Supercharger vs Turbo.... OFFICIAL ARGUMENT THREAD.
#501
Trust me, I've said it at least a few times in this 500 count thread, but I have nothing against turbos. I'm sure at some point in time in my ownership, I'll build a turbo setup just to try it out.
I just see so many turbo guys bashing blower setups, and it's always the same thing... cost, horsepower robbing to turn the blower, doesn't make boost quick enough etc etc.
I just see so many turbo guys bashing blower setups, and it's always the same thing... cost, horsepower robbing to turn the blower, doesn't make boost quick enough etc etc.
cost, horsepower robbing to turn the blower, doesn't make boost quick enough
Having owned both, I literally see zero performance advantages of a centri blower VS a turbo looking at just the facts. The guys that argue this point usually don’t have experience with turbo setups on a like combo. They assume what they have is great without the experience of a comparable turbo on similar engine. I’m not saying a centri engine can’t run damn good. We all know they can.
If the blower guys would just admit they are running an inferior power adder out of personal preference, that would be cool. I like the sound the blowers make…and I’d take a blown engine over an NA any day. But if someone is trying to choose between the 2, I try to steer them towards the more efficient option based on facts.
There is a reason all sanctioned NHRA classes limit the turbo combos so heavily. If there were no limits, the turbo cars would wax the floor with the nitrous and centri blower guys. The F1C blowers are classed with the cast 76mm midframe turbos in Ultra 275… That’s a joke! I run a larger turbo on my street/strip car. They even had to ban billet wheel 76’s because the other cars still couldn’t keep up. Bring the F3-xyz centri blowers out… big frame turbos on like engines would still stomp them. It’s just a poor design by nature (when compared to a turbo) and will never be as fast, period.
Well... I believe you guys should mention some track times 60ft and mph for 1/8 and 1/4 times in this thread.
I can say as a N/A guy. I have run a few TURBO and S/C cars making 10-12lbs of boost and 650-700+ RWHP... and they can't break into the 6s in the 1/8 or 10s in the 1/4.
I know traction and 60ft have a lot to do with it. But some S/C and Turbo cars can be called Dyno Queens (peak power only). Just saying something to be said for a system that can actually make good track numbers over PEAK DYNO Numbers.
I can say as a N/A guy. I have run a few TURBO and S/C cars making 10-12lbs of boost and 650-700+ RWHP... and they can't break into the 6s in the 1/8 or 10s in the 1/4.
I know traction and 60ft have a lot to do with it. But some S/C and Turbo cars can be called Dyno Queens (peak power only). Just saying something to be said for a system that can actually make good track numbers over PEAK DYNO Numbers.
My turbo setup is in positive boost before I ever leave the line. I can make 15-30lbs on the trans brake fast and maintain that the entire run. So to say a like NA engine has any kind of advantage over that is ridiculous. Never been on a dyno, but I was running 5.7x’s and 8 second ¼’s with my first attempt at a turbo LS. A $220 JY SBE 5.3 with an OEM cam/heads on a $650 S475 turbo. Safe to say the guys you raced probably didn’t have their combos setup right. I had less in my whole car (turbo/trans/chassis fuel management… the whole deal) than my buddy just spent on his F1R blower kit alone. Also My home made turbo junk makes more power and runs faster times than his 40k worth of 434 cube monster cam F1R combo at 20lbs. Sure I’ll probably go through 3 engines before he goes through one… But I’ll still be money ahead by a land slide. Not to mention my turbo engine has perfect street manners with a baby cam and highway gearing. Not getting any kind of respectable times NA (or centri IMO) with low RPM, low compression, and highway gearing.
#504
I'll say that if I were diehard trying to keep AC, I would have gone procharger. Nothing against the Huron kit (I love at least looking at mine ) but I feel like a turbo fbody is already challenging enough to keep cool. Retaining ac and blocking airflow even more through the radiator doesn't seem like a good idea to me. The cooling is what sealed the deal for me on going with a truck manifold kit.
There are a lot of benefits I can see. I listed a bunch of them and I should have included ease of keeping the a/c on there, because that is a huge benefit to most people... It's a great option to have IMO I don't see how someone can say it's not..
#505
I don't know why if turbos are so superior in every way that I see NA, nitrous and centri blower cars at grudge race events all the time. I guess they all didn't get the memo. I mean these setups are the best of the best cars, builders and drivers, so why wouldn't every single grudge car at these high dollar events have a turbo?
#506
I don't know why if turbos are so superior in every way that I see NA, nitrous and centri blower cars at grudge race events all the time. I guess they all didn't get the memo. I mean these setups are the best of the best cars, builders and drivers, so why wouldn't every single grudge car at these high dollar events have a turbo?
