Road racing an A4...anyone had any better luck than me?
06-01-2004, 02:18 PM
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Road racing an A4...anyone had any better luck than me? i have about 16 open track events under my belt, but my tranny keeps going south on me...
here's my history:
about 6 of those events were pre-Stage II heads/cam, and i had no trouble with my A4 at all...after the Stage II upgrade lots of guys advised me to have my tranny "beefed up" as insurance, to handle the extra 80 or so horsepower...
i am now on my 3rd tranny shop...each one of them claimed to be able to upgrade the A4 to handle that much power...the first "upgrade" lasted about a month....they ended up (at no charge to me) fixing it a total of three different times, as i would loose 3rd gear after getting on it
obviously, they were in over their heads...so i did more research and went to a second shop that insisted that they knew what they were doing.....it lasted one month....they fixed it.....lasted 10 freakin minutes....it went out while they were doing a test drive
on to shop No. 3....run by a very seasoned and successful drag racer, with many trophies on the wall...lots of credentials...well respected...knowledgable...etc.
lasted two months...held up for two open track days...then a couple of days later, at a stop light, under normal acceleration on the green, it went out again...this time it's first gear
i've heard over and over again that a 4L60E--IF PROPERLY BEEFED UP--will easily handle up to 400 hp....mine dyno'd at 381.....
do i have, 1) a freakin lemon, or 2) are these trannies not capable of surviving the rigors of road course driving, or 3) i have simply run across three shops in a row that are lying thru their teeth (or else posses talent far, far below what they think they have)?
here's my history:
about 6 of those events were pre-Stage II heads/cam, and i had no trouble with my A4 at all...after the Stage II upgrade lots of guys advised me to have my tranny "beefed up" as insurance, to handle the extra 80 or so horsepower...
i am now on my 3rd tranny shop...each one of them claimed to be able to upgrade the A4 to handle that much power...the first "upgrade" lasted about a month....they ended up (at no charge to me) fixing it a total of three different times, as i would loose 3rd gear after getting on it
obviously, they were in over their heads...so i did more research and went to a second shop that insisted that they knew what they were doing.....it lasted one month....they fixed it.....lasted 10 freakin minutes....it went out while they were doing a test drive
on to shop No. 3....run by a very seasoned and successful drag racer, with many trophies on the wall...lots of credentials...well respected...knowledgable...etc.
lasted two months...held up for two open track days...then a couple of days later, at a stop light, under normal acceleration on the green, it went out again...this time it's first gear
i've heard over and over again that a 4L60E--IF PROPERLY BEEFED UP--will easily handle up to 400 hp....mine dyno'd at 381.....
do i have, 1) a freakin lemon, or 2) are these trannies not capable of surviving the rigors of road course driving, or 3) i have simply run across three shops in a row that are lying thru their teeth (or else posses talent far, far below what they think they have)?
06-01-2004, 05:27 PM
#2
I would definitely say that they posess talent far below what they think they are capable of. It's like race engine building, alot of places build em', but very few know what they are doing. Somebody somewhere is not replacing something that they need to be, which tells me they can't diagnose. They are probably approaching your unit like in the same way they would a regular passenger car unit, used under normal conditions. Have you thought about doing it yourself? What exaclty keeps failing, or do you know?
Here's some links to places that sell parts:
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L60E.htm
http://www.bulkparts.com/
Automatic transmissions can be built up reliably, they use them some in circle track events. So they'll work.
Here's some links to places that sell parts:
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L60E.htm
http://www.bulkparts.com/
Automatic transmissions can be built up reliably, they use them some in circle track events. So they'll work.
06-01-2004, 08:52 PM
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hey, thanks for the post....and my mind boggles at all the info/parts on that first link...they look like a first rate shop...i may end up shipping my tranny there
but no, i am not into working on my Z....it's one of those "fools rush in" things
i definitely would need someone to do it for me
mainly, thanx for the support on the idea that they can be built for road course work......trouble is, i've already gone thru 3 shops that claim they can do it...and all 3 of them had previous experience and customers that stick by them
on june 14th i'm taking the second one to small claims court...while fixing his first job we talked on the phone and he confessed that he "was stumped" by the problem and would "have to do some research to figure out what to do"
this, after flat out telling me he was fully competent to beef up my tranny....to me that's flat out false advertising of the worst kind and he should be made to pay for it..........hopefully the judge will agree and this guy will think twice before claiming beyond his expertise
but no, i am not into working on my Z....it's one of those "fools rush in" things
i definitely would need someone to do it for memainly, thanx for the support on the idea that they can be built for road course work......trouble is, i've already gone thru 3 shops that claim they can do it...and all 3 of them had previous experience and customers that stick by them
on june 14th i'm taking the second one to small claims court...while fixing his first job we talked on the phone and he confessed that he "was stumped" by the problem and would "have to do some research to figure out what to do"
this, after flat out telling me he was fully competent to beef up my tranny....to me that's flat out false advertising of the worst kind and he should be made to pay for it..........hopefully the judge will agree and this guy will think twice before claiming beyond his expertise
06-13-2004, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 2edybrd
For about the price of the FLP you could do a six-speed swap
06-16-2004, 02:36 PM
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I have heard good things about the stage 4 FLP auto. I should have mune installed in a week or so.
