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Camper 454?s
Camper 454?s So my dad has recently decided to keep his 69 Camaro. We put a Camper 454 in it, Mods; thumper cam, Tourqer 2 intake, oval port heads, and a 750 holly carb. Runs real good after fixing the fuel line problem. I have a couple of questions tho. the cam makes power in the mid to high range and he plans on getting rid of the intake to get a better one. He said that the motor comes with forged internals as well. 1st question is What heads should we go with? 2nd What intake would be a good intake? Now i do not have the specs on the cam but he did get it at CompCams and it is one of there thumper cams. Like i said he has oval port heads on it right now and he is going to try and get at least another 100 to 200 more hp out of it. Thank you for your input.
no not just with heads the intake as well. Also if higher compression you make more power right? the trq numbers we really aint worried about bc well it has plenty of trq obviously.
he is basically going to rebuild the top end and wants to try and get up to 200 more hp i tried to tell him we need to take it out again and get a bigger cam bore it out possibly a stroker kit with all new forged internals and new carb but he loves budget builds.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 314
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From: Land of the Mormon's although I'm not one of them
Yea, you're not going to get anywhere near that improvement with a top end change on a BBC.
You're looking at opening up the bottom, swapping out pistons, rings, and bearings while you're in there; then a good set of ported aftermarket aluminum heads (any name brand CNC ported head should do it) and matching cam. The factory compression was miserable on BBCs especially the truck ones (8.5:1 roughly on most); and a simple head swap isn't going to help this much; thus the piston swap.
I don't know what you're target is; but I made ~520hp FWHP (93 octane) on a 9:1 compression budget BBC build back in the late 90s; cost me $4500 with the core motor; and most of that cost was the Performer RPM Rect'l port heads.
Side note - oval port BBC heads suck; Rect'l port can and normally will make more power.
You're looking at opening up the bottom, swapping out pistons, rings, and bearings while you're in there; then a good set of ported aftermarket aluminum heads (any name brand CNC ported head should do it) and matching cam. The factory compression was miserable on BBCs especially the truck ones (8.5:1 roughly on most); and a simple head swap isn't going to help this much; thus the piston swap.
I don't know what you're target is; but I made ~520hp FWHP (93 octane) on a 9:1 compression budget BBC build back in the late 90s; cost me $4500 with the core motor; and most of that cost was the Performer RPM Rect'l port heads.
Side note - oval port BBC heads suck; Rect'l port can and normally will make more power.
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Yea, you're not going to get anywhere near that improvement with a top end change on a BBC.
You're looking at opening up the bottom, swapping out pistons, rings, and bearings while you're in there; then a good set of ported aftermarket aluminum heads (any name brand CNC ported head should do it) and matching cam. The factory compression was miserable on BBCs especially the truck ones (8.5:1 roughly on most); and a simple head swap isn't going to help this much; thus the piston swap.
I don't know what you're target is; but I made ~520hp FWHP (93 octane) on a 9:1 compression budget BBC build back in the late 90s; cost me $4500 with the core motor; and most of that cost was the Performer RPM Rect'l port heads.
Side note - oval port BBC heads suck; Rect'l port can and normally will make more power.
You're looking at opening up the bottom, swapping out pistons, rings, and bearings while you're in there; then a good set of ported aftermarket aluminum heads (any name brand CNC ported head should do it) and matching cam. The factory compression was miserable on BBCs especially the truck ones (8.5:1 roughly on most); and a simple head swap isn't going to help this much; thus the piston swap.
I don't know what you're target is; but I made ~520hp FWHP (93 octane) on a 9:1 compression budget BBC build back in the late 90s; cost me $4500 with the core motor; and most of that cost was the Performer RPM Rect'l port heads.
Side note - oval port BBC heads suck; Rect'l port can and normally will make more power.
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Verdad Gallardo lol he is into big blocks yes SBC can make the same power as he is wanting but honestly itll drive easier and be less stressful on the BBC. Plus the BBC will always make more power than a SBC.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34,631
Likes: 2,557
From: Schiller Park, ILL Member: #317
This is like a canned joke around here. I know it's LS1Tech, but some people seem to forget how much power/torque an NA BBC can make.
Anyway, back on track.
Head swap is definitely in order. Piston swap may not be needed for desireable compression depending on what pistons are currently in the engine (you didn't mention this detail) and what combustion chamber size you select for the heads. The Thumper cams aren't usually the best choice unless he's one of those guys that just wants to sound like he's got something. There are many excellent cam choices depending on desired rpm range and available hood clearance for various intakes.
If you DO have to open it up for some reason, then I'd say to consider doing a stroker. ~496ci with great heads and a well matched cam, with good but still pump gas friendly compression, is going to make a very fun setup. No need to go through all the hassle of an LSx swap unless he just likes trendy new tech (which doesn't seem to be the case here). The BBC can more than attain his goals.
Anyway, back on track.
Head swap is definitely in order. Piston swap may not be needed for desireable compression depending on what pistons are currently in the engine (you didn't mention this detail) and what combustion chamber size you select for the heads. The Thumper cams aren't usually the best choice unless he's one of those guys that just wants to sound like he's got something. There are many excellent cam choices depending on desired rpm range and available hood clearance for various intakes.
