*Place your bets* GT350 vs stock 6th gen
07-13-2016, 10:10 PM
#461
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Not here it ain't
526 > 505. I'm just saying the Voodoo dyno looks low compared to others and the LS7 looks really high compared to others. I wouldn't be surprised if the GT350 is losing more power with 91 than the LS7 is, not even counting drivetrain differences.
Luckily 93 and E85 is everywhere where I live... California must suck for gas.
Voodoo has higher peak power output than the LS7 whether you like it or not. Just at a glance, by 6500 RPM the LS7 torque is falling off to Voodoo levels. Not that you would spend a lot of time at 6500-7000 on the track with the LS7 anyways. The Voodoo on the other hand still has 1750 RPM to play with at 6500 where the power is matching and then beating the LS7. At 6500 it's still picking up steam. With the gearing and how quickly the Voodoo revs, I don't see any reason to ever be much below 6k RPM's, but we'll see.
The biggest difference is the torque range that actually matters to the LS7 (3500-6000), the LS7 has a big torque advantage and it's decently flat (GT350 is surprisingly a little flatter) which kicks *** for road course. I will point out though, that is an unusually high torque output from the LS7. There were stock C6Z's dyno'ing under 415wtq. I wonder if they made changes to the LS7 for the Z/28. I can't imagine it had a more efficient drivetrain than the C6Z's did???
Clearly the Voodoo did something right power wise, because Motortrend tested the GT350 1/4 mile 12.4 @ 117.8. Z/28 tested at 12.3 @ 116.1. These cars weigh within 30 lbs of each other.
The Voodoo also lacked DI, was down 1.8L, and still ended up making more power. Sure, it had to use 3 more cam shafts, 16 more valves, flat plane crank, and VVTI to do it, but it's playing at a huge displacement deficit. When it comes to NA, displacement eventually becomes a choke point.
I ran VIR Full Course @ 2:09. Stock everything, street tires. The car definitely had more in it, but I'm nowhere near pro driver level. The C6Z limits are just so high, they are more capable than any Mustang ever made and it really does take a pro like Randy Pobst to wring every last bit of performance out... even stock w/ street tires. Of course it also still had to come home in one piece lol! With lightweight 18's all around, Hoosier R7's, and a lot more track time it definitely could hit sub 2 minutes, which is very very very fast for a street car. Probably not by me though... last thing I would ever want to do is risk wrecking it trying to break 2 minutes.
But just looking at a dyno graph isn't going to tell you how fast an engine revs.
I've always thought the LS7 was the overall better package, but there's no doubt the Voodoo is one seriously badass 5.2. Just wish it didn't only come in a 3800 lbs Mustang.
Luckily 93 and E85 is everywhere where I live... California must suck for gas.
Voodoo has higher peak power output than the LS7 whether you like it or not. Just at a glance, by 6500 RPM the LS7 torque is falling off to Voodoo levels. Not that you would spend a lot of time at 6500-7000 on the track with the LS7 anyways. The Voodoo on the other hand still has 1750 RPM to play with at 6500 where the power is matching and then beating the LS7. At 6500 it's still picking up steam. With the gearing and how quickly the Voodoo revs, I don't see any reason to ever be much below 6k RPM's, but we'll see.
The biggest difference is the torque range that actually matters to the LS7 (3500-6000), the LS7 has a big torque advantage and it's decently flat (GT350 is surprisingly a little flatter) which kicks *** for road course. I will point out though, that is an unusually high torque output from the LS7. There were stock C6Z's dyno'ing under 415wtq. I wonder if they made changes to the LS7 for the Z/28. I can't imagine it had a more efficient drivetrain than the C6Z's did???
Clearly the Voodoo did something right power wise, because Motortrend tested the GT350 1/4 mile 12.4 @ 117.8. Z/28 tested at 12.3 @ 116.1. These cars weigh within 30 lbs of each other.
The Voodoo also lacked DI, was down 1.8L, and still ended up making more power. Sure, it had to use 3 more cam shafts, 16 more valves, flat plane crank, and VVTI to do it, but it's playing at a huge displacement deficit. When it comes to NA, displacement eventually becomes a choke point.
I ran VIR Full Course @ 2:09. Stock everything, street tires. The car definitely had more in it, but I'm nowhere near pro driver level. The C6Z limits are just so high, they are more capable than any Mustang ever made and it really does take a pro like Randy Pobst to wring every last bit of performance out... even stock w/ street tires. Of course it also still had to come home in one piece lol! With lightweight 18's all around, Hoosier R7's, and a lot more track time it definitely could hit sub 2 minutes, which is very very very fast for a street car. Probably not by me though... last thing I would ever want to do is risk wrecking it trying to break 2 minutes.
But just looking at a dyno graph isn't going to tell you how fast an engine revs.
