New forged motor question?
07-06-2017, 01:44 PM
#43
.
07-06-2017, 01:55 PM
#44
- Rings must seat
- Engine will shed a lot of metal shavings for a few thousand miles. So thats kind of breaking in the parts.
Seating the rings can only be seated in the first 4-5 miles. If its driven easy and all the cross hatches in the cylinders are gone and the rings did not seat, its too late.
As far as oil changes with a new engine: (the builder always said what to use for the first fill of oil, can't remember brand names but it was some kind of mineral spirits for the first start up and like 10 minutes at idle, but then dump that out before the dyno runs and put in oil)
I then did an oil change after my first dyno sessions with each engine I've had: (436ci stroker, 427ci stroker and my current 390ci)
Then I did an oil change at "about".....50 miles, 100 miles, 500 miles, 1,000 miles, then 1,500 miles, then at 2,000. Then I started my every 3,000 changes.
I had TONS of metal shavings on my oil fill plug at every change. And at every change for years after......which is normal BTW.......But those first 2,000 miles, thats a lot of metal shavings running around and splashing everywhere in the crankcase. So I tried to keep it clean as possible during that heavy shedding time......
Then, personally.....20w50 Castrol GTX conventional oil is all that any of my engines ever get. No synthetic oils for me......
.
Last edited by LS6427; 07-06-2017 at 02:09 PM.
07-06-2017, 02:19 PM
#45
Staging Lane
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There's two things that "break-in" with an engine.
- Rings must seat
- Engine will shed a lot of metal shavings for a few thousand miles. So thats kind of breaking in the parts.
Seating the rings can only be seated in the first 4-5 miles. If its driven easy and all the cross hatches in the cylinders are gone and the rings did not seat, its too late.
As far as oil changes with a new engine: (the builder always said what to use for the first fill of oil, can't remember brand names but it was some kind of mineral spirits for the first start up and like 10 minutes at idle, but then dump that out before the dyno runs and put in oil)
I then did an oil change after my first dyno sessions with each engine I've had: (436ci stroker, 427ci stroker and my current 390ci)
Then I did an oil change at "about".....50 miles, 100 miles, 500 miles, 1,000 miles, then 1,500 miles, then at 2,000. Then I started my every 3,000 changes.
I had TONS of metal shavings on my oil fill plug at every change. And at every change for years after......which is normal BTW.......But those first 2,000 miles, thats a lot of metal shavings running around and splashing everywhere in the crankcase. So I tried to keep it clean as possible during that heavy shedding time......
Then, personally.....20w50 Castrol GTX conventional oil is all that any of my engines ever get. No synthetic oils for me......
.
- Rings must seat
- Engine will shed a lot of metal shavings for a few thousand miles. So thats kind of breaking in the parts.
Seating the rings can only be seated in the first 4-5 miles. If its driven easy and all the cross hatches in the cylinders are gone and the rings did not seat, its too late.
As far as oil changes with a new engine: (the builder always said what to use for the first fill of oil, can't remember brand names but it was some kind of mineral spirits for the first start up and like 10 minutes at idle, but then dump that out before the dyno runs and put in oil)
I then did an oil change after my first dyno sessions with each engine I've had: (436ci stroker, 427ci stroker and my current 390ci)
Then I did an oil change at "about".....50 miles, 100 miles, 500 miles, 1,000 miles, then 1,500 miles, then at 2,000. Then I started my every 3,000 changes.
I had TONS of metal shavings on my oil fill plug at every change. And at every change for years after......which is normal BTW.......But those first 2,000 miles, thats a lot of metal shavings running around and splashing everywhere in the crankcase. So I tried to keep it clean as possible during that heavy shedding time......
Then, personally.....20w50 Castrol GTX conventional oil is all that any of my engines ever get. No synthetic oils for me......
.
07-06-2017, 02:42 PM
#46
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There's two things that "break-in" with an engine.
- Rings must seat
- Engine will shed a lot of metal shavings for a few thousand miles. So thats kind of breaking in the parts.
Seating the rings can only be seated in the first 4-5 miles. If its driven easy and all the cross hatches in the cylinders are gone and the rings did not seat, its too late.