As far as road racing goes; I'm addicted. I can't wait to get back out there
As far as road racing goes; I'm addicted. I can't wait to get back out there
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09-13-2004, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenix57
would it be better to just install a 4l65e or 80e instead of a 4l60e
09-13-2004, 05:22 PM
#10
I'd look into a TH200-4R and a huge transcooler that gets lots of fresh cool air. These guys in Sacramento can build great units... but be prepared to pay some bucks....
A Buick GN '86-87 has a specific BRF valvebody/GN governor that allows higher/tighter upshifts and WOT shifts from 3rd to 4th. They will handle 400rwhp easily with minor buildup as a stock Buick GN puts out nearly 400ft/lbs stock. There are a few handling low 10's in 3500lb GN's with no problems.
http://www1.ptsnctb.com/
Realize also that your heavy car and 20 minute thrashes on the roadrace courses certainly isn't helping. I assume you have a larger capacity trans pan as well?
-GNX7
A Buick GN '86-87 has a specific BRF valvebody/GN governor that allows higher/tighter upshifts and WOT shifts from 3rd to 4th. They will handle 400rwhp easily with minor buildup as a stock Buick GN puts out nearly 400ft/lbs stock. There are a few handling low 10's in 3500lb GN's with no problems.
http://www1.ptsnctb.com/
Realize also that your heavy car and 20 minute thrashes on the roadrace courses certainly isn't helping. I assume you have a larger capacity trans pan as well?
-GNX7
09-13-2004, 06:27 PM
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I agree with you 100% on the big cooler part. I have a B&M 19,000 unit that isn't getting it done. I'm having there biggest unit installed this week.
70274* SuperCooler 29,200 BTU 11"x11"x1-1/2" Temps got a little crazy at the Gingerman track. I have a slightly larger pan, holds two extra quarts.
70274* SuperCooler 29,200 BTU 11"x11"x1-1/2" Temps got a little crazy at the Gingerman track. I have a slightly larger pan, holds two extra quarts.
09-19-2004, 02:41 PM
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Do you get any info on the failure mode that might help
you fix problems?
There are many ways to kill the trans. Do you have good
programming for line pressure (not so much that you punch
out bands but enough to let the clutches and TCC grab and
hold? Or do you leave TCC unlocked but then throw more
heat out the converter?
Sone converters just slip the clutch a lot. Drag racing is a
lot different than road course in that you don't get to cool
off from a heat spike. So your cooling has to be better,
by far I think. Might even want to play with an augmented
air dam (chin spoiler) to crush more air and go multiple on
the trans coolers.
Also cornering slosh might give you trouble? Any fluid
starvation would let a lot of stuff slip under power.
One of those super-deep TCI pans like I used to have on
mine, with the truck filter down deep in the juice, would
maybe take care of any of that (as long as you aren't
lowered and scraping over speed bumps, which is what
made me take it back off). Bonus cooling fins underneath
too. I had to grind back the pedestals inside to use the
truck filter but I liked that setup - everything except
bouncing my tranny on every damn parking lot.
you fix problems?
There are many ways to kill the trans. Do you have good
programming for line pressure (not so much that you punch
out bands but enough to let the clutches and TCC grab and
hold? Or do you leave TCC unlocked but then throw more
heat out the converter?
Sone converters just slip the clutch a lot. Drag racing is a
lot different than road course in that you don't get to cool
off from a heat spike. So your cooling has to be better,
by far I think. Might even want to play with an augmented
air dam (chin spoiler) to crush more air and go multiple on
the trans coolers.
Also cornering slosh might give you trouble? Any fluid
starvation would let a lot of stuff slip under power.
One of those super-deep TCI pans like I used to have on
mine, with the truck filter down deep in the juice, would
maybe take care of any of that (as long as you aren't
lowered and scraping over speed bumps, which is what
made me take it back off). Bonus cooling fins underneath
too. I had to grind back the pedestals inside to use the
truck filter but I liked that setup - everything except
bouncing my tranny on every damn parking lot.