I've always thought the LS7 was the overall better package, but there's no doubt the Voodoo is one seriously badass 5.2. Just wish it didn't only come in a 3800 lbs Mustang.
You should refer to the graph above and wonder where that extra 21hp went before you say 526>505.........because it's not there. They made the same hp but the voodoo made less tq. That my friend is a less powerful engine.
If a c6z was dynoing at less than 415 i would be questioning something. From a quick look many have dyno'd over 460. Now with the z28 having electric ps you can see why it would dyno more.
Ls7s are underated a bit btw. Could be why the dyno is close.
Now....back to the 6gen vs gt350. Here's another test. In this one it matches the gt350 stopping distance and goes a 23.9 figure 8.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...ro-ss-arrival/
Last edited by HioSSilver; 07-13-2016 at 10:19 PM.
07-13-2016, 10:35 PM
#463
07-13-2016, 10:55 PM
#465
07-13-2016, 11:04 PM
#466
Looks like you lost the last one to me. But I think you said the bro was getting warm lol.
Looked close enough that if you didn't have a drag pack you would have lost. A switch to a 93 tune you would have lost. An extra passenger you would have lost. Funny thing is...the op beat an e85 car in a close race...and it didn't have a drag pack. Has beaten it from rolls and at the track.
You needed every single one of your mods for the win. IMO.
07-13-2016, 11:27 PM
#467
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The voodoo is awesome. It just does not make more power.
You should refer to the graph above and wonder where that extra 21hp went before you say 526>505.........because it's not there. They made the same hp but the voodoo made less tq. That my friend is a less powerful engine.
If a c6z was dynoing at less than 415 i would be questioning something. From a quick look many have dyno'd over 460. Now with the z28 having electric ps you can see why it would dyno more.
Ls7s are underated a bit btw. Could be why the dyno is close.
Now....back to the 6gen vs gt350. Here's another test. In this one it matches the gt350 stopping distance and goes a 23.9 figure 8.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...ro-ss-arrival/
You should refer to the graph above and wonder where that extra 21hp went before you say 526>505.........because it's not there. They made the same hp but the voodoo made less tq. That my friend is a less powerful engine.
If a c6z was dynoing at less than 415 i would be questioning something. From a quick look many have dyno'd over 460. Now with the z28 having electric ps you can see why it would dyno more.
Ls7s are underated a bit btw. Could be why the dyno is close.
Now....back to the 6gen vs gt350. Here's another test. In this one it matches the gt350 stopping distance and goes a 23.9 figure 8.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...ro-ss-arrival/
The wheel torque was 415, not whp in that C6Z I was talking about.
Motortrend website must be down because that link doesn't go to anything.
07-13-2016, 11:28 PM
#468
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
So once again. Same dyno...same day.....same fuel.....same test procedures.....same people testing
How does it get any more fair than that?
One of the closest races ive ever seen without it being a tie.
Looks like you lost the last one to me. But I think you said the bro was getting warm lol.
Looked close enough that if you didn't have a drag pack you would have lost. A switch to a 93 tune you would have lost. An extra passenger you would have lost. Funny thing is...the op beat an e85 car in a close race...and it didn't have a drag pack. Has beaten it from rolls and at the track.
You needed every single one of your mods for the win. IMO.
Looks like you lost the last one to me. But I think you said the bro was getting warm lol.
Looked close enough that if you didn't have a drag pack you would have lost. A switch to a 93 tune you would have lost. An extra passenger you would have lost. Funny thing is...the op beat an e85 car in a close race...and it didn't have a drag pack. Has beaten it from rolls and at the track.
You needed every single one of your mods for the win. IMO.
07-14-2016, 05:30 AM
#471
07-14-2016, 05:45 AM
#472
TECH Enthusiast
Got it... Thx...
Well, to help add to the BS of this thread, here is my first race with my 6G.
I managed to race a 13-14 CTSV sedan on the highway this past weekend in our 6G A8..
Coming home from the movies with the wife, I see this pearl white caddy chasing me down as I got on the freeway. He passed me/got ahead and I tried to line up with him to slow him down but he wouldnt slow down or square up. As soon as I caught up to his back bumper, he nailed it from about 70 ish. I did the same(chase is a race), he pulled about 1 more car on the hit(2 car lead at this point, 1 from the head start and 1 from the stolen move), after that, we were tied together.. He couldnt pull an inch and I couldnt pull an inch...ran to about 115 or so before he ran into traffic.
No doubt on an even start race, they would be VERY VERY close. Sorry for no vids...This was an unexpected deal on a sunday afternoon.
I'm not sure what a stock CTSV runs in the 1/4 but it must be pretty damn close to a 6G.
07-14-2016, 05:52 AM
#473
Got it... Thx...
Well, to help add to the BS of this thread, here is my first race with my 6G.
