Aside from the fact that the Cobra is faster, is it the general opinion that the WS6 is a better built and more attractive car, or is it just me. I am trying to get into another vette, so I am selling my WS6, however, just between the Cobra and WS6 ...I think that without the Supercharger, the Cobra just isn't up to spec. Discuss

 

No. It's a dead horse and you there's no point beating it.

 

I love my WS6 but I think a cobra is a sexy car.
I could see myself owning one if I were to start over.

The thought of being able to make 500-600rwhp with bolt ons is awesome. Plus making 600rwhp on those cars can be made reliably with good tuning (something an LS1 can never do reliably)...

I know you said "aside from performance" but thought this might help anyway...

 

I love my camaro, but the cobra is the only ford i would definately buy if i could. i also think it looks good

 

[QUOTE=2002_TAWS6]Plus making 600rwhp on those cars can be made reliably with good tuning (something an LS1 can never do reliably)...
[QUOTE]


I don't find that true at all. Eastside just recently built a stock cube motor w/ forged internals + an ATI D1SC Procharger. They claim the car has run out of fuel, and they are awaiting their 60 pound incjectors. Right now the car is making around 590rwhp, with only 8 or 10 pounds of boost. It's set up for daily driving, and track runs

This is just an example, but it's not the only car doing this...

The Cobra is a bad *** ride, and I probably would have bought one if I hadn't found my car exactly how I wanted it sitting at a dealer.

Both are great cars, it's just that the Cobra is a bit ahead of the game with the supercharger. Both cars respond well to bolt ons, it's just like I said the Cobra has the upper hand. I can't see one better than the other. I like the looks of both, I like the performance of both, and I wish I could have both

 

[QUOTE=BAD *** TA WS6][QUOTE=2002_TAWS6]Plus making 600rwhp on those cars can be made reliably with good tuning (something an LS1 can never do reliably)...
[QUOTE]

My bad .. what I meant was you could do 600rwhp reliably in a cobra without having to change the motor/internals.

It would cost way less overall to make 600rwhp in a Cobra 03 than a LS1/LS6 car... UNLESS you dont care about reliability ofcourse.

 

Ok guys, i with you on saying that the Cobra is a sexy car but for starters the Mach 1 beat the cobra out in jut about every magizine ive seen. yes i know theres people to claim that theyve done mid 12's stock on a cobra but who really knows? Ok as far as modding for each car its realtively the same cuz ive done my research on both seeing how i was gonna get one but for a mustang to reach 600+ power your talking about a blowzilla s/c, tune, pulleys, striaght axle (broken halfshafts wont hold that puppy), CAI, clutch, which is well over 6000+ , now for the LS1, heads cam, converter, rear end, 150 shot, suspension, and a tune should make the cobra run away with its tail between its legs for a lot cheaper but im not one to bitch and moan there both sweet rides and costly to make a monster out of.... but to leave you guy with advise remember HP is nothing to brag about its all about what comes down to track times, cuz ive seen 600+ mustangs lose to 500 HP Camaros vettes and TA's, Unit213 car looks sexy best wishes to your 600 hp project lemme know how much it costs you in the end

 

I am still thinking of trading mine in this weekend if noone buys it. Local dealer has some great deals on Cobras. Plus I want a vert. I have a near new WS6 at a great deal.

 

I hope you know we were talking about modding 03 Cobra not the Mach 1. I dont know about the magazines that were saying Mach1s beat the cobras or such but trust me in straightline performance a stock LS1 fbody should kill a Mach 1 if not that then stay really close to it. Even if a Mach 1 would beat a stock LS1 fbody it will be no where near as how bad an 03 cobra would beat it. Also with an 03 cobra you should not need a different supercharger to reach 600rwhp and even if you did dont forget the stock 03 supercharger is worth a lot of money these days. I have NO DOUBT that an 03 cobra could make 600rwhp in under 4000.

In the meantime an LS1 fbody or Mach 1 would never be able to get there. As a matter of fact I think the Mach 1s are higher compression. They might not even be able to hit 600 at the wheels without internal engine mods.

What do you guys think? Correct me if im wrong about all this.

 

Ask unit213 he knows his **** im sure he'll tell you that you need blowzilla to obtain 600 to the wheels cuz ive NEVER YET SEEN one that wa truly 600 hp to the wheels WITHOUT ONE

 

Ummm...where the hell on god's green earth are you going to get an LS1 head and cam package, a twelve bolt rearend, converter, a nitrous system with all extra parts needed to work right, full suspension setup, plus a worthwhile tune to make it all work right for $6000.00???

Not to mention you forgot to add in the necessary parts to make this combo live: a new driveshaft, built tranny, tranny cooler. These items aren't pocket change.

I think you need to recalculate your totals. I love the ls1 but I will be the first to admit when there is a better (easier) platform to run and work on out there. And halfshafts are peanuts compared to a new rearend....the ones in my viper were less than half of a brand new Moser twelve.

I've been contemplating the idea of picking one up myself.