As far as oil changes with a new engine: (the builder always said what to use for the first fill of oil, can't remember brand names but it was some kind of mineral spirits for the first start up and like 10 minutes at idle, but then dump that out before the dyno runs and put in oil)
I then did an oil change after my first dyno sessions with each engine I've had: (436ci stroker, 427ci stroker and my current 390ci)
Then I did an oil change at "about".....50 miles, 100 miles, 500 miles, 1,000 miles, then 1,500 miles, then at 2,000. Then I started my every 3,000 changes.
I had TONS of metal shavings on my oil fill plug at every change. And at every change for years after......which is normal BTW.......But those first 2,000 miles, thats a lot of metal shavings running around and splashing everywhere in the crankcase. So I tried to keep it clean as possible during that heavy shedding time......
Then, personally.....20w50 Castrol GTX conventional oil is all that any of my engines ever get. No synthetic oils for me......
.
- Rings must seat
- Engine will shed a lot of metal shavings for a few thousand miles. So thats kind of breaking in the parts.
Seating the rings can only be seated in the first 4-5 miles. If its driven easy and all the cross hatches in the cylinders are gone and the rings did not seat, its too late.
As far as oil changes with a new engine: (the builder always said what to use for the first fill of oil, can't remember brand names but it was some kind of mineral spirits for the first start up and like 10 minutes at idle, but then dump that out before the dyno runs and put in oil)
I then did an oil change after my first dyno sessions with each engine I've had: (436ci stroker, 427ci stroker and my current 390ci)
Then I did an oil change at "about".....50 miles, 100 miles, 500 miles, 1,000 miles, then 1,500 miles, then at 2,000. Then I started my every 3,000 changes.
I had TONS of metal shavings on my oil fill plug at every change. And at every change for years after......which is normal BTW.......But those first 2,000 miles, thats a lot of metal shavings running around and splashing everywhere in the crankcase. So I tried to keep it clean as possible during that heavy shedding time......
Then, personally.....20w50 Castrol GTX conventional oil is all that any of my engines ever get. No synthetic oils for me......
.
07-06-2017, 03:55 PM
#47
If you touch it, it basically turns to liquid on your finger. 436ci went 100,000 miles before I sold it and the guy who bought it sprayed the **** out of it for a year. 427ci went 173,000 and my current 390ci is only at about 10,000.
Nobody anywhere, on this planet has gotten that kind of mileage out of fully built stroker engines.....I've never heard of anyone getting close to that mileage.
My 427ci always showed a little bit of that powderized metal stuff on the drain plug at every oil change. Normal. Maybe because my engines were fully built and pretty badass. 500 RWHP engines 12 years ago was the ****.
My current 390ci is getting its turbo kit installed by a guy at BMR this August. Hoping for 1,250 RWHP. Gonna see how good AES builds engines.......
.
07-06-2017, 05:12 PM
#50
I'm not talking about chunks of metal....I'm talking about powderized metal shavings. Every engine sheds that when its new. Not pieces......
If you touch it, it basically turns to liquid on your finger. 436ci went 100,000 miles before I sold it and the guy who bought it sprayed the **** out of it for a year. 427ci went 173,000 and my current 390ci is only at about 10,000.
Nobody anywhere, on this planet has gotten that kind of mileage out of fully built stroker engines.....I've never heard of anyone getting close to that mileage.
My 427ci always showed a little bit of that powderized metal stuff on the drain plug at every oil change. Normal. Maybe because my engines were fully built and pretty badass. 500 RWHP engines 12 years ago was the ****.
My current 390ci is getting its turbo kit installed by a guy at BMR this August. Hoping for 1,250 RWHP. Gonna see how good AES builds engines.......
.
If you touch it, it basically turns to liquid on your finger. 436ci went 100,000 miles before I sold it and the guy who bought it sprayed the **** out of it for a year. 427ci went 173,000 and my current 390ci is only at about 10,000.
Nobody anywhere, on this planet has gotten that kind of mileage out of fully built stroker engines.....I've never heard of anyone getting close to that mileage.
My 427ci always showed a little bit of that powderized metal stuff on the drain plug at every oil change. Normal. Maybe because my engines were fully built and pretty badass. 500 RWHP engines 12 years ago was the ****.
