Supercharger vs Turbo.... OFFICIAL ARGUMENT THREAD.
05-05-2016, 07:15 AM
#181
Guys, there is this thing that's really cool and has some good info on it. It's called the internet. If you can resist buying a bunch of shiny new parts on the first day of research it's not that hard to spec a turbo combo. Guys have been over camming and over converting NA setups forever and it's not because it's hard to find info on the best combo. I think one of the benefits of turbos is if you can avoid the donkey dick syndrome, a conservative setup will perform great and if you need more, just turn it up.
05-05-2016, 08:17 AM
#182
Does that mean that blower setups are for idiots and turbos are for geniuses? Of course not. Someone who is venturing into forced induction for the first time and is spending several $1000 and doesn't do their homework up front, probably shouldn't go FI at all, or at a minimum, not be shocked when their setup doesnt do what they wanted it to. Its not rockets science, but people treat it that way when their junkyard 5.3 and a 66mm turbo with a T-Rex cam doesn't make 1000hp. I went through Corky Bell's Maximum Boost and about 4 other books before I bought the stuff for my first turbo setup. Doesn't make me special, just means I don't expect amazing results by putting random crap together cause someone on here said it was the best. Do your homework FIRST!
05-05-2016, 08:30 AM
#183
As you said, the same goes for camshafts and other parts. Even without the turbo. it isnt a problem specific to turbos. its more of an experience/research/commitment related issue. A turbo can supplement the VE curve, and how it responds depends on how it is setup. Just like a nice new set of heads.
05-05-2016, 09:21 AM
#184
Let's be honest, we're all guilty of constantly wanting more. A simple 'rebuild' turns into bigger cubes, bigger turbo/blower, bigger fuel system, bigger tires and suspension to be able to handle the additional power, and before you know it, you are at 1000+hp on the street, and then the track bug hits.
Not you realize that you're pretty fast, but a bigger turbo or blower would make you more competitive, as well as dropping 300lbs off the car.
Then you have some mild success, and want to go further.... it's a slippery slope. It's why I quit racing my car years ago. The cost vs reward just didn't add up to me.
So yes. I like that I have a simple, easy to maintain 900rwhp platform that didn't require me to custom fabricate or mount things, or remove a/c or sway bar, or toss the exhaust out the front bumper.
I enjoy my car, and my kids do as well, and that's what really matters to me, not an et, or a dyno number.
So instead of worrying and fixing, and upgrading, Im enjoying the experience.
Not you realize that you're pretty fast, but a bigger turbo or blower would make you more competitive, as well as dropping 300lbs off the car.
Then you have some mild success, and want to go further.... it's a slippery slope. It's why I quit racing my car years ago. The cost vs reward just didn't add up to me.
So yes. I like that I have a simple, easy to maintain 900rwhp platform that didn't require me to custom fabricate or mount things, or remove a/c or sway bar, or toss the exhaust out the front bumper.
I enjoy my car, and my kids do as well, and that's what really matters to me, not an et, or a dyno number.
So instead of worrying and fixing, and upgrading, Im enjoying the experience.
Nothing like buying things we don't need, with money we don't have, to impress people we don't like. What a silly game.
05-05-2016, 11:15 AM
#185
How about durability and longevity? Seems like centrifugal's need to be rebuilt every 15,000 to 25,000 miles. Not to mention if its a sealed assembly, the oil in it needs to also be replaced regularly. Turbos can last 300,000 miles and are lubricated by free engine oil.
05-05-2016, 11:46 AM
#186
How about durability and longevity? Seems like centrifugal's need to be rebuilt every 15,000 to 25,000 miles. Not to mention if its a sealed assembly, the oil in it needs to also be replaced regularly. Turbos can last 300,000 miles and are lubricated by free engine oil.
When talking about performance part longevity, it's kind of like arguing about which gets better gas mileage...
We're talking about cars now making north of 700-2000hp being driven on the street. We all accept that maintenance times will be reduced.
05-05-2016, 04:31 PM
#189
If I get the low end of that range, 15,000 miles, before I need to rebuild my Procharger, that's an easy 12-15 years for me considering I only drive the car about 1,000 miles a year.
When talking about performance part longevity, it's kind of like arguing about which gets better gas mileage...
We're talking about cars now making north of 700-2000hp being driven on the street. We all accept that maintenance times will be reduced.
When talking about performance part longevity, it's kind of like arguing about which gets better gas mileage...
We're talking about cars now making north of 700-2000hp being driven on the street. We all accept that maintenance times will be reduced.
05-05-2016, 07:56 PM
#190
It felt that way because that is how the combination you selected resulted. Just because the turbine/exhaust was not sized appropriately to generate boost at the rpm you desired (more early/low rpm) doesn't make that the turbocharger's fault. A twin turbo setup pushing a mild 650rwhp can be accomplished using twin T04E 50trim turbochargers which on 3L per side would spool well in the 2000's rpm range, for a max of 550-600rwhp as an example.
My problem was not that boost didnt hit until 3000 or so, the part I didnt car for was the tip in throttle response and up to about 3000 rpm. I really believe that running 10:1cr will help out with this.
05-06-2016, 08:26 AM
#196
I don't think anyone doubts that Turbos are capable of making more power on the same basic build when trying to get every last drop available, They all can make big power though. The roots blower motor in the video above made over 900 and there was still more in it and the torque curve is just crazy, Well over 600ftlbs at 2,000rpms. How could you not have fun with that in a street driven vehicle. What I like about roots style blower motor is the instant torque.... Not the slightest hint of lag either.
Then you have practical applications of both.
The roots blown motor is going into a early 50's 5-window Chevy truck pro street style so turbos would make more power if I were chasing ETs but I wanted the cool factor of the big *** polished blower poking through the hood.
The S-10 I'm building is going to be more pro touring style with 18x9 and 19x12 low profile tires and big sway bars and the 6-speed, In this case the screw charger is a better choice for the intended purpose of the vehicle.
If I were only trying to make the most power then both would have been turbo builds but there are more things to consider than peak HP when choosing what you need for a build.
Then you have practical applications of both.
The roots blown motor is going into a early 50's 5-window Chevy truck pro street style so turbos would make more power if I were chasing ETs but I wanted the cool factor of the big *** polished blower poking through the hood.
The S-10 I'm building is going to be more pro touring style with 18x9 and 19x12 low profile tires and big sway bars and the 6-speed, In this case the screw charger is a better choice for the intended purpose of the vehicle.
If I were only trying to make the most power then both would have been turbo builds but there are more things to consider than peak HP when choosing what you need for a build.
05-06-2016, 08:38 AM
#197
If I get the low end of that range, 15,000 miles, before I need to rebuild my Procharger, that's an easy 12-15 years for me considering I only drive the car about 1,000 miles a year.
When talking about performance part longevity, it's kind of like arguing about which gets better gas mileage...
We're talking about cars now making north of 700-2000hp being driven on the street. We all accept that maintenance times will be reduced.
When talking about performance part longevity, it's kind of like arguing about which gets better gas mileage...
We're talking about cars now making north of 700-2000hp being driven on the street. We all accept that maintenance times will be reduced.
05-06-2016, 09:51 AM
#199
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