Patriot Performance sbc 195cc heads???
#1
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
iTrader: (28)
Patriot Performance sbc 195cc heads???
Is anybody using Patriot's new 195cc Super Street heads on their small block? Any feedback? I have the opportunity to pick up a new set for cheap, wondering how much of an upgrade they'd be over vortecs.
Flow #'s:
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 70 58
.200 140 105
.300 193 144
.400 230 176
.500 259 190
.550 265 195
.600 270 201
.650 272 206
.700 273 211
Flow #'s:
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 70 58
.200 140 105
.300 193 144
.400 230 176
.500 259 190
.550 265 195
.600 270 201
.650 272 206
.700 273 211
#2
Seem to be good if flow is correct!
Ran the numbers on my Desktop Dyno, On a 383 chevy, 10-1 compression LT1 intake Comp cams Cam 08-503-8 they should Scream! They are no punk on a 355 with same cam either. There are alot of these listed on ebay right now. I have been considering them myself.
#4
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Aztec, NM
These heads have compairable flow numbers to the old AFR Street heads. They sell these heads with different size intake runners so that the customer can match his motor combo together. They DON'T care what size cam they have running them. You can run a smaller duration cam and have them operate just fine, but you would want to use a larger lift cam to take advantage of the heads.
#6
Upgrade over Vortecs
I like Vortec, and the Bow Tie Vortec with Small ports are great street heads. You are limited to 9.5 compression on Iron heads on pump gas. I like the Aluminum thing because it is forgiving to 10 -1 compression. I wouldn't want to blow a hole in a new piston. I was all about using Vortec Bow-tie Small port heads, but the 383 makes a lot of compression just by its nature.
You really want to keep the ports reasonably small on a street head. Bow-tie Vortec heads are 185cc runners, Vortec’s are 170cc's.
Scoggin Dickey has a great updated Vortec head that is set up for a roller cam. It is no slouch, and the price is right. Just be sure you have an intake that will work on the Vortec head. My LT1 swap would not. That is why I had look for something else. These are what I have found so far,
http://www.sdpc2000.com
You really want to keep the ports reasonably small on a street head. Bow-tie Vortec heads are 185cc runners, Vortec’s are 170cc's.
Scoggin Dickey has a great updated Vortec head that is set up for a roller cam. It is no slouch, and the price is right. Just be sure you have an intake that will work on the Vortec head. My LT1 swap would not. That is why I had look for something else. These are what I have found so far,
http://www.sdpc2000.com
#7
Originally Posted by psy4s
I like Vortec, and the Bow Tie Vortec with Small ports are great street heads. You are limited to 9.5 compression on Iron heads on pump gas. I like the Aluminum thing because it is forgiving to 10 -1 compression. I wouldn't want to blow a hole in a new piston. I was all about using Vortec Bow-tie Small port heads, but the 383 makes a lot of compression just by its nature.
You really want to keep the ports reasonably small on a street head. Bow-tie Vortec heads are 185cc runners, Vortec’s are 170cc's.
Scoggin Dickey has a great updated Vortec head that is set up for a roller cam. It is no slouch, and the price is right. Just be sure you have an intake that will work on the Vortec head. My LT1 swap would not. That is why I had look for something else. These are what I have found so far,
http://www.sdpc2000.com
You really want to keep the ports reasonably small on a street head. Bow-tie Vortec heads are 185cc runners, Vortec’s are 170cc's.
Scoggin Dickey has a great updated Vortec head that is set up for a roller cam. It is no slouch, and the price is right. Just be sure you have an intake that will work on the Vortec head. My LT1 swap would not. That is why I had look for something else. These are what I have found so far,
http://www.sdpc2000.com
Trending Topics
#8
New Cam Math
I am ok with that.
A lot has been done in the last 10 years with new cam math, and natural supercharging. That was what made the TPI such a serious thing for new cars of it's time. Look at the new Comp Cams Computer controlled Hydraulic Roller cams. They have huge lift, and extremely short duration. Typically you lend yourself to a smaller low end because your Torque numbers on the bottom will drop. I say usually, but with the new cam math, it can be compensated for. Cam part number 08-300-8, 262HR12 was a computer friendly cam with a 262/264 duration and a 450/480 lift at 12*, it has been replaced by the new cam part number 08-464-8, 252XFIHR13 that has a shorter 252/264 duration but a Monster 550/546 lift at 13* and the computer does not need to be reprogrammed.
The ability to match the larger ports has as much to do with the new cams as the heads themselves. Everything must match.
A lot has been done in the last 10 years with new cam math, and natural supercharging. That was what made the TPI such a serious thing for new cars of it's time. Look at the new Comp Cams Computer controlled Hydraulic Roller cams. They have huge lift, and extremely short duration. Typically you lend yourself to a smaller low end because your Torque numbers on the bottom will drop. I say usually, but with the new cam math, it can be compensated for. Cam part number 08-300-8, 262HR12 was a computer friendly cam with a 262/264 duration and a 450/480 lift at 12*, it has been replaced by the new cam part number 08-464-8, 252XFIHR13 that has a shorter 252/264 duration but a Monster 550/546 lift at 13* and the computer does not need to be reprogrammed.
The ability to match the larger ports has as much to do with the new cams as the heads themselves. Everything must match.
