02 Black Magic

I now have about 1200 mi. on my car and I'm almost ready to start modding it. I'm thinking of weld in s.f.c., l.c.a., adj. p.bar, torque arm, front strut tower brace, and maybe a sway bar set. What I was wondering is if you have any suggestions on in which order I should buy and install them, and which pieces I should buy. I'm looking for a well balanced, good handling car, that can handle more power. Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

prockbp

where do you want to compete?

prockbp

well, there are tons of GREAT handling F-Stock f-bodies at the autocrosses i go to..

the only modifications they can make to the suspension are Shocks, front sway bar and allignment settings

most people are running Koni Double Adjustables-- 1200 dollars
Koni Sport Single Adjustable will also be a gr8 improvement and they're only $715

the only thing i would buy on your list is a panhard bar.. and you only need an adjustable bar if you're going to lower the car more than 1"

when you KNOW where you want to compete, then you should look around and see what is out there to help improve your handling

here are some mods you can't go wrong w/ though:
1. Koni Sport or Double Adjustable shocks
2. Panhard Bar
3. A good Allignment: -.5 to -1 degree of camber on both sides, then +3.5 to +5 degrees of caster on both sides, and zero Toe.. try to make these values as close to equal on both sides as the allignment guy can get them

all of that other stuff puts you in different classes at autocrosses... there are a lot of Street Modified F-bodies and F-Stock F-bodies where i autox... the fastest(not by much) cars out there are the F-Stockers(of course most of that has to do w/ driver ability, but don't underestimate the handling ability of your car)

[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: prockbp ]</p>

02 Black Magic

Sorry about the confusion. I generaly want an excellent handling car on the street, with possibly trying my hand at auto cross.

C5 Hardtop

Top of the line performance tires make a big difference. You will pay for the performance but its VERY much worth the money for a good set of tires.

Joel

1LE

iTrader: (2)

You can get Koni DA's for like 680 or somewhere around there if you order them by GM part number through gmpartsdirect or somewhere like that, just a suggestion. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

After buying a lot of the components you listed from varying manufacturers and vendors, I found that my car's handling characteristics really didn't change all that much. I just shifted the problems around.

When I finally decided I really didn't know as much as I thought I did concerning chassis tuning, I looked for someone who did know a thing or 2 about it, specifically 4th gen F-Body chassis tuning.

Lou Gigliotti (www.lgmotorsports.com) was a huge help in getting my handling woes identified and fixed.

He pointed out what was happening, dynamically, as the car rolls through corners. He then pointed out why my car's suspension was not doing a good job at addressing those poor handling characteristics. Finally he gave me some solutions to those issues.

And it was never about throwing G2 parts at my car, but about taking what I had and getting the car to a point where it would be competitive.

The problem in doing it way I did it, is I bought a lot of componentry that didn't work well together and in many cases one part hindered the other from working as designed.

Also, I spent (wasted) a lot of money on these parts and ended up worsening my car's handling characteristics. These parts I wound up selling off for $.50 on the dollar.

Being as you are at ground zero, this is my advice, learned from buying componentry based upon price first. Remember, VALUE is not always the lowest price.

Decide what it is you expect. Be clear and be specific. "Better handling" isn't specific enough. Figure out what it is you want to do in your car.

Find a vendor that has a race designed, race engineered and race proven suspension package. LG won World Chamllenge championships with a 4th gen Camaro on a road course. Sam Strano (www.stranoparts.com) has been at the top of his field in SCCA Solo2 (autocross) for several years. Either of these guys will help you out if asked.

I was specifically told to stay away from adjustable shocks. Being a rookie at suspension tuning, the adjustability aspect of those shocks is just something else to chase or screw up when things begin to go bad.

One last thing ... your "handling" setup does not include anything about tires, brakes or education. Nothing will lower laptimes like good tires, excellent brakes and seat time. All that suspension componentry will help a consistant driver shave 1/10s off of lap times. Tires, brakes and smarts will shave 10s of seconds.

You might ask ... is my car ('98 TA) a good handling car? I dunno. It seems to hold good lines, is predictable under track "racing" scenarios and my laptimes are within reach of the local hotshoes. But I've never driven what someone else has terms "good handling" so I haven't anything to compare it to.

Good luck!

02 Black Magic

Sorry it took me so long to respond, I was on vacation snowmobiling in Maine. I just wanted to thank you all for the time and consideration. In response to mitchntx, The car has the stock brakes, Goodyear GSC 245 50 Z R16 tires (factory QLC option). As far as education I graduated from a tech high school majoring in auto. tech. in '97, I currently work as a tech./rebuilder for my father. As far as seat time, in a car it's nomminal, I've raced snowmobiles in sportsmen classes (ice oval, cross country, and ice drags ) for several years. My father is an ex-race car driver and builder (drags and stock car racing), he's an excellent source of info., but not to much road racing experience. I just want to arm myself with knowledge before making any modifications. As far as parts go I just want the best value for my money, I'm not afraid to pay a little more for quality or superior engineering. Like you, I'm interested in understanding suspension dynamics, and any suggestions as to where I could accumulate additional info. would be greatly appreciated. I'm not quite sure what I would like to do with the car, I know I'd like to try some sort of road racing, but I don't know where to start, and I'm looking for guidance. By the way I only live about 2 hours from Lime Rock.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

By education, I meant driving schools, driving experience, etc.

www.autocross.com has a bunch of regional sites associated with it. I'm sure there is one near you. It's an inexpensive and fun way to get started

www.opentracking.com has a lot of good information about lapping sessions on road courses around the country

www.nasaproracing.com is a group that mirrors SCCA and offers instructor lead lapping sessions for people like you and me. Go here:

http://www.nasanortheast.net/events.shtml

and you will see that they are offering HPDE (High Performance Driver's Education) at Lime Rock on April 6th and again in November

I've found it's all about face time. If promoters and drivers see you and recognize you, you will find ways to get track time.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: mitchntx ]</p>

jhelms

iTrader: (2)

Man this is an AWESOME thread!

02 Black Magic

I want to thank all of you, most of all mitchnx. All of the info was great. I have now contacted the New England SCCA. They have a preseason tech inspection March 23 in Deerfield, MA, I'm planning on attending.

<small>[ March 13, 2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: 02 Black Magic ]</small>

BillS

iTrader: (13)

Don't bother with the Tech inspection, Novices are not allowed to do the once a year tech. If you mod the car then you have to tech every event. I race the local SCCA events and between Karl Witt and myself we have the best set up autox F-Bodies in the NER region. I plan on stopping by the F-body dyno day in Worcester that same day with my SS if the weather is good. You are welcome to take a look. Shoot me a private e-mail with any questions.
PS listen to Sam Strano, He knows these cars.

<small>[ March 13, 2002, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: bill salie ]</small>

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by bill salie:
<strong>
PS listen to Sam Strano, He knows these cars.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For AX ... amen, brother ...