#507
I don't know why if turbos are so superior in every way that I see NA, nitrous and centri blower cars at grudge race events all the time. I guess they all didn't get the memo. I mean these setups are the best of the best cars, builders and drivers, so why wouldn't every single grudge car at these high dollar events have a turbo?
#508
Comparing track times is irrelevant if the engine/chassis/weight/traction etc aren't equal.
My turbo setup is in positive boost before I ever leave the line. I can make 15-30lbs on the trans brake fast and maintain that the entire run. So to say a like NA engine has any kind of advantage over that is ridiculous. Never been on a dyno, but I was running 5.7x’s and 8 second ¼’s with my first attempt at a turbo LS. A $220 JY SBE 5.3 with an OEM cam/heads on a $650 S475 turbo. Safe to say the guys you raced probably didn’t have their combos setup right. I had less in my whole car (turbo/trans/chassis fuel management… the whole deal) than my buddy just spent on his F1R blower kit alone. Also My home made turbo junk makes more power and runs faster times than his 40k worth of 434 cube monster cam F1R combo at 20lbs. Sure I’ll probably go through 3 engines before he goes through one… But I’ll still be money ahead by a land slide. Not to mention my turbo engine has perfect street manners with a baby cam and highway gearing. Not getting any kind of respectable times NA (or centri IMO) with low RPM, low compression, and highway gearing.
I am just speaking from experience with running a few Turbo/SC (they say) 700 rwhp cars (supra turbo, Shelby 5.8 Stang, Hellcat). I know my car does NOT dyno that much... and I have never been to a dyno. I just have a C3 with a 418ci LSX motor with a Holley 4bbl. I can run high 10s NA and drive to the track on pump gas in traffic.
These cars trap really high typically high 120s to low 130s compared to my 122-125. I just find it funny when they talk a lot about the dyno numbers... (likely peak numbers) and the cars cant get out of the 11s. I agree... weight, setup and definitely traction play greatly into this. But if somebody is looking for real world performance... MAX power may get you beat over and over again by the 500hp Beater bomb! LOL
just wondering is the S/C vs the turbo guys can back up the dyno with times.
#509
My brother's '95 Formula LT1 (which he bought brand new) has never had the engine opened up, back in 2002 or 2003 he installed a ProCharger P-1SC on it at 9 psi. Other than the engine being internally stock, the rest of the car is set up for the dragstrip. It does still have the complete interior, along with a roll cage. It has run in the high 10's in the 1/4. You can bracket race this car, as it is extremely consistent run after run. http://shop.brutespeed.com/Brute-Spe...ed-Formula.htm
This past year my bother took the car out on old gas, and got on it and ventilated the block. A stroker LT1 engine is in the works. Bob
This past year my bother took the car out on old gas, and got on it and ventilated the block. A stroker LT1 engine is in the works. Bob
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PM's disabled, please e-mail me
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#510
Originally Posted by Forcefed86
Because there’s a lot more to going fast than having the best power adder. Chassis/suspension and above all Money. A 600+ cube mountain motor it going to have the advantage over a small cube motor no matter how efficient the power adder is. Like motor VS like motor the turbos will stomp the nitrous and centri setups, period. Which is why all the race classes out there have much greater restrictions placed on the turbo engines to help even the playing field.
#511
Originally Posted by Game ova
Many people simply refuse to progress, that is why. As forcefed86 brought out, turbo cars typically easily out power most blower setups. And speaking of grudge races, I'm not sure which ones you are talking about....but the ones that I watch are pretty much DOMINATED by turbo cars. Just one example being birdman, and there are many others besides him. But for whatever reason, there are die hard fans of the less efficient power adder....AKA supercharger. And for that reason, turbo cars will remain heavily sanctioned to keep the supercharged/nitrous crowd from crying too much.
#513
Ok it's not a turbo and it's not a centri but it beats both on bling if that counts for anything and it makes decent power, I can't wait to get it under the hood of my 1950 5 window truck!
#514
Originally Posted by gsteele
^^^ FYI. If he chooses not to answer, it is not because you are making unassailable arguments.
#515
Well... I believe you guys should mention some track times 60ft and mph for 1/8 and 1/4 times in this thread.
I can say as a N/A guy. I have run a few TURBO and S/C cars making 10-12lbs of boost and 650-700+ RWHP... and they can't break into the 6s in the 1/8 or 10s in the 1/4.
I know traction and 60ft have a lot to do with it. But some S/C and Turbo cars can be called Dyno Queens (peak power only). Just saying something to be said for a system that can actually make good track numbers over PEAK DYNO Numbers.
I can say as a N/A guy. I have run a few TURBO and S/C cars making 10-12lbs of boost and 650-700+ RWHP... and they can't break into the 6s in the 1/8 or 10s in the 1/4.