#9
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (127)
but i recently got a bunch of vortec heads, from a mechanic that i know, who retired and he passed me a bunch of vortec heads, i am familiar with them, but not really into them, i have 2 diff. versions i think. the ones with the saw tooth, pattern on the ends have a 062 casting # on the runners
and some others have 906 casting and do not have the saw tooth on the ends, are any betters than others?, the comb. chamber looks identical on bothversions.
any one know?
#10
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
iTrader: (28)
Originally Posted by NemeSS
but i recently got a bunch of vortec heads, from a mechanic that i know, who retired and he passed me a bunch of vortec heads, i am familiar with them, but not really into them, i have 2 diff. versions i think. the ones with the saw tooth, pattern on the ends have a 062 casting # on the runners
and some others have 906 casting and do not have the saw tooth on the ends, are any betters than others?, the comb. chamber looks identical on bothversions.
any one know?
#11
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Aztec, NM
Originally Posted by NemeSS
but i recently got a bunch of vortec heads, from a mechanic that i know, who retired and he passed me a bunch of vortec heads, i am familiar with them, but not really into them, i have 2 diff. versions i think. the ones with the saw tooth, pattern on the ends have a 062 casting # on the runners
and some others have 906 casting and do not have the saw tooth on the ends, are any betters than others?, the comb. chamber looks identical on bothversions.
any one know?
#12
Originally Posted by psy4s
I am ok with that.
A lot has been done in the last 10 years with new cam math, and natural supercharging. That was what made the TPI such a serious thing for new cars of it's time. Look at the new Comp Cams Computer controlled Hydraulic Roller cams. They have huge lift, and extremely short duration. Typically you lend yourself to a smaller low end because your Torque numbers on the bottom will drop. I say usually, but with the new cam math, it can be compensated for. Cam part number 08-300-8, 262HR12 was a computer friendly cam with a 262/264 duration and a 450/480 lift at 12*, it has been replaced by the new cam part number 08-464-8, 252XFIHR13 that has a shorter 252/264 duration but a Monster 550/546 lift at 13* and the computer does not need to be reprogrammed.
The ability to match the larger ports has as much to do with the new cams as the heads themselves. Everything must match.
A lot has been done in the last 10 years with new cam math, and natural supercharging. That was what made the TPI such a serious thing for new cars of it's time. Look at the new Comp Cams Computer controlled Hydraulic Roller cams. They have huge lift, and extremely short duration. Typically you lend yourself to a smaller low end because your Torque numbers on the bottom will drop. I say usually, but with the new cam math, it can be compensated for. Cam part number 08-300-8, 262HR12 was a computer friendly cam with a 262/264 duration and a 450/480 lift at 12*, it has been replaced by the new cam part number 08-464-8, 252XFIHR13 that has a shorter 252/264 duration but a Monster 550/546 lift at 13* and the computer does not need to be reprogrammed.
The ability to match the larger ports has as much to do with the new cams as the heads themselves. Everything must match.
#13
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lake Anna, VA/ Fairmont, WV
These heads have compairable flow numbers to the old AFR Street heads.
My 1992 era AFR 190cc's flow
.200 144 115
.300 207 146
.400 244 176
.500 262 190
#14
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Aztec, NM
Originally Posted by Ryan02SS
They flow similar up top but the AFR's own them in the midlift flow area.
My 1992 era AFR 190cc's flow
.200 144 115
.300 207 146
.400 244 176
.500 262 190
My 1992 era AFR 190cc's flow
.200 144 115
.300 207 146
.400 244 176
.500 262 190
#16
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lake Anna, VA/ Fairmont, WV
Sorry, I shouldn't have made such a broad statement. I was just trying to give everyone a baseline idea of how they would probably perform. I am sure that alot of the veiwers know how well that the AFR's perform.
#18
AFR Price
Looking at the web page,
http://www.airflowresearch.com/07racer.php
AFR price for Street heads
Part #1040 AFR SBC 195cc Street Heads, L98 angle plug w/heat riser, 65cc chambers, complete w/parts 1 pair $1,485.00
The chambers, though not the same, are the Vortec design which was actually designed by AFR for Chevrolet. This is a very good design. So mostly it comes to Price. Flow is close, but not exact. AFR is still better, but then you expect it to be.
We are looking at $200 or in that neighborhood.
So what are you thinking now? These still look like great heads. If I could get the Patriot's 195cc Super Street heads for around $1000 I may have to try them. If you don't like them, there is always EBay.
http://www.airflowresearch.com/07racer.php
AFR price for Street heads
Part #1040 AFR SBC 195cc Street Heads, L98 angle plug w/heat riser, 65cc chambers, complete w/parts 1 pair $1,485.00
The chambers, though not the same, are the Vortec design which was actually designed by AFR for Chevrolet. This is a very good design. So mostly it comes to Price. Flow is close, but not exact. AFR is still better, but then you expect it to be.
We are looking at $200 or in that neighborhood.
So what are you thinking now? These still look like great heads. If I could get the Patriot's 195cc Super Street heads for around $1000 I may have to try them. If you don't like them, there is always EBay.
#19
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Aztec, NM
Personally I would buy the AFR's as they are a very well proven head. If Patriots pricing was cheaper then maybe I would use them on street rods were they mostly just want looks. I just hate leaveing HP on the table for a few hundred $ more.
#20
406 Vortec Bow-Tie Large Ports
Hello- I currently have a 406 with vortec heads. I was thinking about upgrading to the vortec bowtie with large ports. has anyone done that upgrade and do they think it was worth the money? I also have a set of vortec heads for sale if anyone is interested. I am new to the board thanks for all your help>>>