sewerpickle

iTrader: (3)

Looking for enough fuel pump to run 500 fwhp on e85. 5.3, vortech s trim, deka 80's. I really don't want to get into trying to PWM a pump. Ideas? I'm using holley terminator, and this is just a street car, lots and lots of driving.

TrendSetter

I made about 530 to the hubs with a hellcat 525 with no check valve.
my setup has the pump in about the worst possible config. Its about 25’ of all -6an since I’m using the stock tank in a station wagon.
plus I’m pretty sure it was making a lot more at the crank since it only made 598 at 19 psi and similar combos are making 1-200hp more with manual trans instead of loose th400 but your mileage may vary.
for just 500whp it’s plenty of pump and used in oem applications.

TrendSetter

Oh I was on 44% ethanol for those numbers

sewerpickle

iTrader: (3)

I believe when the hellcat pump is used in OEM applications, it is PWM. I'm just worried about heat and pump longevity if it's not PWM.

TrendSetter

im pwming mine because i can (nexus r5) but i dont think it would be a big deal if it wasnt

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

FWIW I ran a single AEM400 and 80’s and made 560/600 whp on a -8 feed. If 500 is all you want. A single AEM400 will do it. Just be sure to isolate the the pump with a rubber mount and use rubber isolators. Otherwise, they can be pretty noisy. Also be sure the pump i getting full voltage to redline. A lot of the factory alternators w stock pulleys ratios cut out around 6k. The pump needs 13v+ to flow well.

Then you can always add a second pump down the road if you want.

sewerpickle

iTrader: (3)

I was planning on using an in tank pump, I'll see if AEM makes an in tank 400.

TrendSetter

i think you can run just about any fuel pump submerged in fuel if you want to. fuel has a very very high dielectric strength so theres nothing special about an 'in-tank' pump that im aware of except maybe a lack of mounts.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Yea the AEM's can be submerged. Just a pain to change them out. Summit or many others sell the "sock" to drop it in the tank. They def run a little cooler that way!

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...waAoMLEALw_wcB

sewerpickle

iTrader: (3)

That AEM pump looks like a good fit. I'm used to race orientated builds so the daily driver build just seems more difficult. I'm thinking a lot more in terms of longevity and noise reduction, all along with making it work.

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

It's pwm in a hellcat.

wlink14

Ive been running a hellcat pump full blast for 3 years now, probably 6000 miles. No problems at all.
Currently at 12psi boost with my 6.0L 76% ethanol and it does great.

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

Do you ever sit in traffic or drive the car for over an hour at a time? When I had a 340 as my primary, I drove the car a lot. Was a daily driver on and off. After driving for an hour, the fuel would be hot, the fuel pump would be hot and it would lean out on wot. There’s a reason that the larger pumps are pwm from the factory. They will live a short life. 6000 miles isn’t squat. Sure it’ll last in the short term. Long term, no.

I ended up putting a smaller primary pump for driving around and a 525 hellcat pump as my secondary that kicks on at 1psi. It does much better now.

wlink14

Yes, the car gets driven all over the place. Been on several 3 hours trips with it. I don't catch a lot of heavy traffic.
I do understand why OEMs PWM them, but I personally have not had any issues.
I feel like you and I have discussed this before lol.
I did have a problem when in very slow traffic on a hot day I would vapor lock. This was because my fuel lines were too close(within 5 inches, sometime closer) to my exhaust for like 5 feet. Combine that with hot pavement, soaring underhood temps of third gens and fuel was boiling. Moved fuel lines and no more problems. I do not think the pump had anything to do with this.
I would rather have a setup like you have with a small pump for cruising a big boy that comes on with boost or throttle. But I have a third gen and stuffing 2 pumps into the small tank opening is hard, so I went the lazy route and just plopped the 525 in place of the factory one.

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

gotcha. I guess if you aren’t having issues, then leave it be. But if you do, maybe look into a pwm controller.

The BallSS

iTrader: (9)

I had been told that the Hellcat PWM controls the pump because it uses a returnless style fuel system, so they need to turn the pump down to cut down on heat.
If used in a properly sized return style system, I've heard the 525 can be run constant duty because the return style system imparts less heat on the pump.
Not sure how true this is but it does make sense.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

I'm running dual Hellcat pumps(2nd pump on a Hobbs), return style system on E85 for two years with no problems.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Yes. every OEM is controlling their pumps via PWM now a days because they are all returnless fuel systems and it cuts down on fuel heating with causes more emissions and other issues. That being said the 525 puts a LOT of heat into the fuel system if run at constant duty with a return style fuel system, and at least here in AZ where temps can hit 110+ routinely during the summer it will cause problems if driven for extended periods of time. Your location may vary and you might not have any problems if fuel lines, etc are all kept away from high heat. For this reason I run a single 450 as my main pump and twin 525s that kick on under load when necessary and that keeps temps more in check.

sewerpickle

iTrader: (3)

At my power level I believe I can run a 400 or 450 and be just fine. I planned my fuel system for a -8 feed, -6 return.