2002 ws6 m6 build options
12-17-2015, 12:38 AM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
2002 ws6 m6 build options I recently acquired a basically bone stock 2002 ws6. I live roughly an hr from high plains raceway just east of Denver and have a lot of interest in making multiple open lap days. There is also a local 2 day cannonball run through the mountains that I would like to participate in as well.
This car will also be a nice weather/weekend driver, not a daily. It will see some canyon driving on the weekends. If you had a clean slate like I do with this car where would u start? I'm a drag racing convert, worked in professional drag racing for almost a decade, but turning while going fast is new to me and I bought this fbody intentionally for this purpose.
I know I know, why not start with a c5? Because I have a wife and kid and they like to cruise too, lol.
So where do I start on a basic track day car that's gonna see drive miles as well? Springs/shocks/sway bars? I'd also like to make a cam and full exhaust swap. Any thoughts on cams? I was looking at the Texas speed 228r and the vengeance vrx4. Both are below .600" one is on 112 one on 114. Is this too much cam for a road car?
This car will also be a nice weather/weekend driver, not a daily. It will see some canyon driving on the weekends. If you had a clean slate like I do with this car where would u start? I'm a drag racing convert, worked in professional drag racing for almost a decade, but turning while going fast is new to me and I bought this fbody intentionally for this purpose.
I know I know, why not start with a c5? Because I have a wife and kid and they like to cruise too, lol.
So where do I start on a basic track day car that's gonna see drive miles as well? Springs/shocks/sway bars? I'd also like to make a cam and full exhaust swap. Any thoughts on cams? I was looking at the Texas speed 228r and the vengeance vrx4. Both are below .600" one is on 112 one on 114. Is this too much cam for a road car?
12-17-2015, 07:58 AM
#2
Just like any type of racing, suspension is key. My son started with a bone stock 02 Z28 that he picked up for $2k in very good condition. So far he has only less than $5k in the suspension and that's everything under the sun except a Watts linkage, which he doesn't really need. It's all UMI. He invested in the Road race stuff too. The stronger K-member and the boxed front LCAs with Rotojoints throughout and Viking dual adjustable coilovers. That's overkill for most and about a grand more than needed to be spent.
But a good start is tubular k-member and upper and lower control arms to lighten and strengthen the front end, then of course replacing all that stamped steel garbage in the rear.
Then of course tires.
Depending on how serious you want to get is what will decipher how intense the parts are. But UMI, BMR and Founders all make good stuff. At a minimum, you're look at 3 point SFC, LCAs, Tq arm & PHR. That will get you handling pretty damn good with good tires.
Also, be aware the if you choose a relocated torque arm, you won't be able to lower the car much. I adjusted my sons coilovers to have a good stance and the tq arm crossmember was about 2" off the ground. He hit everything.
Cams. look into Brian Tooley racing. Headers, look into Speed Engineerings 1-7/8 kit. Awesome price and fits like a glove.
But a good start is tubular k-member and upper and lower control arms to lighten and strengthen the front end, then of course replacing all that stamped steel garbage in the rear.
Then of course tires.
Depending on how serious you want to get is what will decipher how intense the parts are. But UMI, BMR and Founders all make good stuff. At a minimum, you're look at 3 point SFC, LCAs, Tq arm & PHR. That will get you handling pretty damn good with good tires.
Also, be aware the if you choose a relocated torque arm, you won't be able to lower the car much. I adjusted my sons coilovers to have a good stance and the tq arm crossmember was about 2" off the ground. He hit everything.
Cams. look into Brian Tooley racing. Headers, look into Speed Engineerings 1-7/8 kit. Awesome price and fits like a glove.
12-17-2015, 10:01 AM
#3
I would start with the basics: shocks/springs/sway bars and brake pads. There are a bunch of great options out there, however I went with Bilstein shocks, Strano springs and Strano's sway bars. Makes for a tight little setup on track.
If you're inclined to spend up now in favor of "doing it right the first time", go with Koni Sports for the shocks. I've been pleased with the Bilsteins as a budget option, however the Konis are simply better.
