I'm not sure which adds more, I would just assume the SS spoiler...
I agree. You really don't need to reinvent the wheel for this. People are already doing it, take there advice and consider anything else as an extra or new mod
01-18-2010, 11:48 PM
#16
Ok, before you get alot of bum scoop on this, let me interject.
Splitter, not nessacary in any way shape form or fashion. Great for the track but not good on the open road. Creates way to much down force on the nose.
Big tails, spoilers etc: dont need them. I ran the LG SCCA spoiler for a few events and I noticed over 150mph it put WAY to much drag on the car and would actually lift the nose a little bit. That is NOT ok at speed.
If you want a great adjustable spoiler, contact Alan Blaine at Blaine fabrication and ask for his ORR adjustable lexan spoiler. But if you dont do that, leave yours as is.
You want a the biggest front sway bar you can get your hands on. And leave the factory one on the rear.
Suspension, go with Koni's on all 4 corners. they are the best thing for both street and track driving. Coil overs would be a bit of over kill ( I ran the LG coil overs and though they were awesome, they cost an arm and a leg and on regular roads you could feel every bump).
Alignment is KEY. You want as much Castor as you can get, this greatly increases your high speed stability (I think on my car the most I could get was about *6). This will slow down your "turn in" so its not a "track set up". go with about 1/8 camber and 1/16 TOE IN! Toe out is only good on a race track, NOT on the open road at speed. You dont want a **** ton of camber because you will wear the crap out of the edges of your tires and a blow out at 160+ isnt any fun.....ask me how i know.....I had one @ 204mph. Took out the left rear of the car.
TIRES TIRES TIRES....You wantthe highest speeds rated tires you can afford. Having a tire de-skin itself at speed can cause all kinds of hell at speed. We had one seperate just enough to cause the car to yank hard to the right and the rubber didnt even come off the tire itself. That "1 rise it gave the left side was enough to almost push us off the road. AND INSPECT YOUR TIRES EVERY CHANCE YOU GET BEFORE MAKING A PUSH ON THE ROAD.
If you are running an A4, you will definately want to look into a trans cooler. You will also want to look at a diff cooler for those times you know you are going to push it on the autobahn. If not, be prepared to be changing both of those fluids frequently.
Those are just the starters. when you really want to start pushing some speed, you have to start looking at the entire aero package, making the car slicker, air dams etc.
Autobahn driving isnt anything like driving on US highways. Thier highways are maintained at a level that the US couldnt even imagine. Given the racing i was doing i could get away with factory brakes. Out on the Autobahn, I would suggest a big brake package upgrade. Getting on the binders at 160mph+ will test to see how water tight your *** is and chances are if your not on top of things RFN it could cause major issues.
Any questions, feel free to ask. I have more time over 200mph than 99.999999999999999999% of the human population.
Splitter, not nessacary in any way shape form or fashion. Great for the track but not good on the open road. Creates way to much down force on the nose.
Big tails, spoilers etc: dont need them. I ran the LG SCCA spoiler for a few events and I noticed over 150mph it put WAY to much drag on the car and would actually lift the nose a little bit. That is NOT ok at speed.
If you want a great adjustable spoiler, contact Alan Blaine at Blaine fabrication and ask for his ORR adjustable lexan spoiler. But if you dont do that, leave yours as is.
You want a the biggest front sway bar you can get your hands on. And leave the factory one on the rear.
Suspension, go with Koni's on all 4 corners. they are the best thing for both street and track driving. Coil overs would be a bit of over kill ( I ran the LG coil overs and though they were awesome, they cost an arm and a leg and on regular roads you could feel every bump).
Alignment is KEY. You want as much Castor as you can get, this greatly increases your high speed stability (I think on my car the most I could get was about *6). This will slow down your "turn in" so its not a "track set up". go with about 1/8 camber and 1/16 TOE IN! Toe out is only good on a race track, NOT on the open road at speed. You dont want a **** ton of camber because you will wear the crap out of the edges of your tires and a blow out at 160+ isnt any fun.....ask me how i know.....I had one @ 204mph. Took out the left rear of the car.