I know traction and 60ft have a lot to do with it. But some S/C and Turbo cars can be called Dyno Queens (peak power only). Just saying something to be said for a system that can actually make good track numbers over PEAK DYNO Numbers.
Drove my truck to the track, weight was 4550lbs, engine was a bored 5.3 with 706 heads and a mild cam. Used an out of the box truck D1sc kit with their 3 core a2a. Stock tensioner, stock crank pulley, out of the box 4" blower pulley, all 6-rib ****. Ran 10.90's at 126 mph. It was mid 1.50's in the 60 foot and 6.90's around 101 mph in the eighth.
#516
I'm a centri guy because that's all know. I did have an STS turbo in the early days and it sucked **** but that doesn't count. To go turbo to make 800+whp and keep the cold ac I have I would have to ditch my stock kmember, exhaust and what else? Believe me, I want to change to turbo because I get "bored" of the set-up, but if sitting in traffic in the heat with half *** working ac and overheating causes a pita, I'll pass. Is there a quality bolt-on turbo "kit" that would satisfy my needs? I'm looking but no luck. I have my F1A setup running pretty damn near perfect and I wouldn't F-it up for more headaches unless I was more serious. I'm just the average garage junkie, not looking to break records. The car I have is however fast enough for me and it works.
#518
To me, my truck was most impressive when it did this:
Drove my truck to the track, weight was 4550lbs, engine was a bored 5.3 with 706 heads and a mild cam. Used an out of the box truck D1sc kit with their 3 core a2a. Stock tensioner, stock crank pulley, out of the box 4" blower pulley, all 6-rib ****. Ran 10.90's at 126 mph. It was mid 1.50's in the 60 foot and 6.90's around 101 mph in the eighth.
Drove my truck to the track, weight was 4550lbs, engine was a bored 5.3 with 706 heads and a mild cam. Used an out of the box truck D1sc kit with their 3 core a2a. Stock tensioner, stock crank pulley, out of the box 4" blower pulley, all 6-rib ****. Ran 10.90's at 126 mph. It was mid 1.50's in the 60 foot and 6.90's around 101 mph in the eighth.
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PM's disabled, please e-mail me
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https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076
PM's disabled, please e-mail me
E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com
https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
#519
So why don't the big mountain cube motor guys use turbos 100% of the time? Fact is that nitrous, turbo, centri setups all can be made ridiculously fast, it just depends what you like to build. You're just more familiar with turbo and you like using them so that's what you choose. How about the grudge car that runs twin turbos and a centri unit both. Why would he do that if turbos are so fast by themselves. I see there's no backing down from you but there's no way you can state as a fact turbos are always better. It's still your opinion buddy. You make good points but if you were right every fast car out there would run turbos and it's not even close to the case. Looks like procharger should just close their doors because according to you they're obsolete lol. I go to plenty of events and with just a little bad weather the turbo setups get spanked by nitrous cars all day but I'm sure you'll come back with the turbos weren't set up right when these cars run mid 4's all day in no prep.
It’s not an opinion which power adder is more efficient, It is a fact. There is no argument there. If you don’t accept that you’re kidding yourself.
It’s proven in every OPEN major competition motor sport out there. Some are just hard headed, or may have more experience with another type of power adder. Like I said, it takes more than the best power adder to win a race. Because a blower car beat a turbo car, that doesn’t mean the blower was more efficient at making power. Way too many variables during a race.
With the NHRA pansies going to 1/8th mile, it’s more about traction management and less about power production anyway. You can only make so much power on “X” chassis and get it to the ground in the 1/8th. Since either power adder can do that, either can be competitive. The blower will have to work harder or have a higher output engine (more $) than the turbo car to make the same power though.
Which is my whole point. We are talking piddly amounts of power on street cars where most are looking to spend as little as possible to get the most gain. I say a remote mount $190 GT45 turbo kit will stomp your average P1SC kit and cost less... though I admit it is slightly more of a headache to install.
#520
To me, my truck was most impressive when it did this:
Drove my truck to the track, weight was 4550lbs, engine was a bored 5.3 with 706 heads and a mild cam. Used an out of the box truck D1sc kit with their 3 core a2a. Stock tensioner, stock crank pulley, out of the box 4" blower pulley, all 6-rib ****. Ran 10.90's at 126 mph. It was mid 1.50's in the 60 foot and 6.90's around 101 mph in the eighth.
Drove my truck to the track, weight was 4550lbs, engine was a bored 5.3 with 706 heads and a mild cam. Used an out of the box truck D1sc kit with their 3 core a2a. Stock tensioner, stock crank pulley, out of the box 4" blower pulley, all 6-rib ****. Ran 10.90's at 126 mph. It was mid 1.50's in the 60 foot and 6.90's around 101 mph in the eighth.