If you're new to road course track days, there's a nice benefit to starting out on street tires -- most give audible feedback when you're close to the edge and they are enough of a limiting factor that it helps you focus on improving other aspects of your driving. As you develop, going with a set of dedicated track wheels and R-compounds will do a LOT to improve the way the car handles on track.
As for brakes, you can easily get by with throwing a set of aggressive track pads on the front and something very mild on the rear. I run Hawks pads primarily because I swap back and forth for street/track. On track I run either the DTC-60 or DTC-70 on the front and the HP+ on the rear. I wouldn't even consider anything stronger than the HP+ on the rear as that would lead to excessive rear wheel hop under heavy braking. Another direction would be to consider the Wilwood package Strano is offering -- this would be a big improvement over the stock setup at an appealing price point.
There are plenty of other items you can work on down the road, however it's worthwhile to get some seat time in the car first. Having a good baseline for how the car handles in stock (or close to stock) form will help you with future adjustments on other mods.
If you're inclined to spend up now in favor of "doing it right the first time", go with Koni Sports for the shocks. I've been pleased with the Bilsteins as a budget option, however the Konis are simply better.
If you're new to road course track days, there's a nice benefit to starting out on street tires -- most give audible feedback when you're close to the edge and they are enough of a limiting factor that it helps you focus on improving other aspects of your driving. As you develop, going with a set of dedicated track wheels and R-compounds will do a LOT to improve the way the car handles on track.
As for brakes, you can easily get by with throwing a set of aggressive track pads on the front and something very mild on the rear. I run Hawks pads primarily because I swap back and forth for street/track. On track I run either the DTC-60 or DTC-70 on the front and the HP+ on the rear. I wouldn't even consider anything stronger than the HP+ on the rear as that would lead to excessive rear wheel hop under heavy braking. Another direction would be to consider the Wilwood package Strano is offering -- this would be a big improvement over the stock setup at an appealing price point.
There are plenty of other items you can work on down the road, however it's worthwhile to get some seat time in the car first. Having a good baseline for how the car handles in stock (or close to stock) form will help you with future adjustments on other mods.
12-17-2015, 10:09 AM
#4
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I ran my WS6 on track for a while until my track only car was finished. I had an ESP legal setup on my car and it was quite the track performer. Strano Springs, Koni yellow shocks, upgraded bushing to prothyane, and beefed up adjustable rear suspension links. Also have an adjustable panhard rod. You may also find you will want to change out the diff, I have an auburn road race spec diff in my car. Leave the motor stock for a while so you can work on the connection between the seat and the steering wheel. Good tires should also be on your list.
12-17-2015, 10:36 AM
#5
I ran my WS6 on track for a while until my track only car was finished. I had an ESP legal setup on my car and it was quite the track performer. Strano Springs, Koni yellow shocks, upgraded bushing to prothyane, and beefed up adjustable rear suspension links. Also have an adjustable panhard rod. You may also find you will want to change out the diff, I have an auburn road race spec diff in my car. Leave the motor stock for a while so you can work on the connection between the seat and the steering wheel. Good tires should also be on your list.
12-18-2015, 06:48 PM
#6
TECH Senior Member
But a good start is tubular k-member and upper and lower control arms to lighten and strengthen the front end, then of course replacing all that stamped steel garbage in the rear.
Then of course tires.
Depending on how serious you want to get is what will decipher how intense the parts are. But UMI, BMR and Founders all make good stuff. At a minimum, you're look at 3 point SFC, LCAs, Tq arm & PHR. That will get you handling pretty damn good with good tires.
Then of course tires.
Depending on how serious you want to get is what will decipher how intense the parts are. But UMI, BMR and Founders all make good stuff. At a minimum, you're look at 3 point SFC, LCAs, Tq arm & PHR. That will get you handling pretty damn good with good tires.
Most the parts you named do little to nothing for handling, I have all of the above minus the K-member and front control arms.
With suspension you want to start with good shocks first, they will make the biggest difference out of any suspension piece you can buy.
Something like Koni SAs, Penski, KW, race bilsten, or UMI's new special valved coilovers.
Shocks like QA1, Viking, Afco, and strange are NOT handling shocks, they are drag shocks with marketing toward "protouring", but are really just drag shocks.
