Quickin

PRAY HRD,

Do you know what those DART 18* heads flow?

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

i said they were great to deal with! the Dart 18's when ported are supposed to flow about 370-380cfm. they are extremely efficient and are so close to the sb2.2 NASCAR heads that i don't think there's really a reason to spend the extra $$$ on anything else unless it's a max effort setup. mine are the raised port heads that are like $3500. i think i heard that there was some other Dart 18* heads, but i'm not positive. if opened up, they'll take 2.20I/1.625E valves! i'm no expert on engine building or anything, but these heads are f*in killer. they are the best inline valve heads available period.

Quickin

Are they better than the LS7 head? I know ones a DART head and one is an LSx head, just curious.

So did I misunderstand someone when I was told that there are heads for a small block DART engine that flow 440cfm? Maybe they were talking BBC heads.

Yeah, after getting their e-mail, which was pretty lengthy and informative, I'm seriously considering a BB DART that they advertise that makes 1,000 hp on pump gas. They said EFI is no probelm. And a 200-300 shot is no problem.
They also said in the e-mail that I would need a turbo or SC'er if I went SBC DART, but it would be silly powerful.

Imagine 1,000 fwhp and a progressively controlled 250 shot. It would be sick in the 1/4 mile and from a roll. I just love the raw power of N/A, thats why I'd rather go that way with spray.

We'll see soon enough what I'll do Just takes cash, right?


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PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

i WAS going to do a twin turbo setup, but i just decided to scrap the project Friday due to money issues. turbo's will always be there, so when i get the finances going, i may proceed with it then. for now, i'm going to be posting up my turbo's and 321 stainless to be able to get the running finally. the little turbo's i was going to use would have spooled up extremely fast and made 1200 fwhp on 93 octane! it would have also made 1000 fwtq! a guy my chassis/car builder knows has already done it and this was to be a copycat setup for the most part. you should check out his site, it's pretty bad ***. www.montygwilliams.com he sold the car a while ago, but just purchased another vette to start over with. that whole setup was built by Fast Times too and all claims were varified....1200hp/1000fwtq, on 93 oct., and max power was made by 6500rpm!!!! it was a truly unbelievable street car. as it turns out, the car was bought by a guy in Hawaii and he sent it to Behind Bars Race Cars, local to me, and he modified the intake, tubbed it, 4 linked it, caged it, and put in twin 70mm turbo's and the car was last reported running 7.30's in the 170+ mph range using all the same components that were in the motor already. Fast Times also does work for Don Walsh(?) if i remember right. one of the Pro 5.0 guys. lots of wins and 6 second times. they do some great work for such a small shop, but you get the person touch because of it. let me know what you decide to do, should be badass either way. all it takes is money.........LOT'S of $$$$$.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

quickin, is there a website on that BB DART?

Quickin

Here's an article on one that someone built:
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0206_1000/index.html

This is Fast Times Motorworks site with the advertised 1,000 hp pump gas BBC:
http://www.fasttimesmotorworks.com/

Quickin

So did Fast Times just do his machining and he assembled everything himself?

I guess to go twin turbo a small block is all thats needed.

I was talking with Gayle Banks about their 1,600 fwhp TT 427 DART (small block). Thats the kind of power I want, like 1,500 RWHP. Full time race gas is fine with me.

I suppose FTM can build a small block LSx engine (WarHawk block) to make 1,500 RWHP too.


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PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

yea, from what i understand they did everything but assemble it. Monty's pretty good at that stuff though, he just didn't have the equipment a shop would have to prep everything. that motor is making that 1600hp and more on race fuel now with running 7.30's in the 1/4 mile! and i think i misquoted the mph. i think it's in the 180's, not 170's. fast either way. i'm sure there are plenty of places that could build a motor the right way, i just like being able to talk to my builder and having him know me on a first name basis, that's why i like Fast Times.

whiteghost

iTrader: (2)

back on topic, i remember reading i carcraft that when they tested the 572/620 it made over 700bhp and the 572/720 made over 800bhp (they also ran the higher compression motor on pump gas and still made great power). GM is conservative with their ratings so even the stingiest dyno will back up their ratings.

Quickin

The show I saw did their own engine dyno test on the show and it was right at 620 fwhp, I think it was 628 or something, they used their own headers, so they're very close to the 620 thats advertised. That would be crazy to under rate those engines by 80 FWHP.


