which handles better? stock for stock. skid pad auto x course ect. some kid on a local ricer forums acts like his type r is god. so if you can find any links to this info it would be apreciated thanks.

this kid challenged me to an race on the auto x track i ahve a stock suspension lt1.

 

You would probably get smoked if you've never been to an AX and he has ...

It's about seat time, not as much about the car as you might think ....

 

hes never been and either have i. he just brought auto x up because he knows he has no chance in a drag race, but the funny part is he builds hhis cars for drag racing.

 

Which Type-R?

If its an Integra, he probably has you in handling, the car is significantly lighter than yours, and has all around independant suspension.

But your will be able to powerslide around, and he will have to use his e-brake to get the rear end to step out if needed.

 

Look at it this way, in national autocross competition, integra type r's are dominant in the DS stock class, and 1le camaro's are dominant in FS stock class. FS has a higher pax index number, which basically means on average, FS is a faster class than DS.

This is very course dependent though. If the autocross course is open and flowing, ideally you would have the advantage. If it is tight like many local autocrosses are, you'll be in trouble. This is really an apples to oranges comparison though.

 

Having been to (but never competed in... yet...) several AutoX events in the past year, I've seen that sliding is HIGHLY frowned upon and will probably get you thrown off the course. Powersliding and e-brake slides are doubly so. Not only that, but they slow you down significantly. There is no benefit to sliding. Case closed.

It does look kinds cool though...

On a different note, AutoX courses require very low speed handling and, more so, driver skill. The Integra, or any Japanese "sports" car ( ) for that matte, will have the advantage of a short wheelbase for the quick steering response, making for incredibly darty low speed handling. For example, the Mini Cooper S, regardless of how retarded it looks and how slow it is, DOMINATES AutoX courses, getting better times than Ferraris, just because of its shortass wheelbase.

Your car, on the other hand, will have the advantage of cutting time off in the straight lines (if any). Your car may handle well, but you would have had better luck in a road race with higher speed handling stressed more so. But track fees would have killed you any way. The long wheelbase of F-Bodys makes for poor low speed handling; but if the suspension is done right, I've seen some DAMN fast F-Bodys on the AutoX.

And another thing, the lack of IRS may be a problem as solid axles don't allow for weight transfer as well as IRS, but rigid suspension makes that negligable.

As a reccomendation, if this race is really imortant to you, go buy some DOT spec R-compound tires (Hoosier, Michelin, and Kuhmo make some good ones - shop around and ask questions) off of TireRack, or get some real slicks. Tires will make ALL THE DIFFERENCE in your cars handling. To build your skill, try setting up some cones in a parking lot and running through them a few times to hone in your suspension alignment (if you can) and to get an idea of how much room you have to work in and how to drive at those low speeds. Depending on your rear end ratio, you might wanna think about keeping your car in second gear so you don't have to waste time shifting. God knows you've got the torque to pull through in 2nd. If you must shift... heel toe it, match revs, and do it as fast as you can. Remember: enter a turn on the outside, hit the apex on the inside, and exit on the outside. Also, understeer is bad (never driven an F-body that close to the limit YET so i don't know if they get understeer)... but weight transfer can be a good thing to prevent it: try letting off the gas or applying the brakes to get your weight back on the front tires. If you MUST, to avoid understeer, be prepared to kick the rear end out just a little, and take the **** from the angry judges.

Ideas on alignment (I've never aligned an F-body and don't know how much room there is to align the car): Camber - a couple degrees negative might help, Caster - very positive, Toe - maybe slightly in. Remember you can always test it out and change it. But test it at low speeds, these angles are set up for low speed handling.

Hey man, it might be a close race, but good luck. Go out there and show that ricer whose boss!!!

 

Honestly, there are so many variables at an autox. Stock for stock, with the same driver, it would be a close thing - maybe even advantage type-r.

However, when you begin modding them, the F-body responds a bit better. Why? Because the next class up from stock is Street Prepared. In SP, you can do pretty much any suspension modifications you want (well, under $10,000, anyway). However, you can do very little HP mods.

Why does this matter? Because the LT1/LS1 already has a big HP advantage, but the type-r has better suspension. When you go SP, the suspension advantage gets negated, but you've still got HP. Sure, you still weigh 1000lbs more, but with 315mm wide, R-compound tires, you can still take turns as fast or faster.

But, driver is the biggest component. You take a guy who is so-so, put him in a Z06 and he will lose to a guy who is utterly awesome driving a Yugo. Every time. Trust me, I still lose to this one guy, all the time, no matter what he is driving. He is just a better driver - plain and simple.

 

well by far the biggest factor in autox is driver skill, the best shot is to take classes

 

F-body's push like pigs. The only fast way around a turn that you tend to push through is to slow down. Stepping out the rear is not faster, you need to use all your available tire traction for turning, which means slow to the point where your front end stays planted, and this is something you need to do BEFORE the car pushes. Only experience with the car will tell you how much speed you can carry through a turn. Keep in mind its better to enter a turn too slow than too fast. You can add speed easily, but once you start to push the front end, you have wasted the turn and lost a good bit of time.

For alignment on a stock camaro, get as much negative camber and as much positive castor as you can, keeping things roughly equal between the sides of the car. You won't be able to overdo camber on a stock camaro.

Just remember, integra type r's are one of the best stock autocross cars made IMO. People seem to be able to drive them very fast from the get-go, but on a good autocross course (moderate speed, flowing course) given all else equal (tires, prep to the rules of stock class) f-body's should be faster. If you get a 'miata' course, tight, no flow, turn and squirt you are in trouble.

 

Ha ha, mostly what rushman said; I can see that he's not a FS and ESP champ for nothing! If neither one of you have AXed before, the type of car almost doesn't matter. As mentioned by others, the key to getting a fbody around an AX course is to avoid over-driving it, but go as fast as your tires will allow. "Go as fast as you can, but no faster," LOL. (rephrased Albert Einstein quote) That brings us to tires. Let me restate what others have said: the most important AX mod is tires. I think this is even more true of an fbody than other cars, because it is heavy and powerful. Another quote (unknown author) "Any car on gumballs is faster than any car without them." Gumball is the old school term for a very sticky race tire. Get a set of Hoosier A3S04's or Kumho V710's, and you will kick his butt, assuming you can drive your car properly.

Driving Properly:
Look ahead at least one turn, preferably two. Do all of your braking with the front wheels straight. Hold a constant speed mid turn, but modulate the throttle to sense the edge of tire grip. Gently roll into the throttle at the same time you unwind the wheel on corner exit. Full throttle on straights, and use all of your car's braking power. If you can do all of this your first time out, you are a lot better then me. But these are the things it takes to be fast in AX. I'm not a champ, but I have some experiance and I've been to the Evolution driving school.

 

This race will totally depend on driver skill.. How well you can handle your car, and how well you can read the course. Neither car is so far over powering the other to say whos car hands down would win. If your car could run circles around the other, this would allow for mistakes.. i dont think thats the case. Those stock 4 bangers are 15-16 sec cars, but your LT1 is pry 14-14.5 on streets, that leaves little room for mistakes.

 

Check out this link to the last event I just went to http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/results...yes&points=yes

See how all the cars don't really matter that much. Some are a bit more dominating with similar driver skill, but its really about driver skill. How many novices do you see on there that are close to the top in placement for each class???