Next would be springs, and or swaybars (strano for both ideally)
Then a panhard bar to recenter the rear end unless you have the cash for a watts link.
THEN if you want a little more out of the car you can consider rear LCAs(not poly), a full length adjustable torque arm, road race K-member (only from UMI) and front control arms. Lastly you can consider SFC's but be warned they add weight and don't make you any faster, the added rigidity is unnoticeable, if its there at all (I have 3pt that are welded in, did nothing. However I fixed the real issue first: the shitty stock shocks).
Also, be aware the if you choose a relocated torque arm, you won't be able to lower the car much. I adjusted my sons coilovers to have a good stance and the tq arm crossmember was about 2" off the ground. He hit everything.
As for a cam, for now forget about it, you are still in a drag race mind set. Keep it bolt ons for now until you finish your suspension and brakes, those are what will get you around a track/through the canyon runs fast, not a cam.
12-19-2015, 08:01 AM
#7
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I agree with JD AMG above, but he left out tires. Good tires are essential. I would say spend money on tires and shocks, then HPDE/seat time. After you learn how to not get passed by Miatas then start working on the List above. Stock shocks, and hard tires will put you in the wall, and make you go back to drag racing.
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12-19-2015, 01:05 PM
#8
On The Tree
Thread Starter
On the Strani site which shock and spring set? I assume the strano sp141 springs, and either the koni sport or bilstein hd shocks? 35/22 sway bars?
12-19-2015, 11:56 PM
#11
TECH Senior Member
Strano springs
Strano swaybars (35mm/22mm)
His springs are designed specifically for f-stock auto-x, and used to win multiple national championships with, they work.
If you want to increase spring rate then buy springs with custom rates (he sells other springs as well you can talk to him about), you do NOT want to cut lowering springs, and for ideal handling you do not want to go lower than ~1.25" that the strano springs already drop (you NEED suspension travel for the suspension to actually work).
12-20-2015, 12:42 AM
#12
On The Tree
Thread Starter
I could have swore the stranos were only a 3/4" drop. If they're more like 1.25" there's no wiggle room.
I read a few times digging through threads on here and various sites about drivers looking for a bit more spring, not a lot, just a touch more. If the stranos only dropped 3/4" and needed a touch more rate, a 1/3 of a coil would drop everything slightly and add 30# or so to the rate. But like I say, if they knock 1.25" there's no room for "adjustment"
I read a few times digging through threads on here and various sites about drivers looking for a bit more spring, not a lot, just a touch more. If the stranos only dropped 3/4" and needed a touch more rate, a 1/3 of a coil would drop everything slightly and add 30# or so to the rate. But like I say, if they knock 1.25" there's no room for "adjustment"
12-20-2015, 02:02 PM
#13
I could have swore the stranos were only a 3/4" drop. If they're more like 1.25" there's no wiggle room.
I read a few times digging through threads on here and various sites about drivers looking for a bit more spring, not a lot, just a touch more. If the stranos only dropped 3/4" and needed a touch more rate, a 1/3 of a coil would drop everything slightly and add 30# or so to the rate. But like I say, if they knock 1.25" there's no room for "adjustment"
I read a few times digging through threads on here and various sites about drivers looking for a bit more spring, not a lot, just a touch more. If the stranos only dropped 3/4" and needed a touch more rate, a 1/3 of a coil would drop everything slightly and add 30# or so to the rate. But like I say, if they knock 1.25" there's no room for "adjustment"
12-20-2015, 02:05 PM
#14
Just like any type of racing, suspension is key. My son started with a bone stock 02 Z28 that he picked up for $2k in very good condition. So far he has only less than $5k in the suspension and that's everything under the sun except a Watts linkage, which he doesn't really need. It's all UMI. He invested in the Road race stuff too. The stronger K-member and the boxed front LCAs with Rotojoints throughout and Viking dual adjustable coilovers. That's overkill for most and about a grand more than needed to be spent.
But a good start is tubular k-member and upper and lower control arms to lighten and strengthen the front end, then of course replacing all that stamped steel garbage in the rear.