TIRES TIRES TIRES....You wantthe highest speeds rated tires you can afford. Having a tire de-skin itself at speed can cause all kinds of hell at speed. We had one seperate just enough to cause the car to yank hard to the right and the rubber didnt even come off the tire itself. That "1 rise it gave the left side was enough to almost push us off the road. AND INSPECT YOUR TIRES EVERY CHANCE YOU GET BEFORE MAKING A PUSH ON THE ROAD.
If you are running an A4, you will definately want to look into a trans cooler. You will also want to look at a diff cooler for those times you know you are going to push it on the autobahn. If not, be prepared to be changing both of those fluids frequently.
Those are just the starters. when you really want to start pushing some speed, you have to start looking at the entire aero package, making the car slicker, air dams etc.
Autobahn driving isnt anything like driving on US highways. Thier highways are maintained at a level that the US couldnt even imagine. Given the racing i was doing i could get away with factory brakes. Out on the Autobahn, I would suggest a big brake package upgrade. Getting on the binders at 160mph+ will test to see how water tight your *** is and chances are if your not on top of things RFN it could cause major issues.
Any questions, feel free to ask. I have more time over 200mph than 99.999999999999999999% of the human population.
Last edited by NataSS Inc; 01-19-2010 at 12:03 AM.
01-19-2010, 04:24 PM
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Ok, before you get alot of bum scoop on this, let me interject.
Splitter, not nessacary in any way shape form or fashion. Great for the track but not good on the open road. Creates way to much down force on the nose.
Big tails, spoilers etc: dont need them. I ran the LG SCCA spoiler for a few events and I noticed over 150mph it put WAY to much drag on the car and would actually lift the nose a little bit. That is NOT ok at speed.
If you want a great adjustable spoiler, contact Alan Blaine at Blaine fabrication and ask for his ORR adjustable lexan spoiler. But if you dont do that, leave yours as is.
You want a the biggest front sway bar you can get your hands on. And leave the factory one on the rear.
Suspension, go with Koni's on all 4 corners. they are the best thing for both street and track driving. Coil overs would be a bit of over kill ( I ran the LG coil overs and though they were awesome, they cost an arm and a leg and on regular roads you could feel every bump).
Alignment is KEY. You want as much Castor as you can get, this greatly increases your high speed stability (I think on my car the most I could get was about *6). This will slow down your "turn in" so its not a "track set up". go with about 1/8 camber and 1/16 TOE IN! Toe out is only good on a race track, NOT on the open road at speed. You dont want a **** ton of camber because you will wear the crap out of the edges of your tires and a blow out at 160+ isnt any fun.....ask me how i know.....I had one @ 204mph. Took out the left rear of the car.
TIRES TIRES TIRES....You wantthe highest speeds rated tires you can afford. Having a tire de-skin itself at speed can cause all kinds of hell at speed. We had one seperate just enough to cause the car to yank hard to the right and the rubber didnt even come off the tire itself. That "1 rise it gave the left side was enough to almost push us off the road. AND INSPECT YOUR TIRES EVERY CHANCE YOU GET BEFORE MAKING A PUSH ON THE ROAD.
If you are running an A4, you will definately want to look into a trans cooler. You will also want to look at a diff cooler for those times you know you are going to push it on the autobahn. If not, be prepared to be changing both of those fluids frequently.
Those are just the starters. when you really want to start pushing some speed, you have to start looking at the entire aero package, making the car slicker, air dams etc.
Autobahn driving isnt anything like driving on US highways. Thier highways are maintained at a level that the US couldnt even imagine. Given the racing i was doing i could get away with factory brakes. Out on the Autobahn, I would suggest a big brake package upgrade. Getting on the binders at 160mph+ will test to see how water tight your *** is and chances are if your not on top of things RFN it could cause major issues.
Any questions, feel free to ask. I have more time over 200mph than 99.999999999999999999% of the human population.
Splitter, not nessacary in any way shape form or fashion. Great for the track but not good on the open road. Creates way to much down force on the nose.
Big tails, spoilers etc: dont need them. I ran the LG SCCA spoiler for a few events and I noticed over 150mph it put WAY to much drag on the car and would actually lift the nose a little bit. That is NOT ok at speed.
If you want a great adjustable spoiler, contact Alan Blaine at Blaine fabrication and ask for his ORR adjustable lexan spoiler. But if you dont do that, leave yours as is.
You want a the biggest front sway bar you can get your hands on. And leave the factory one on the rear.
