Alien

iTrader: (1)

I've read thread after thread about how engine mods must work together to get the most out of them and tried to absorb as much knowledge as possible. Here's what I'm planning for my build. Please tell me if something is out of line or am missing something.

Car is an '92 Camaro that I'm starting to swap an LS1 into. Mainly will be a Sunday driver with A/C, maybe a few autocrosses or open lapping events, with one trip to the drag stip just to see what it'll do. NO drag radials, forced induction or spray. While not high on the list, I want it to be as quiet as possible and not lumpy at idle/cruise. What is high on the list is reliability. It's not a max effort no-budget build, but at the same time isn't a limited budget build either. I do want to be smart with my money tho, but not miss my goal because I didn't spend an extra $200 on 243 castings etc.

Starting with a high mileage 2000 LS1 Camaro engine with 241 heads. Once I get it running, I'll pull it later and get it rebuilt most likely by Texas Speed & Performance main driving factor being I'm also in Texas. I will call them when I'm closer to pulling the trigger late 2017, but for now just looking to make sure I'm heading in the right direction. Goal is 430+hp/400+tq to the wheels.

Bottom end
346/347cid LS1 block*, stock crank*
Mahle -4cc Pistons
Stock Rods
TSP Cam 25-TSP228232 228/232 .600"/.600" 114LSA
Johnson Lifters, LS2 tray
LS2 timing chain w/ timing chain damper
ATI Balancer - stock dia, ARP Crank pulley bolt
Camaro oil pan* w/ Improved Racing oil pan baffle

Top end
243 heads, ported by TSP, CC/CR to be determined, stock gaskets
2.02"/1.57" valves
TSP .660" dual valve spring kit w/ ti retainers
TSP pushrods
CHE trunnion upgrade

Air
K&N RC-5102 Filter* to 4" tubing*
85mm Truck MAF* w/ Halltech screen*
Ported stock LS1 TB*
LS6 intake* w/ heatshield*
LS6 PVC/valley cover*

Exhaust
Hedman Mid Length headers 45720 (1-3/4" to 2.5" collector)* coated by Poly Dyn*
Magnaflow Spun Cats x2 59906*
Vibrant Y Merge 2.5" to 3.5"*
Magnaflow Muffler 3.5" single exit 12909*
to be replaced later with...
Kooks Mid Length headers 22311400 (1 7/8" to 3" collector) coated by Poly Dyn
Magnaflow Spun Cats x2 59929
Vibrant Y Merge 3.0" to 3.5"

Fuel
LS1 gas tank* w/ racetronix pump*
FaSSter fuel rails*
32-36lb fuel injectors

Drivetrain
Diamond Stage 1 or 2 clutch w/ 15lb FW
T56*
LS1 driveshaft*
3.42 10-bolt w/torsen*

Electrical
LS1 PCM*, tuned 91 Octane min.
24x*
stock LS1 coils*

Some of these parts I've already purchased*, so would take some great convincing to go another direction for certain things. Asking now tho for the parts still to be saved up for and bought.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Your list looks very well thought out. It looks like you're asking for some feedback. Here are a few areas I see for improvement:

Ported 243 heads are very good. But flow tends to be somewhat intake biased. Consider a 228/232-114 over a 228/228. If you were willing to live with a subtle chop, I'd honestly recommend more like a 228/236. Also, for some reason ported heads seem to like more intake lift and less exhaust lift. So, figure 228/236-114 0.620/0.603. Something like that.

I doubt at 430, the LS6 intake would be much of a restriction but a used fast 92/92 would guarantee you didn't leave easy power on the table.

Monster clutch is a great clutch, but if you can find a lighter clutch, it makes for very snappy throttle response (i.e. Fun). Just getting down to 30 pounds will really wake up the acceleration. If you have already bought the clutch, it's a good clutch. If you haven't, ask them about a lighter option.

On your exhaust, if you haven't purchased already, an x pipe is very worthwhile. Kooks would be crazy loud. The hooker black heart might be a very good option for you. X pipe will shift peak power up couple hundred rpm.

Nothing bad on your list, so if I made a suggestion but you already purchased, keep what you got.

DavidBoren

Personally, I would avoid overboring an LS1 block if at all possible. You could use GenIV rods with new GM rod bolts, and LS6 pistons with new rings.

I like you cam choice. It may not hit 430/400 on an honest dyno, but it should drive well and be easy to tune. The 228/228 has plenty of power in the usable rpm range for a street car, but single pattern cams usually don't impress on the dyno. If it feels strong and drives well, should matter way more than any dyno reading anyways.

Look into Morel lifters, skip the LS7 crap. The LS2 trays are nice for drop-in lifter replacements, or you can look into some link-bar lifters. You don't have to break the bank, but definitely do not skimp out on the valvetrain.

Don't forget the ARP crank pulley bolt. It is a way better investment than ARP rod bolts for stock rods.