If you DO have to open it up for some reason, then I'd say to consider doing a stroker. ~496ci with great heads and a well matched cam, with good but still pump gas friendly compression, is going to make a very fun setup. No need to go through all the hassle of an LSx swap unless he just likes trendy new tech (which doesn't seem to be the case here). The BBC can more than attain his goals.
You need to do some research on what you have now. Look up the heads you have to see what size combustion chamber, intake & exhaust volume, valve size they have.
Once you know all that you can better judge what gains you might see changing the heads. If you have low compression pistons you might not be able to gain much.
The key is to do the research on what you have before you start making plans.
Good luck
Once you know all that you can better judge what gains you might see changing the heads. If you have low compression pistons you might not be able to gain much.
The key is to do the research on what you have before you start making plans.
Good luck
thanks everyone the pistons are stock for the camper motor so its more than likely a low compression pistons. he is going to turn it into a ratrod and was honestly trying to get a little more power all he wants to do is change the heads, intake and carb. I know he wont get much hp gains from this but im still tryn to get him to build it from the bottom up. The car as it sits right now will just roast the tires off with ease he will be getting a 12 bolt and a 4:11 posi as well and a built th400 if he listens to my ideas (mainly from you guys and gals) then it will be worth putting up pics and a video if not then I wont.
Everything said, you have a great block to use. Some forged pistons and rods to eliminate worry of it falling apart would be my personal issue to deal with in your situation. ID the heads, if they are the small peanut ports they gotta go. RVs and trucks usually had them. Some large oval ports with some port work go a long way for a street car. Have a cam guru like Martin at tick see if he can come up with a off shelf grind somewhere just to make it hit the desired mark. Match with a intake that will fit your rpm needs and intended use. Easy 550 hp without spinning much rpm, but if you wanna get crazy with rectangle ports and spin 7000 rpm, 650-700 hp is easy.
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 277
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From: SC
I reckon the "Big Block & Small Block Chevy Specific" forum was put in so people with engines would have somewhere to go to be told "Put an LS in it." Ha ha.
I have a friend who had Mark Jones aka VortecPro (google it) build him a 496 for his '67 Camaro. VortecPro does a street 496 with OEM heads that he works over and it makes 650hp with only a 236 cam and 9.7 compression. My friend had him build him one with that short block BUT with AFR-315 heads and a different carb than what he typically uses (had to practically beg I think) and with no other changes other than using race gas and timing still in the low 30's for a fun run it made 720hp.....and that was versus worked on heads not stock ones so yes there's some power to be had in the top end for someone that knows what they're doing (not implying me). Only problem he's run into now is that he's not going to be able to use his stock SS hood due to the carb height.
BTW, those Thumpr cams blow a lot of low end power out the tailpipe. They have a huge amount of excess exhaust duration and a lot of overlap for a cool sound. Not great when coupled with low compression.
I have a friend who had Mark Jones aka VortecPro (google it) build him a 496 for his '67 Camaro. VortecPro does a street 496 with OEM heads that he works over and it makes 650hp with only a 236 cam and 9.7 compression. My friend had him build him one with that short block BUT with AFR-315 heads and a different carb than what he typically uses (had to practically beg I think) and with no other changes other than using race gas and timing still in the low 30's for a fun run it made 720hp.....and that was versus worked on heads not stock ones so yes there's some power to be had in the top end for someone that knows what they're doing (not implying me). Only problem he's run into now is that he's not going to be able to use his stock SS hood due to the carb height.
BTW, those Thumpr cams blow a lot of low end power out the tailpipe. They have a huge amount of excess exhaust duration and a lot of overlap for a cool sound. Not great when coupled with low compression.
Last edited by SSellers; Sep 22, 2013 at 01:22 PM.
I reckon the "Big Block & Small Block Chevy Specific" forum was put in so people with engines would have somewhere to go to be told "Put an LS in it." Ha ha.
I have a friend who had Mark Jones aka VortecPro (google it) build him a 496 for his '67 Camaro. VortecPro does a street 496 with OEM heads that he works over and it makes 650hp with only a 236 cam and 9.7 compression. My friend had him build him one with that short block BUT with AFR-315 heads and a different carb than what he typically uses (had to practically beg I think) and with no other changes other than using race gas and timing still in the low 30's for a fun run it made 720hp.....and that was versus worked on heads not stock ones so yes there's some power to be had in the top end for someone that knows what they're doing (not implying me). Only problem he's run into now is that he's not going to be able to use his stock SS hood due to the carb height.
BTW, those Thumpr cams blow a lot of low end power out the tailpipe. They have a huge amount of excess exhaust duration and a lot of overlap for a cool sound. Not great when coupled with low compression.
I have a friend who had Mark Jones aka VortecPro (google it) build him a 496 for his '67 Camaro. VortecPro does a street 496 with OEM heads that he works over and it makes 650hp with only a 236 cam and 9.7 compression. My friend had him build him one with that short block BUT with AFR-315 heads and a different carb than what he typically uses (had to practically beg I think) and with no other changes other than using race gas and timing still in the low 30's for a fun run it made 720hp.....and that was versus worked on heads not stock ones so yes there's some power to be had in the top end for someone that knows what they're doing (not implying me). Only problem he's run into now is that he's not going to be able to use his stock SS hood due to the carb height.
BTW, those Thumpr cams blow a lot of low end power out the tailpipe. They have a huge amount of excess exhaust duration and a lot of overlap for a cool sound. Not great when coupled with low compression.
