grb

I'm merely using the prevailing logic. No, wait a second....I'm not doing it right. Those '69 ZL1's did not have Corvette wheels, nor brakes and for that matter didn't even have A/C! I'm dropping that offer to $4k....low mileage frame off restorations only.

grb

Hey 02_ etc. I just noticed yours is a phase II. I drove mine as a phase II this afternoon for the first time. Absolutely no disappointment whatsoever. 465RWHP and pulls harder than a bad dentist. I'll post some pictures tomorrow!

02_Phase2_ZL1

Cool.................look forward to seeing them.

Isn't yours #51 (as I remember)?

Mine is #17.

NEW

Hey Guys, Grb and 02 ZL1 you have some really good points here..

The guys saying that gmmg cars is just some wheels, a lid, catback and stickers, you just plain out have a different way to look at things..

I considered all kinds of options when purchasing my car, we(guys owning GMMG cars) know what have been done to the cars, we are very very (most of at least) car interested, and do indeed know that we could make this **** ourselves from mailordering all kinds scdp parts, summit, borla and you name it......

THAT IS NOT THE POINT, WE LIKE THESE CARS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT A COOL BENCH MARK IN THE CAMARO HISTORY, It was about the first time you could buy a CAMARO, tune it, hop it up, and still under factory warranty,,, this things hasnt been possible since the mid 70s..

GMMG did/does a great job on the various packages, and versions they pulled out, and lets just hope they does so on the 5th gen.

Everybody could go and buy a SS, Z28 and so on at the dealer.... But only 69 guys got a ZL1, only 35 guys got a Hot Rod, and so on.. Limited production will always demand higher prices no matter what, but most (99%) of the time, performance helps concerning wanted, and rare..(do not blend your **** box of a 6 cyl car, or the 1 SS with pink cloth interior or whatsoever into, desireable, and wanted here now)

DO YOU NOT THINK THAT IN THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD, OR USA IF THAT IS YOUR PLAYGROUND IS MORE THAN 69 GUYS, THAT HAVE THE MONEY, AND LIKE CARS, AND WOULD LIKE A ZL1?? there is always someone wanting to step up and pay for something really special.

Just my thoughts...

GRB, well probably meet this year again too, i really liked CUMMING GA,,,,;-)


NEW

grb

I watched, stunned, last night as two '59 Chrysler whatevers sold for $285,000 + the 10% buyers fee. I have no earthly idea what the appeal of these two cars is. In fact if you had offered me either car yesterday afternoon for $50k I would have bitch slapped your *** into next week.

It just goes to show that people have different motivations for wanting different things whether it be cars, homes, boats, babes, expensive watches, etc. There is no accounting for taste or desire. In fact, I would bet most GMMG owners bought there cars for varying reasons. Likewise there are people who see a ZL1 as a dolled-up camaro and nothing else. I understand that.

Personally I think we, all muscle car lovers, may well be looking at the tail-end of real muscle cars in America. Our tyrants do not approve of the personal freedom the automobiles afford us. And the have outright disdain for our non-hybrid, needlessly powerful pleasure cars. (Ever see a politician in a muscle car?) Gore has convinced about half of our American idiots that the internal combustion engine is the planet's #1 enemy. Pelosi just yesterday promised that the dems will cure America of it's dependency on foreign sources of energy within 10 years. CAFE is going to go way up as is the GAS GUZZLER tax (think less than 35mpg). I think we all know what that means! Our cars have a target painted on them.

I'm going to get the car in an hour or so and will TRY to post some pictures.

02_Phase2_ZL1

NEW AND GRB.........................good points both of you make.

The GMMG cars may well be the next Yenkos...............who knows? When guys (and gals) got the Yenko cars back in the late '60's and early 70's, they just wanted a cool car that their neighbor didn't have (and probably couldn't or didn't want to afford). They also wanted a car with performance.

Along these lines was part of my thinking. I'm know Matt (Murphy) for a long time and I too wanted a real performance car that no one else in my area had. In fact, there are only two ZL1's in Iowa, One Hot Rod Camaro and two Berger SS's (at least as far as I know.

