wesmigletz

iTrader: (6)

I have a stock truck 6.0 L76, backed by a Chevy MY6/A833 manual 4 spd, that I would like to install in my 67 Nova with a Holley Terminator X. I would like to run the engine completely stock for now if possible.

If this is not possible, what all do I need to change on the engine... cam, lifters... what else? Ideally, I'd like to fire the engine on my run stand before installing in the car.

Thank you in advance.

ryeguy2006a

iTrader: (27)

Terminator X just released the Gen5 kits that allow for VVT control, but I can't seem to find one for Gen4 stuff. I didn't look hard, but maybe you can find a kit or call Holley directly. But here's some food for thought, Since the cheapest Holley controller I found was $2k, and the base Terminator X is $1k, you might be better off using the difference to delete VVT and get a nice cam upgrade in the process. Be careful though, opening up an LS motor gets expensive really fast.

wesmigletz

iTrader: (6)

Thank you for the response. I'm wanting to confirm the health of the engine before going anyfurther with it, and want to avoid the expense of cam, lifters, springs, timing chain, oil pump, head bolts, gaskets, etc. I also don't want a lopey cam, so I probably wouldn't be going any bigger than a Summit Stage 1 truck if I did have to do a cam.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

The Terminator X does not have VVT sport for Gen 4 engines, only gen 5.

Andrew

wesmigletz

iTrader: (6)

Thank you Andrew. I was able to get through the tech line. You and ryeguy are both correct. Holley recommended 550-905 for a manual TB and 550-931 for DBW.

Do you know if it is possible to run a throttle cable from the throttle pivot arm at the firewall to a mechanical TB on a GEN 4 truck intake? If so, any recommendations for a throttle cable?

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

If you have a Gen 4 engine with a Gen 4 intake and a stock 4 bolt TB, I highly recommend the TerminatorX Max with the DBW. There are many benefits, not the least which is using good OEM throttle bodies instead of the aftermarket sewer pipes.

Andrew

wesmigletz

iTrader: (6)

Thank you Andrew, I appreciate your input.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

You're welcome. If I can be of service with the tuning or other questions, please let me know.

Andrew

wesmigletz

iTrader: (6)

Will do Andrew, thanks again.

Wes Migletz

rwhite692

Bringing this old thread back from the dead. Have searched everywhere and haven't found a clear answer.

I have a 2015 L96 in my '72 Blazer rock crawler, currently running on a PSI Conversion harness and E38 and DBW. The L96 is dead stock. This engine has VVT (But has no DOD or AFM).

I have no need or plans to change out the cam, or to add any power adders.

I simply want to ditch the PSI harness / E38 and run a Holley Terminator X-Max EFI because of the relative ease of tuning.

I am running into confusion regarding what I need (or do not need) to do, regarding VVT.

A call with Holley EFI tech support was not very confidence-inspiring. The person I spoke with really didn't seem to understand the question at all, and then suddenly blurted out "Oh Yeah! VVT! You need to do a VVT Delete!"

I really don't want to have to do a VVT delete because this also means doing a cam swap, which I have no need for, and which would be a huge PITA with the engine in the truck.

It is my understanding that VVT is in, and stays in, the fully advanced state, unless it receives a signal from the ECU to start retarding the cam (at low load/cruise etc).

SO what is the actual result of just installing the Terminator X, and just ignoring the VVT altogether? I really don't care at all about the efficiency gains that result from retarding the cam, at low load/cruise.

Thanks,
Rob

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

Hi Rob,

If the cam stays in the fully advanced position unless the ECU commands something else, and if you're OK with that, then you can use a Terminator X system.

If I can help with the tuning, please let me know.

Andrew

gametech

iTrader: (1)

I am entirely confused about why you want to throw a ton of time and money into "ease of tuning" for a bone stock motor that is going to stay stock. I must be missing something.

rwhite692

Gametech, I have no one local to me that can tune the OEM / E38, but DO have local access to a pro tuner w/chassis dyno who mainly works with Holley EFI. Have you ever been so frustrated with a piece of aftermarket equipment and support, that you are just effing "done" with it? That's been my experience with PSI and the GM E38, in this application... I've never been able to get the tune "right" on the E38. Just not happy with it despite shipping off the ECU for custom tuning a couple of times now. Also (and probably the most frustrating) is we have had the ECU suddenly stop responding to all DBW on two occasions, with no codes thrown, nothing....which despite exhaustive troubleshooting of the harness, etc and parts swapping we have never been able to resolve. Power cycle the ignition and everything is fine.... for either another 5 months, or for another 5 minutes. I am being honest when I say I'm just mentally worn out with this setup.

rwhite692

Hi Andrew, Thank you....

That "If" is just the thing....I'd like to know for sure....I can't imagine that I am the first person to have this question for this situation/application come up.

Something else interesting is that it looks like Holley has VVT operational now for TerminatorX and it is theoretically possible to activate and use it, on a Gen4 LS

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

In all the tunes that I have done, nobody cared about VVT and most people do a cam swap. When I did the LS swap on my GTO in 2008 I started with a L92 and I removed the truck cam and used the LS7 cam, which worked great. There are a lot of small cam options that would work in your application, provided you want to do the cam and lifter swap.

Andrew

rwhite692

Thanks Andrew. Yeah, I just really don't have the inclination to do a cam swap on this engine right now. It would be a major PITA to do, in the truck. I'm inclined to just leave the VVT disconnected and install/run the Terminator X.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

​​​​​​I just don't know enough about the VVT mechanism to tell you for sure what would happen. I "assume" that without a signal it reverts to a "straight up" position...

Andrew

NicD

iTrader: (7)

This is correct, only when a signal is applied to the VVT solenoid does it roll the cam back via oil pressure.

The VVT solenoid uses a 12V 150Hz pulse width from the typical 10% to 90% and I'm pretty sure that at 50% duty cycle it feeds both advance/retard cavities evenly, so less duty cycle is going to keep it advanced and more duty cycle is going to retard it. Without a closed loop way to monitor the position however it would never adjust automatically to target a particular angle so unless they add that control to the software for the Gen4s it's not going to be very accurate. However I would bet with enough trial and error you could dial it in on a dyno by using an advanced table in the Holley. Could even setup an engine oil temp compensation table for the solenoid as well since it needs more pressure as temps increase. Actually the more I think of it you could probably use another input as a position resource to at least be able to monitor it, but then you have to do some trial and error to make sure you are looking at the correct thing.

rwhite692

NicD, thank you very much for this. It explains why Holley has no recommendation / is essentially saying nothing, with regard to the potential of using the VVT functionality in their tuning software, on a Gen4.

What is puzzling me though, is them saying that I "need" to do a VVT delete on the motor, in order to run it w/TerminatorX.

Is there any situation / RPM range where the cam timing can behave erratically without the VVT solenoid being activated? I'm trying to understand Holley's position on this.

As I mentioned, having to do the VVT delete would kinda suck, since doing so dictates a cam swap as well, which I really don't want to do, at least right now.

Again thank you, this helps a lot.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Well from what I've seen Holley tech support isn't like other major ECM brands like Haltech or Motec, they don't really understand the system at a high level and are usually reading off of a troubleshooting chart. They aren't going to say something that could potentially hurt a customers engine either, and they don't know what they don't know.

That being said, why not just enable it and select the Gen V LTx engine type and wire in the VVT solenoid? I'm pretty sure the solenoid and home positions are still the same between the Gen4 stuff and the LTx Gen5 stuff and I don't see how it would know any different if it really is the same.

Either way, you don't have to delete the VVT system as it would just sit at it's fully advanced state, and all that is going to do is neuter your top end since it can't roll back.