Good choice on heads, valve size is spot on for the ~3.9" bore. I would keep the intake runner volume relatively small, in the ~220cc range, but that is just me. I would also shoot for whatever combustion chamber volume is necessary to achieve ~11:1 static compression. This is a little tricky because you should be measuring how far the your chosen pistons are above/below the finished deck @ TDC, and using whatever thickness of head gasket necessary to get optimal quench. Which is usually 0.035" to 0.040" on all aluminum LS motors. Once you know what thickness of head gasket you will be using, figuring out your static compression ratio won't be too difficult.

For the rockers, I would also use the Struab trunnion upgrade over the Comp version.

You seem to have a pretty good grasp on what you need. I am not trying to change your mind, but I think a true dual exhaust is always the proper way to go (if fitment is possible).

Good luck and keep us posted.

TheNutDriver

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure you will easily achieve your target.

Take a look at the dyno sheet I've attached. It's from a friend's WS6 and the car is totally stock apart from a set of long tube headers, SLP lid,a Borla cat back exhaust and tune.

This is crank horsepower though not RWHP.

Alien

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. Thanks!

Noted.

The LS6 intake is one of the parts already purchased, along with the headers and a few other minor parts. It was done mainly to eliminate the EGR cleanly. The FAST intake is a nice Ace up the sleeve if I'm short of the goal.

Agreed, tho they do offer a light weight 18lb flywheel in their packages.

I think exhaust is going to be my limiting factor. Car will be low (hence mid lengths over long tubes), and running true duals on a third gen is tight at best.

Agreed. I worked at the front counter of an automotive machine shop for a few years. Firm believer that you go only to the size required to clean up the cylinders. Size will be determined at time of teardown, but coming from old school sbc world, it's hard for me to accept a nearly 200k mile engine cleaning up even at +.007. Not saying it won't since I really don't have experience with LS1's. The shop mostly did older and oddball stuff, Packards, model T & A's, tractors, etc.

Are LS1 rods prone to failure, or is it suggested to get the floating pin? I haven't really looked into replacements, but I'm sure some used Gen IV GM rods will be cheaper than aftermarket and just as good for my needs.

I probably should have been more specific on my 'goal'. Will try get the car tuned on a Mustang Dyno and not really worry about the numbers, guessing around 405/375. I will make a few pulls on a dynojet just to tell the random guy at the gas station it makes 430+/400+.

That's a problem I have researching... looking at the dates of the threads. LS7 lifters were the thing to have at some point. Morel's (on TSP) look good and only $100 more, tho the link bar ones are $170 more on top of that. Do the link bars provide that much more security against the lifter spinning?

Noted.

Noted. I've been eyeing the ones by Colorado Speed since they are bushing style instead of the Comp bearing, but they're still pretty new and was waiting on the jury. Struab looks like it's the proven ticket.

I think it's going to come to a fitment and clearance issue. I want the car to be as street friendly as possible, even with it's 3' nose overhang.

Updated the 1st post with recommendations. Thanks again!

wph351

iTrader: (3)

I am in the middle of a VERY....VERY.... similar build.

One thing I've noticed missing from your list is what rear end you plan on running.

edit: I see now that you are running a 10 bolt. must have skimmed over that. Personally, I'd be more worried about it than I would be about your high mileage short block.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I would skip the 1 3/4 Hedman headers for a set of Hawk's 1 7/8 headers if you haven't already purchased headers. My 91 RS has the Hawk's 1 7/8 and they fit very well.4L60e

​​​​​Also since you are using the LS6 intake, it can be fitted with a 90/92mm snout by Tuned Port Induction Specialists. The LS6 intake with the 90mm snout works very well and will gain hp over the stock LS6 intake. If high rpm is your goal the fast 92 will probably make more top end hp.

3inch cut out in the I pipe can also get some hp. Electric is the way to go. It's loud when open.

My RS has twin 3 inch cut outs off the header primaries...worth 20 hp but it's really loud.

A friend tore down a 300,000+ mile 4.8 and it cleaned up nicely with a hone & no over bore.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

Sounds like a solid build...228/232 112 is going to soung great and drive well. Morel lifters are a solid choice. I would definitely try to find some 1 7/8 headers and a X pipe setup. Get the compression up over 11 and you should hit your power goal.

Alien

iTrader: (1)

LOL I was waiting for that. A Strange 12 bolt will replace the 10 bolt after it blows up... and my other spare rear end blows up. Basically the rear end is something that can be done at any time and really doesn't affect other parts, as in, requires rework of other stuff, so it gets put near the end of the list. Plus since I won't be putting in 4.10's or even 3.73's, that should help longevity.

I also feel I'm fairly easy on equipment. I have ran a 3rd gen 10-bolt and then an LT1 10 bolt behind an LT1/T5 in my roadrace car. No issues so far with any rear end or the trans, then again maybe I'm just lucky.

Headers already purchased. I know it's odd, but I want cats, and the mid lengths just make that part easier and avoid all the low clearance issues with LT's. If they were offered in 1 7/8, I'd have gotten those. I've gone back and forth on a cutout, but decided against it. They will eventually leak.