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OutlawZ

iTrader: (4)

Quickin, if you are thinking about a BBC in a 4th gen you can check out Brady's site...

www.teamprickracing.com

Alot of good info on there not only about a 540BBC in a 4th gen but also his single turbo SBC monster that he built and ran 8's with.... But keep in mind that you don't necessarily need a BBC to make 1500hp if that's your goal... Realistically an easier (well not easier) but another way to do it is with either a twin turbo or single turbo smallblock. The packaging of getting the motor in the car will be easier but the custom work of all the piping is going to be pricey believe me.... But wedging a BBC in there is no small feat either. One of my best friends has a twin turbo Buick GN with a small block. Here's a pic...



Makes ALL of 1500 hp and he can drive it on the street.... It's all about which direction you want to go. all it takes is the money and the drive/time...

Oh also someone made a comment about "those heads on a BBC flow way more than our heads".... That is true HOWEVER you are comparing OUR air requirements with the air requirements of a 572BBC. Those heads that come on those 572 crate motors flow ALOT of air but nowhere near what a set of fully ported AFR BBC race heads would flow.... If you put some AFR's or Dart heads on there, a bigger carb, roller valvetrain and a fat solid roller cam that 572 would crank out power and torque like it was going out of style.... Easily would surpass 800-900hp..... If your heads were providing your engine with 90% of it's required air and it made X horsepower, and a 572 BBC was getting 90% of it's required air it would make X plus horsepower with all things being equal.... cause the 572 cubic inches is always gonna make more power than lesser cubic inches if everything else is equal..... WHEW!!! I'm tired....

char

like some one said that motor is built with off teh shelf gm parts not brodix cnc heads or comp cams xtream cams.... you tell me if you can take your stock 348 cubic inche motor strap it to a dyno and run it 24 hours long producing the steady 620 horse that the 572 is packing... i would imagine a hugh messs. the motor is a in one word awesome. not to mention it produces torque at rpm numbers low enough to count on one hand its a impressive mill. just my .2

Quickin

The thought of having approximately 850 RWHP on pump gas with a normally aspirated engine puts chills down my spine. Fast Times Motorworks builds them. They also told me they could certainly get the BBC in my car.

But 850 RWHP just isn't enough for the type of runs I like, which is from a roll. There's alot of 1,000+ RWHP cars running around here. I'm sure that same 850 RWHP engine and a 200-300 progressive shot would beat almost anything on the road however. It seems a single turbo on a SBC is the best way to go for the big power, like 1,300+ RWHP.

Monty built a pretty awesome TT Dart engine, Fast Times Motorworks did all the machining of the engine, I think its 1,600 hp now. He's building a new twin-turbo LSx based engine using the Warhawk block that should make 1,500 RWHP.

I'll be talking to FTM this week, we'll see what they come up with.

As far as the custom piping needed for a turbo set-up, I was thinking just use the Hi-Flo single turbo kit ($4,700) and use an appropriate turbo for the power I want. The piping job is done already. Unless the turbo needed won't fit where the battery goes.


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Fogle07

iTrader: (5)

cam in the 572 is 254/264 .632/.632 not sure on the LSA
the 720hp version has 266/274 .714/.714 cam in it.

1fastWS6

iTrader: (3)

interesting, thats pretty small for a 572 race engine. my 496" BBC has a 285/294 .800/.765 cam in it.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

Quickin, how much is the engine that'll do 850 HP on pump gas from Fast Times?

Quickin

Its about 850 RWHP too. 1,000 FWHP. I just approximated it with 15% drivetrain loss.

I'm gonna find out everything tomorrow on my BBC build and install project. Most likely if I go this BBC route I'll go for much more power on full-time race gas and better heads. I'll be talking to them tomorrow on the phone, also inquiring about a Warhawk blocked 408-422 low compression engine with a GT55-91mm turbo, a 1,500 RWHP project.

www.fasttimesmotorworks.com maybe they have a privce, I don't remember.

I got an answering machine today.

Quickin

How big do cams get for a BBC, numbers-wise.

Give me an example of specs on what would be considered a huge cam....yet daily drivable.

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Fogle07

iTrader: (5)

might want to check out hardcore racing. they make a 454ci small block i think thats rated at 650hp. that would be a nice sleeper. ive seen one make i think like 1500hp with twin turbos. awesome engine imo.


i think the 572 engines that gm offers will love a bigger camshaft a little nitrous or blower. id love to have one.

texinteg

iTrader: (4)

Ya'll realize that both of those motors are under rated. I work for Apple Chevrolet (one of the biggest GM Performance Parts dealers in the US next to SDPP). I have talked to the tech Support for these engines multiple times and these guys know what there talking about. They test these engines for about 24 hours straight with varying RPM's. 7000 rpm in a big block is for extened periods of time is amazing. GM sent us DVD's of this engine and they scream. If any one needs a hookup on GMPP let me know, I can try to help you out or if you have any questions regarding the engines let me know.