My current 390ci is getting its turbo kit installed by a guy at BMR this August. Hoping for 1,250 RWHP. Gonna see how good AES builds engines.......
.
07-06-2017, 11:43 PM
#51
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I'm not talking about chunks of metal....I'm talking about powderized metal shavings. Every engine sheds that when its new. Not pieces......
If you touch it, it basically turns to liquid on your finger. 436ci went 100,000 miles before I sold it and the guy who bought it sprayed the **** out of it for a year. 427ci went 173,000 and my current 390ci is only at about 10,000.
Nobody anywhere, on this planet has gotten that kind of mileage out of fully built stroker engines.....I've never heard of anyone getting close to that mileage.
My 427ci always showed a little bit of that powderized metal stuff on the drain plug at every oil change. Normal. Maybe because my engines were fully built and pretty badass. 500 RWHP engines 12 years ago was the ****.
My current 390ci is getting its turbo kit installed by a guy at BMR this August. Hoping for 1,250 RWHP. Gonna see how good AES builds engines.......
.
If you touch it, it basically turns to liquid on your finger. 436ci went 100,000 miles before I sold it and the guy who bought it sprayed the **** out of it for a year. 427ci went 173,000 and my current 390ci is only at about 10,000.
Nobody anywhere, on this planet has gotten that kind of mileage out of fully built stroker engines.....I've never heard of anyone getting close to that mileage.
My 427ci always showed a little bit of that powderized metal stuff on the drain plug at every oil change. Normal. Maybe because my engines were fully built and pretty badass. 500 RWHP engines 12 years ago was the ****.
My current 390ci is getting its turbo kit installed by a guy at BMR this August. Hoping for 1,250 RWHP. Gonna see how good AES builds engines.......
.
07-07-2017, 12:09 AM
#52
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Well I did a compression check for my sanity tonight. All cylinders were 145 except For 3 & 4. They were around 144. I'm going to order the PCV fittings to convert my race can from Might Mouse. Hopefully that will contain some of the gasses/smoke. What do you guys suggest for brake in oil? The shaffers I have in the motor now is a synthetic blend. A couple people told me to drain it and run regular oil to break it in.
07-07-2017, 01:27 AM
#53
Cosign. I went through this last year, glitter oil. So much so that I didn't trust the motor anymore, pulled the motor down and every... single...bearing was perfect. Right afterwards, the turbo let go so I attributed the glitter to the turbo. But even after the turbo change, I STILL see what looks like glitter when I change the oil. Now....i don't even worry about it. As long as the oil pressure is solid and the motor stays quiet, I run it.
.
07-07-2017, 02:10 AM
#54
Well I did a compression check for my sanity tonight. All cylinders were 145 except For 3 & 4. They were around 144. I'm going to order the PCV fittings to convert my race can from Might Mouse. Hopefully that will contain some of the gasses/smoke. What do you guys suggest for brake in oil? The shaffers I have in the motor now is a synthetic blend. A couple people told me to drain it and run regular oil to break it in.
.
07-07-2017, 09:10 AM
#55
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Ring Seat Method Hi 70C10, my work is in the area of professional motor sports.
Many engines have a starting method, required, for the engine lease.
Typically before a start is allowed, the jacket water is brought up to temp as is the oil.
These things I too provide, jacket water and oil pan/can heaters.
The bench test of a new engine is treated the same and when first started it is run for ten seconds then STOPPED to cool.
This procedure is then stepped up twenty seconds/cooled, forty seconds/cooled with the run time doubled at each sequence.
The five minute time is then noted for safe ring temperature.
The reason : The high friction from cylinder wall/ring face contact can "over heat" the ring material causing a "soft" ring. (no radial tension)
Next, I use paper towels, not rags, for engine assemble cleaning.
I have worked out methods to reduce the metal particle drop by 90%.
I provide one extra oil filter with each new engine required to by fitted in a hours time of running BEFORE ANY WOT operation.
Last, worst case ring seating can be corrected by the use of Bon Ami cleaner as recommended by Cosworth.
They state the introduction should be through the spark plug hole.