Then of course tires.
Depending on how serious you want to get is what will decipher how intense the parts are. But UMI, BMR and Founders all make good stuff. At a minimum, you're look at 3 point SFC, LCAs, Tq arm & PHR. That will get you handling pretty damn good with good tires.
Also, be aware the if you choose a relocated torque arm, you won't be able to lower the car much. I adjusted my sons coilovers to have a good stance and the tq arm crossmember was about 2" off the ground. He hit everything.
Cams. look into Brian Tooley racing. Headers, look into Speed Engineerings 1-7/8 kit. Awesome price and fits like a glove.
But a good start is tubular k-member and upper and lower control arms to lighten and strengthen the front end, then of course replacing all that stamped steel garbage in the rear.
Then of course tires.
Depending on how serious you want to get is what will decipher how intense the parts are. But UMI, BMR and Founders all make good stuff. At a minimum, you're look at 3 point SFC, LCAs, Tq arm & PHR. That will get you handling pretty damn good with good tires.
Also, be aware the if you choose a relocated torque arm, you won't be able to lower the car much. I adjusted my sons coilovers to have a good stance and the tq arm crossmember was about 2" off the ground. He hit everything.
Cams. look into Brian Tooley racing. Headers, look into Speed Engineerings 1-7/8 kit. Awesome price and fits like a glove.
12-20-2015, 05:04 PM
#16
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Pretty sure I'm going with the strano susp. Package with the sp141 springs, bilstein shocks, and the 35/22 hollow bars....seems like a good way to spend a thousand dollars.
Car already has lower control arms and tubular trans tunnel brace, so a torque arm and panhard rod will come after the above pieces along with some updated brake pads and rotors. After that we will go see how she does. I'd almost like to take it as it sits for a half day session just to see the difference....maybe.
This seems like the correct progression parts wise correct?
Car already has lower control arms and tubular trans tunnel brace, so a torque arm and panhard rod will come after the above pieces along with some updated brake pads and rotors. After that we will go see how she does. I'd almost like to take it as it sits for a half day session just to see the difference....maybe.
This seems like the correct progression parts wise correct?
12-20-2015, 05:30 PM
#17
TECH Senior Member
Pretty sure I'm going with the strano susp. Package with the sp141 springs, bilstein shocks, and the 35/22 hollow bars....seems like a good way to spend a thousand dollars.
Car already has lower control arms and tubular trans tunnel brace, so a torque arm and panhard rod will come after the above pieces along with some updated brake pads and rotors. After that we will go see how she does. I'd almost like to take it as it sits for a half day session just to see the difference....maybe.
This seems like the correct progression parts wise correct?
Car already has lower control arms and tubular trans tunnel brace, so a torque arm and panhard rod will come after the above pieces along with some updated brake pads and rotors. After that we will go see how she does. I'd almost like to take it as it sits for a half day session just to see the difference....maybe.
This seems like the correct progression parts wise correct?
The bilstiens are not bad by any means but do not compare to the konis, especially if you are tracking the car.
What bushings are in those control arms?
12-20-2015, 06:30 PM
#18
I also agree with JD-AMG and others. Get the KONI shocks right away. They do make the biggest and best difference first.
Also, do not buy a new K member, ever. It's a complete waste of money. The stock unit is more than adequate and aftermarket units are more fragile and don't save a lot of weight. I'm sure there are threads about it here.
Also maybe check in to the FRRAX forum for advice from dedicated road race and autocross guys.
Also, do not buy a new K member, ever. It's a complete waste of money. The stock unit is more than adequate and aftermarket units are more fragile and don't save a lot of weight. I'm sure there are threads about it here.
Also maybe check in to the FRRAX forum for advice from dedicated road race and autocross guys.
12-20-2015, 08:44 PM
#19
On The Tree
Thread Starter
ya, the more i price things out the more sense it makes to run the koni shocks from the get go. sourcing the konis, springs,bars,torque arm, and panhard im around 2k, not too bad when half of that is shocks.
ill have to check the bushings in the arms....are the poly bushings not what you want?
ill have to check the bushings in the arms....are the poly bushings not what you want?