I enjoy my car very much. I enjoy driving it (what little I do drive it), washing it, polishing it, going to car shows with it and talking to people about it.

Every time I look at it, I smile.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

You GMMG car owners don't have to justify your purchases to us, everyone has their own reason. I really like the Berger SS, but I think the ZL1 was overpriced for what it is. One big difference between the '69 and the '02, is that GM built the ZL1 and it had a factory order RPO. Same with the COPO cars. They weren't bought and converted by a dealership. Will that hurt their collectibility? Nobody can say, in 20 yrs none of these cars might be worth anything. My WS6 Formula is 1 of 18 built, my Formula Hawk is 1 of 16 built. The rarity is one main reason I keep them around. Like someone said, a car is worth what someone will pay for it.

Snorman

FYI...there are a few LS1 F-bodies hitting the block this morning. An SS 'vert and a supercharged 'vert.
Prices have taken a huge hit this weekend, particularly the older 'Vettes. I was in on a '69, numbers matching, very nicely restored, tri-power 427/435, Monaco Red coupe yesterday afternoon. I jumped in at $55k, took it to $70k where it stalled. Looked like I had it, then a bidder from the skybox took it to $72k...I could have had it for $75k (with the Speed! camera in my face along with the bidder assistant!). It was lot #983.1. They're not bringing huge money. Consider that a '64 NCRS Top Flight, tuxedo black fuelie went for $77k on Thursday night, and the money that late model F-body brought is stunning. Another super deal was a '67, fully restored, numbers matching 442 convertible. It brought $36k...yes...thirty-six thousand.
Biggest dollar cars continue to be the Shelbys, some of the older, unique 'verts (mid-50's Caddy's, the Chryslers), and the resto-mod cars. I was looking all day at lot #1040, and willing to pay nice money for the car. Turns out it went for $182.5k! This was a custom '69 Camaro! I dropped out at $110k, and I hope the guy who bought it likes it, because he won't get that back out of it. Last night, a Hemi Superbee went for $95k! This car is one of three ever produced. Last year, it would have went well at $125-150k.
Anyway...off to Westworld...
S.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Thanks for the B-J updates Snorman! I see you have expanded your collection beyond Mustangs

grb

I just spoke to Mike when I picked up my car a few minutes ago. He and Ron will argue that the entire pkg. including those oh-so-cheap Penske shocks, Z06 brakes, etc. was a bargain. I'll let them, the experts, speak to that.

One thing people overlook when comparing GMMG cars to past muscle cars is the fact that Yenkos were not factory authorized cars. GMMG ZL1's were. John Heinricy himself had to give one of the final OK's. I swapped e-mails with Scott Settlemire for months lobbying for GM to let Matt build the cars. He was solidly behind the project. Matt nor anyone else knew for sure that GM would go along with the car until the last minute. (There is a rumor that the Mustang Cobra GTR, or whatever it was, helped GM make up their minds.)

Also keep in mind that the '69 ZL1 was the ONLY car GM has ever allowed to be returned by a dealer to GM and then reallocated because THEY WOULD NOT SELL. I believe most if not all 02's were sold before they were even built. Adjusted for inflation I would imagine that a phase I cost less in '04 dollars than did the '69.

They may not ever have collector value. The market this week, however, seems to be saying they will. But even if they don't I think most '02 ZL1 owners have no regrets whatsoever. I don't.

I also think the current owners are the kind of people who believe in 'pride in possession' and want these cars to keep and drive. I don't think there will be many changing hands in the near future.

02_Phase2_ZL1

Well said GRB ! ! !

grb

Allow me to waste a little of my time and yours by trying to post a picture of the only double heart transplant ZL1 (I think)....
That's not the one....I'll try one more time...that is the car today though.

grb

I think this is a better picture. You never know with me.