Suspension, go with Koni's on all 4 corners. they are the best thing for both street and track driving. Coil overs would be a bit of over kill ( I ran the LG coil overs and though they were awesome, they cost an arm and a leg and on regular roads you could feel every bump).
Alignment is KEY. You want as much Castor as you can get, this greatly increases your high speed stability (I think on my car the most I could get was about *6). This will slow down your "turn in" so its not a "track set up". go with about 1/8 camber and 1/16 TOE IN! Toe out is only good on a race track, NOT on the open road at speed. You dont want a **** ton of camber because you will wear the crap out of the edges of your tires and a blow out at 160+ isnt any fun.....ask me how i know.....I had one @ 204mph. Took out the left rear of the car.
TIRES TIRES TIRES....You wantthe highest speeds rated tires you can afford. Having a tire de-skin itself at speed can cause all kinds of hell at speed. We had one seperate just enough to cause the car to yank hard to the right and the rubber didnt even come off the tire itself. That "1 rise it gave the left side was enough to almost push us off the road. AND INSPECT YOUR TIRES EVERY CHANCE YOU GET BEFORE MAKING A PUSH ON THE ROAD.
If you are running an A4, you will definately want to look into a trans cooler. You will also want to look at a diff cooler for those times you know you are going to push it on the autobahn. If not, be prepared to be changing both of those fluids frequently.
Those are just the starters. when you really want to start pushing some speed, you have to start looking at the entire aero package, making the car slicker, air dams etc.
Autobahn driving isnt anything like driving on US highways. Thier highways are maintained at a level that the US couldnt even imagine. Given the racing i was doing i could get away with factory brakes. Out on the Autobahn, I would suggest a big brake package upgrade. Getting on the binders at 160mph+ will test to see how water tight your *** is and chances are if your not on top of things RFN it could cause major issues.
Any questions, feel free to ask. I have more time over 200mph than 99.999999999999999999% of the human population.
Appreciate the input on tires too. I'm currently running Sumitomo HTR ZIII's (Y-rated) on 17" wheels. Guessing they are "middle of the road" as far as tire/performance. I also have a set of MTR Drag radials...but I'm not a fan of running those on the street.
BTW, my cars an M6...so I should be fine w/out a cooler.
OP - I am moving to Schweinfurt, GER end of Feb this year and I am bringing my SS. I have done some research on this, main thing I am concerned about is the minimum ride height (11cm for the lowest point under the car) and max dB at idle and at 3k rpm - 95dB.
Where are you off to?
Where are you off to?
. BTW, I'm heading to K-town (Landstuhl).
02-06-2010, 01:54 PM
#18
GL with your car shipment. I'm glad UK isn't as strict as Germany. I'll be planning a trip over there though with my camaro to do a couple of laps in Nurburgring. I know the locals are crazy in autobahn... I've seen some pinto looking car doing 120+ MPH.
03-02-2010, 09:33 AM
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Very cool thread.
Out of curiosity, what does it cost to get a car to Germany?
NATA SS I've been discussing it with a friend, What does it take to get a WS6 trans am over 200 MPH reliably. I'm planning a set of 3:50 rear end gears, and about 700 HP to the rears. my suspension, brakes, etc are all squared away. (koni's strano's etc.)
Out of curiosity, what does it cost to get a car to Germany?
NATA SS I've been discussing it with a friend, What does it take to get a WS6 trans am over 200 MPH reliably. I'm planning a set of 3:50 rear end gears, and about 700 HP to the rears. my suspension, brakes, etc are all squared away. (koni's strano's etc.)
03-02-2010, 09:38 AM
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Very cool thread.
Out of curiosity, what does it cost to get a car to Germany?
NATA SS I've been discussing it with a friend, What does it take to get a WS6 trans am over 200 MPH reliably. I'm planning a set of 3:50 rear end gears, and about 700 HP to the rears. my suspension, brakes, etc are all squared away. (koni's strano's etc.)
Out of curiosity, what does it cost to get a car to Germany?
NATA SS I've been discussing it with a friend, What does it take to get a WS6 trans am over 200 MPH reliably. I'm planning a set of 3:50 rear end gears, and about 700 HP to the rears. my suspension, brakes, etc are all squared away. (koni's strano's etc.)