I'm a bit over the loud exhaust stuff, or wanting a certain cam just for the sound. My 4.0L Ranger had a 2 chamber flowmaster on it for 13 years. My T/A had Borla. I'm old now (36) and want my wife to actually want to ride in the car as well as not annoy the neighbors at 6am if I want to take it to work.

Noted along the same lines as the FAST, good to have this option in reserve.

Now that's really good to hear. Thanks for sharing.

wph351

iTrader: (3)

My 200,000 mile 5.7 bottom end looked nice. I did a very light hone, although it didn't need it.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

As for leaking cut outs, the electric ones may eventuality leak, I will find it with my 91 RS over time. However, the cut out on my 99 TA doesn't leak. Its been on the car for 14 years and 120,000+ miles. Its not electric. The SLP Dual/Dual is quite and on the rare occasions I want noise or race I uncap the cutout.. I'm 51 and never been a fan of loud exhaust just hp

Hi flowing cats definitely cut down on the exhaust smell, reduce noise and don't hurt hp much.

Regarding ground clearance my 91 RS looked like an airplane taking off after the ls1 swap due to weight reduction up front. The RS had the Eibach Sportlines and They had lower it about one inch, the weight reduction raised the nose about 3/4 to one inch. Depending on what you want and how much weight is lost that might be something to consider regarding the ground clearance. We cut half a coil upfront to level the car. Should have stay with that but cut another half coil to get the stance back and ended up a little to low. My RS lost AC, got light K, light hood etc.

svede1212

iTrader: (3)

A great way to go "lighter" on the clutch is to get a twin disk. Engagement is butter smooth with a light pedal. The compact diameter/weight towards the middle gives a lower MOI that does nearly the same thing as a lighter flywheel with a single. I have a McLeod RST with a 24# fly and it's snappy. That lower pedal pressure also equates to less stress on the slave seals.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Ditch the mid-length headers and get some good long tube headers. The rest of the setup looks just fine to me and I don't see any reason you won't hit your numbers.

Alien

iTrader: (1)

Question on the recommended Gen IV rods... If these rods are so much heavier (I've seen 40 grams thrown around here), is that enough that the LS1 crank will need heavy metal? Only thing I've seen for certain is it requires balancing, but no mention of adding heavy metal which can substantially add cost and may make aftermarket rods more appealing. I'll never have a bottom end rebuilt without balancing.

dave454ss

Hmm, interesting timing, I just dropped off my LS1 bottom end at my machine shop yesterday...its future home is in my 89 RS...

I'm gonna keep an eye on this as our builds are very similar in though...except I want some nice, slightly aggressive lope & chop at idle (My ol man has a 71 Chevelle with a seriously stout BBC in it and I dont want to sound like a Honda when parked next to it. )
other then the cam, I plan on 4L65E...

Heads...I posted another thread here about it, but my LS1 came with 706 castings...so I was planning on TEA Stage 2's the 2.04" valves..

Seriously crazy how similar we are thinking...I got the LS6 intake in the shop on the shelf, HOPING to reuse the majority of the bottom end after a complete refresh...etc..
And great choice of Vehicle

wph351

iTrader: (3)

Its third gen fever!
Im in the middle of an almost identical build!
Cool, its not just me this time.

dave454ss

I parked mine in November of 2000.....hasnt seen sunlight since. Was my first car, 53,000 miles on it currently, great/mint shape so for me its not a restoration, my car was a STRIPPED Down RS, when I say stripped down I mean no AC, Manual Windows, Manual Lock, V6,... I think the ONLY Option was the 700R4. I always wanted it to be a v8 Car in high school...I actually had a complete 350/TPI setup stored along side it to swap in but if I'm gonna swap something today its gonna be an LS... The ol Camaro gods were good to me and dropped a LS1 from a 99 into my lap a couple months ago...

wph351

iTrader: (3)

Did you have headlight covers on it at one time? I see the slip in type bracket beside your headlight.
Mine flew off at the big end of the 1/4, about 30 seconds after the PA announcer said "those covers tend to come off on cars trapping over 110" He nailed it.
Clean car you have. Congrats on doing what you want with it.

dave454ss

Thank You, and LOL..Sharp Eye...of course...you weren't cool in the mid/late 90's unless you had GTS Light covers..
You are right, I've had to turn around and pick up broken covers after they did the 3 digit fly off. I warrantied the last set and left em NIB..

Love your wheels...been debating on which way I want to go. I've always loved the 91-21 style, and I have a set off getting refinished now. But the ZO6 style is sweet too..

IRONFIST

Now I know this is how projects get out of control, but since reliability and streetability are your goals and you're already going to be building up the bottom end why not spend a few hundred bucks extra there and build a 383 stroker?
Looking back on my 6.0 build I should have spent the money I spent on my other mods on a stroker bottom end, I could always have done the heads, intake, cam, or exhaust later on with the engine in the car.