Snorman

Tony...no problem. I could go on and on about the deals we saw through last evening. How about a pro-street, fully built '66 Chevy II, blown-big block, 4-link, 4-wheel discs, top quality paint (I noticed one flaw on the passenger side door)...$53.9k with buyers 10% commission. The sister car was a beautiful '61 bubble-back Impala, big-block...$55k with buyers commission (BTW...lots 1071 and 1072 respectively). Last night, a 23k mile, '72 'Vette with a 454/automatic went for $41,250 with BC. This is an absolutely beautiful car...literally flawless outside with block-hugger headers and a few other mild performance upgrades. The LS6 Chevelles...dude...you don't want to know. I watched one go for low-70's early yesterday, and another go for $79k last night. The late car had me so tempted, and if it weren't for my father, I'd probably be making shipping arrangements for it today.

Today, they're feeding the frenzy a bit with only marginal success. Just about an hour ago, I watched a GT500KR with an automatic, beautiful unrestored "survivor" car go for $125k. Last year, that car would have pushed $200k. The Hemi cars are so far also hurting...over the next few hours, we'll see more...but I think it's safe to say the low prices at B-J this year are going to have a trickle-down effect to the rest of the market.

We left for lunch, and are out of that rat-race for a few hours, might head back this evening but there's nothing hitting the block that I want. I bid (in sequence) on a '67 Chevy II (lot 947) that went for $67k, a '69 tri-power, big-block 'Vette (lot 983.1) that went for $72k (I could have had that car, but let it go) and a custom '69 Camaro (lot 1040) that went for $182.5k. Huge prices on the resto-mod cars. I was intently watching a '57 Chevy 210 with an LS7 in it today, built by the same shop that did #1040. I was willing to go low 6-figures, and watched it sail to $170k.

A few lots to watch today...1285, 1290, 1294, 1298, 1302, 1309, 1310, 1317 and 1318 (the Teutel cars of Orange County Choppers), 1327, 1342, 1347 (another car built by the guys who did 1040 and 1231.1), 1357 (Lingenfelter widebody, twin-turbo C5).

Enjoy!
S.

Snorman

BTW...after coming home empty-handed, it looks like a Viper is next.


S.

HOTROD1974

Well, this is my take on how things are shaking out for the GMMG cars.

Tuesday lot #86 a Artic White 2002 ZL1 Phase I (400 hp) sold for $80,000.00.
Nice 2 owner, low mileage car. Compare this to the 2006 "BlackJack" Phase III
(430 hp) Mustang, owned and driven by Jack Rouch " the cat-in-the-hat" which
sold Sat. night for $75,000.00

So, I think the pricing is in the ballpark! I my opinion....nice Camaros are always worth a little more than nice Mustang's

One more GMMG Camaro left to go across the block today. Watch for lot #1524, a 2002 HOT ROD Magazine Edition Camaro Phase I (380 hp). This car is one of two proto-types produced and is owned by Petersen Publishing...HOT ROD Magazine.

So, what kind of price will the market place on this highly documented and rare Camaro (2 proto-types and 36 numbered cars, one for each year the Camaro was produced)

grb

If there is one Mustang I would like to have it would be a Rouch, but I like the red even better. But, I would have had a hard time walking away from that black one. It was a beauty!
It will be interesting to see what the Hot Rod car goes for. What did they go for new?
Also, a few more HP seems to always bring a lot more money. Too bad it's not a Phase II.

LateBrakeU2

iTrader: (3)

I sat with Matt friday night,we both agreed the Phase III cars are money in the bank.There is one person that has over ten in his collection,and GM will not be producing the C5R blocks much longer.If you want to talk about a direct pipeline from Chevy's racing dept to Lemans and Daytona 24 victories down to production f bodies(just like those 69 in 69)there is a good chance these will become highly sought after down the road a few years.(Remember almost 3/4's of the 1969 ZL1 cars were returned to Gibb.)

That Hot Rod car has 5500 mi.-the ZL1 has 163..big difference for serious collectors(hint)but who know it's BJ. JMO

HOTROD1974

Well, I guess we got our answer...........$30,000.

SPEED commentator,Bob Varsha said it all..."the car was well bought."
Too bad I wasn't there. I could now be the owner of two GMMG HOT RODs!

02SSLE

iTrader: (26)

bad ***