I managed to race a 13-14 CTSV sedan on the highway this past weekend in our 6G A8..
Coming home from the movies with the wife, I see this pearl white caddy chasing me down as I got on the freeway. He passed me/got ahead and I tried to line up with him to slow him down but he wouldnt slow down or square up. As soon as I caught up to his back bumper, he nailed it from about 70 ish. I did the same(chase is a race), he pulled about 1 more car on the hit(2 car lead at this point, 1 from the head start and 1 from the stolen move), after that, we were tied together.. He couldnt pull an inch and I couldnt pull an inch...ran to about 115 or so before he ran into traffic.
No doubt on an even start race, they would be VERY VERY close. Sorry for no vids...This was an unexpected deal on a sunday afternoon.
I'm not sure what a stock CTSV runs in the 1/4 but it must be pretty damn close to a 6G.
Well, to help add to the BS of this thread, here is my first race with my 6G.
I managed to race a 13-14 CTSV sedan on the highway this past weekend in our 6G A8..
Coming home from the movies with the wife, I see this pearl white caddy chasing me down as I got on the freeway. He passed me/got ahead and I tried to line up with him to slow him down but he wouldnt slow down or square up. As soon as I caught up to his back bumper, he nailed it from about 70 ish. I did the same(chase is a race), he pulled about 1 more car on the hit(2 car lead at this point, 1 from the head start and 1 from the stolen move), after that, we were tied together.. He couldnt pull an inch and I couldnt pull an inch...ran to about 115 or so before he ran into traffic.
No doubt on an even start race, they would be VERY VERY close. Sorry for no vids...This was an unexpected deal on a sunday afternoon.
I'm not sure what a stock CTSV runs in the 1/4 but it must be pretty damn close to a 6G.
Which color/trans option did you get? LolI had a very similar experience with a buddies stock ctsv2. Posted the vid on here in fact. It was some close runs between the two. Sounds like I need to find me a stock 6th gen to run.
07-14-2016, 10:15 AM
#477
One of the closest races ive ever seen without it being a tie.
Looks like you lost the last one to me. But I think you said the bro was getting warm lol.
Looked close enough that if you didn't have a drag pack you would have lost. A switch to a 93 tune you would have lost. An extra passenger you would have lost. Funny thing is...the op beat an e85 car in a close race...and it didn't have a drag pack. Has beaten it from rolls and at the track.
You needed every single one of your mods for the win. IMO.
Looks like you lost the last one to me. But I think you said the bro was getting warm lol.
Looked close enough that if you didn't have a drag pack you would have lost. A switch to a 93 tune you would have lost. An extra passenger you would have lost. Funny thing is...the op beat an e85 car in a close race...and it didn't have a drag pack. Has beaten it from rolls and at the track.
You needed every single one of your mods for the win. IMO.
Needed them all? Wrong. You tell me how the cars are evenly matched when I am able to pull from half a car behind to a full car ahead in the span of 100mph. I know exactly how the races went, and how my car was pulling on the 6gen. Had we went to 140mph there would have been zero doubt even in the Hiocrews minds which car was the faster one.
At the track? It would have been a slaughter. Which it actually was.... we met first time at my local 1/8th mile track.
07-14-2016, 10:18 AM
#478
No reason to wait. This is the most comparable test you will find. All 3 same dyno same day. Anything less and all of you would bitch about different dynos.
So once again. Same dyno...same day.....same fuel.....same test procedures.....same people testing
How does it get any more fair than that?
Poppa got 2 outta 5 that day with his modded 5br0 vs stock 6gen. He did well
So once again. Same dyno...same day.....same fuel.....same test procedures.....same people testing
How does it get any more fair than that?
Poppa got 2 outta 5 that day with his modded 5br0 vs stock 6gen. He did well
And again... that was a unicorn LS7.. never has that output been matched stock by one, or a C6Z. Your argument is still invalid.
We had 3 full races that day.... at the end of all 3 I was ahead. It would have just gotten worse if we had pulled higher. Get over it.
07-14-2016, 12:12 PM
#479
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07-14-2016, 12:36 PM
#480
TECH Enthusiast
That's awesome man! It's always fun to get some strange. Which color/trans option did you get? Lol
I had a very similar experience with a buddies stock ctsv2. Posted the vid on here in fact. It was some close runs between the two. Sounds like I need to find me a stock 6th gen to run.
Which color/trans option did you get? LolI had a very similar experience with a buddies stock ctsv2. Posted the vid on here in fact. It was some close runs between the two. Sounds like I need to find me a stock 6th gen to run.
Just snooping around on the net, it seems the '13-15 CTSV sedans will run 11.90-12.2s @ 116-118 stock so.... I guess they are pretty close.. I would like to run one on a dead even start....and preferbly not from a 70+ roll....LOL