 

I don't agree. Pricewise MAYBE, just MAYBE you could get your power in the Cobra a bit cheaper than the LS1. But then you have a tempermental FORD and that's a really bad thing (that comment comes from experience...alot of it). Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the GMMG ZL-1s at least really close to 600hp? Or are we talking a different motor there? Bottom line is if you can build that 4.6L Cobra motor to 600hp reliably (not sure I believe that either) then you sure as hell can do it with the LS1 - that's just a matter of physics, as the 346 is a much better base to begin with. As for price, yeah it may cost you a bit more...but not enough to make it prohibitive...remember we're talking about a pushrod V8 versus a OHC (much more complex) V8 with smaller displacement. Which one runs more reliably should be obvious knowing only those couple of facts.

If all that is not enough (the fact that it's a FORD is enough for me), consider the design of the cars...i've raced the same 03 Cobra twice and beat him solidly both times...granted I have a bit more experience than your average street racer, but that means the Cobra is no runaway.

One thing I don't understand...why is it only now, that the F-body's are gone, that Ford finally decided to build a car that would have been a worthy competitor? It would have been great to build the SC Cobra back in 99 with the redesign of the stang. Then as they say, we would "have a game".

 

The 03+ Cobra is definitely a cool car, but there is no way in hell I would even think about trading my black WS6 for one. I would rather have a stock black WS6 than a 600hp Cobra. The black WS6 is just the best looking ride out there. Cobra doesn't even come close as far as looks go.

 

If you think about it this way, A WS6 would never make much more than 500 NA on the stock 346 with super good heads and a HUGE cam shaft NOT a daily driver in my book.

Highest you can go on a WS6 (LS1) block is 550 - 600 rwhp living dangerously.

In a Cobra, you could make 600rwhp EASILY weaving thru traffic. You could feel that power from speed bump to speed bump.

If you really want to know what car would be a better start from a "performance standpoint" its going to be the car that could handle more power. In other words the car with the stronger block AND the car that will pull harder/faster at max reliable power - And in this case the 03 Cobra is a winner. Now if you were to ask an 03 Cobra or an 02 Z06 it would be a totally different story since a 550rwhp Z06 could spank a 600rwhp Cobra given the Z06 is lighter and has a MARVELOUS transmission, aerodynamics ... etc Plus its not just a corvette is the top of the line Z06

A little more about why "I" like the Cobra 03:

Im making 483rwhp (cam, bolt ons and a 100 shot) and I raced a 475rwhp Cobra 3 times.

Race One was without spray (380rwhp) ..ehehe... just checking if it was worth turning on the bottle . It was a short 1 gear quickie between up coming traffic.

Race two I turned the bottle on and we raced from a 2nd gear roll to 3rd. Cobras come with 3:55 gears he had the jump in every gear but did not start pulling away. I felt like I was catching up in 3rd gear but couldnt really tell for sure. We had to slow down cars were ahead.

Race three was a first gear roll. I sprayed him in first gear spinning madly (stock 10 bolt still making it) and still had the jump everytime in every gear I was ahead . Freakin Cobras gotta lose muwahaha! . Once I shifted to 4th I started pulling away. YES ITS AWESOME THAT I DID and im very proud of such accomplishment. I am not complaining about my cars performance whatsoever.

But DAAAMN he can go that fast anytime he wants too! My 483rwhp ride would cost me $5 on nitrous in every race. He could go that fast any day with a cool supercharger whine rather than a lumpy shakey WS6 with a lobey cam that sounds like a 7 sec car running 10s or 11s . Plus refilling the bottle SUCKS. Oh and if you want to go supercharging your WS6 you wouldnt want to go higher than 8#s of boost and thats only 450-460rwhp. Basically, not worth the money unless you get a better block . I definetly would consider heads at the moment but would probably not make higher than 430rwhp NA (driveability is a major concern. changing springs every 6 months is not something i want to do AT ALL). But how bad would an 03 cobra beat me if I were to only make 430rwhp? The same 475rwhp would still hand my *** if I were to not spray and hell if I bump into a 600rwhp Cobra the game is over even if I do spray to 550rwhp. Now not only will I spend $5 on nitrous on every race BUT ILL STILL LOSE!! Yes I can go with a better block and a supercharger but Ill spend A LOT OF MORE MONEY than if I started with an 03 cobra.

Think about this too. I have almost $2700 to spend and im dying for a set of good heads but my money will have to go on a f-ing piece of crap rear end that will break. Im not even going with gears. Well not all the money is going on a rearend but so far it looks like it will be close to $2300 installed with a better driveshaft.

Who on earth would want to pay $2300 and ONLY go slower? (remember all its only going to be a beefier rearend heavier than stock). Doesnt that just SUCK . But then who would want to drive his WS6 with a ticking timebomb rearend that go break at any race on the highway. How embarrassing would that be (my case since nitto DRs are pushing my luck already even on the street).