This method has worked for me with customers who will "drive in" with a big puff of smoke out of the exhaust and a dead cylinder. (oil fouled plug)
The use of expensive oil for "brake-in" is not sane for my mind as it is soon dumped.
I use an EOS as do OEM's
Lance
Many engines have a starting method, required, for the engine lease.
Typically before a start is allowed, the jacket water is brought up to temp as is the oil.
These things I too provide, jacket water and oil pan/can heaters.
The bench test of a new engine is treated the same and when first started it is run for ten seconds then STOPPED to cool.
This procedure is then stepped up twenty seconds/cooled, forty seconds/cooled with the run time doubled at each sequence.
The five minute time is then noted for safe ring temperature.
The reason : The high friction from cylinder wall/ring face contact can "over heat" the ring material causing a "soft" ring. (no radial tension)
Next, I use paper towels, not rags, for engine assemble cleaning.
I have worked out methods to reduce the metal particle drop by 90%.
I provide one extra oil filter with each new engine required to by fitted in a hours time of running BEFORE ANY WOT operation.
Last, worst case ring seating can be corrected by the use of Bon Ami cleaner as recommended by Cosworth.
They state the introduction should be through the spark plug hole.
This method has worked for me with customers who will "drive in" with a big puff of smoke out of the exhaust and a dead cylinder. (oil fouled plug)
The use of expensive oil for "brake-in" is not sane for my mind as it is soon dumped.
I use an EOS as do OEM's
Lance
07-07-2017, 07:22 PM
#56
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Hi 70C10, my work is in the area of professional motor sports.
Many engines have a starting method, required, for the engine lease.
Typically before a start is allowed, the jacket water is brought up to temp as is the oil.
These things I too provide, jacket water and oil pan/can heaters.
The bench test of a new engine is treated the same and when first started it is run for ten seconds then STOPPED to cool.
This procedure is then stepped up twenty seconds/cooled, forty seconds/cooled with the run time doubled at each sequence.
The five minute time is then noted for safe ring temperature.
The reason : The high friction from cylinder wall/ring face contact can "over heat" the ring material causing a "soft" ring. (no radial tension)
Next, I use paper towels, not rags, for engine assemble cleaning.
I have worked out methods to reduce the metal particle drop by 90%.
I provide one extra oil filter with each new engine required to by fitted in a hours time of running BEFORE ANY WOT operation.
Last, worst case ring seating can be corrected by the use of Bon Ami cleaner as recommended by Cosworth.
They state the introduction should be through the spark plug hole.
This method has worked for me with customers who will "drive in" with a big puff of smoke out of the exhaust and a dead cylinder. (oil fouled plug)
The use of expensive oil for "brake-in" is not sane for my mind as it is soon dumped.
I use an EOS as do OEM's
Lance
Many engines have a starting method, required, for the engine lease.
Typically before a start is allowed, the jacket water is brought up to temp as is the oil.
These things I too provide, jacket water and oil pan/can heaters.
The bench test of a new engine is treated the same and when first started it is run for ten seconds then STOPPED to cool.
This procedure is then stepped up twenty seconds/cooled, forty seconds/cooled with the run time doubled at each sequence.
The five minute time is then noted for safe ring temperature.
The reason : The high friction from cylinder wall/ring face contact can "over heat" the ring material causing a "soft" ring. (no radial tension)
Next, I use paper towels, not rags, for engine assemble cleaning.
I have worked out methods to reduce the metal particle drop by 90%.
I provide one extra oil filter with each new engine required to by fitted in a hours time of running BEFORE ANY WOT operation.
Last, worst case ring seating can be corrected by the use of Bon Ami cleaner as recommended by Cosworth.
They state the introduction should be through the spark plug hole.
This method has worked for me with customers who will "drive in" with a big puff of smoke out of the exhaust and a dead cylinder. (oil fouled plug)
The use of expensive oil for "brake-in" is not sane for my mind as it is soon dumped.
I use an EOS as do OEM's
Lance
07-08-2017, 01:07 AM
#57
TECH Apprentice
pantera, so you put abrasives into the cylinder? how much? does that stuff contain some kind of organic abrasives that burn off?
Last edited by Dian; 07-08-2017 at 01:43 AM.