I sure wish I could run my car at the track one day.. but I guess my toy is costing me too much now

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying I would go with an 03 cobra over a WS6 or vice versa. But I sure would not mind starting with an 03 cobra. Sure its a mustang but it can kill most WS6s out there if they're staying with the stock block or spending $4000-8000 on forged internal stuff and all that crap.

Of course all im saying is that I wish my block could handle more power because I dont see myself spending lots of money buying a 408 or something because it would be ridiculously expensive. But I could definetly see myself with a 600rwhp if I bought one.

I am very into performance just as well as appearance. As much as I think WS6s look Amazingly brutal and scarey I must admit those cobras are starting to impress me more and more everyday.

 

Maybe someone can link this to an svt forum. I bet we could learn a lot more about the pros and cons of each car ... if we get cobra owners participating ofcourse.

First question How much would it cost to make 600rwhp on an 03 Cobra?
Mention all the basic stuff that needs to be upgraded.

 

I'm telling you it's comparable in every respect. Think about this...the 02 WS6 went for $32,600 fully loaded with 325hp (used to sell them). The 03 Cobra is easily $36,000 fully loaded. What's the price for a blower setup like the Cobra has? $3500 should cover it. Which would bring the price down to the same level just about. So now we have two cars both priced at or around $32,500...one making 305hp, one making 325hp (now we know how the LS1's dyno and the ram air gimmick and such, so i'll just call that even). Also consider again that the LS1 is a pushrod 2V design...it's a very simple design that can be reliably built for high power street use.

It's hard to say what upgrades make what power...so i'm going to use an example that most would agree is fairly reliable. John Lingenfelter offers engine packages for the LS1 - hardly cost-effective, but that fact will just make this comparison more fair. For $7000 you can get 420hp NA...add a good dual exhast, intake and tuning and your looking at 440hp. Now add the Vortech Centrifugal supercharger (non-intercooled) for $4000. A setup like that could definetly net you 600hp very reliably. All that for under $12,000. Notice there's no nitrous in that setup.

Modding the Cobra's OHC motor is much more expensive...when I used to work at the Ford dealer (not my favorite place) a co-worker of mine had a 2000 Steeda R380 (same motor, different blower). Of course I asked him all about it and such...I can't believe what he paid to have that thing done...$25,000 for the 2000 GT, then $17,000 for the mods...end result was $42,000 spent for a very liberally rated 380hp. He still got beat by WS6's.

Also remember that the Cobra has a roots blower...not nearly as efficient as a centrifugal blower like the Vortech (or even the Paxton blower that the R380 has). So simply changing pulleys won't net you miraculous gains...however it will get you problems.

I'm not attempting to make the Cobra sound shitty or anything, i'm not a Mustang fan whatsoever, but I have respect for nice cars. The Cobra certainly is one...just not for me.

 

I was talking about the Cobra making 600 at the wheels... give it another shot

its not happening on a WS6 "reliably" thats for sure. And it will never make that kind of power reliably 24/7.

A supercharger will not get you there. 8#s on an ATI D1SC is barely making 463 at the wheels and its still a tough call to say whether its reliable or not. Some have done well others have blown their motors less than a week after the install.

600 at the wheels is just not happening "reliably" unless we start cheating like using race gas and stuff. Modded 03 Cobras can make those numbers on a different supercharger setup and pump gas. With that setup you can feel that power EVERYTIME you floor it.

Can WS6s make 500 at the wheels everyday with a stock 346 motor? Sure! but it will be the LOBIEST and SHAKEY-EST WS6 ever out there that will never be a daily driver and would be no where near as fast as a 600rwhp 03 Cobra.

Not trying to talk smack but I think you might of missed my point on what I said earlier.

 

Let's do it this way then...you show me a Cobra that fits that description, and how much it cost to make it that way. We'll go from there. I'm not saying that 600rwhp is easy or even possible on a WS6, but I am saying that if it's that tough to achieve on the LS1, it's going to be as tough or tougher on the 4.6L motor, blown or NA.

By the way, nice car. Are you satisfied with your Corsa system? I'm weeks away from ordering one, so i'm just wondering how you like yours.

 

Heres a link with a 611rwhp Cobra:
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58249

I have no idea what it costs to make 600rwhp on those cars. Remember I asked that question as I want to know as well

I love my corsa system but I hate it too. I love the way it sounds. I dont have any head drone with my Kooks LTs (although I have high flow cats). But I hate it because the bracket on the exhaust pipe that goes over the rear axle keeps breaking. Lets just say Corsa did a shitty job on the welding. They did cover everything under warranty and provide return shipping ofcourse. All in all, Ill try to stick with the catback as much as I can. If I started over I might have chose the GMMG catback. I've seen many corsa catback owners that ended up replacing their system with borla or something else. I sure hope I dont end up doing the same thing because mine cost me A LOT. Do get the awesome tips though if your getting a corsa (they're the more expensive ones). They look WAAAAAY better. GMMG also have oval tips that look cool too.

 

Oh yeah .. be sure to let me know what you think about the 611rwhp cobra.

Enjoy the vid