Front LED turn signals wont flash with LEDs in gauge cluster
04-24-2017, 03:44 AM
#1
Front LED turn signals wont flash with LEDs in gauge cluster Had the LED signals in which worked without issues with my electronic flasher until we put LED's in my cluster. They're soldered in so there's no replacing them with indiscant bulbs. The rears are regular bulbs as well. I can't get the fronts to flash at all cluster in or out. With the headlights on they try to flash a little but it's sporadic. They were working fine until now. Any ideas?
04-24-2017, 08:11 AM
#2
Did you install a true no-load LED flasher or just an electronic one like an EL12?
It's easy enough to test if load is the problem - put a standard incandescent bulb back in a front lamp and see if the turn signal works on that side. Then swap sides to confirm the other side as well. If the standard bulb doesn't solve the problem then you'll have to track down the cause... wiring, DRL module, flasher, turn signal switch, etc. But if the standard bulb makes everything work then a no-load flasher (or adding load resistors) should be all you need.
It's easy enough to test if load is the problem - put a standard incandescent bulb back in a front lamp and see if the turn signal works on that side. Then swap sides to confirm the other side as well. If the standard bulb doesn't solve the problem then you'll have to track down the cause... wiring, DRL module, flasher, turn signal switch, etc. But if the standard bulb makes everything work then a no-load flasher (or adding load resistors) should be all you need.
04-24-2017, 09:28 AM
#3
Did you install a true no-load LED flasher or just an electronic one like an EL12?
It's easy enough to test if load is the problem - put a standard incandescent bulb back in a front lamp and see if the turn signal works on that side. Then swap sides to confirm the other side as well. If the standard bulb doesn't solve the problem then you'll have to track down the cause... wiring, DRL module, flasher, turn signal switch, etc. But if the standard bulb makes everything work then a no-load flasher (or adding load resistors) should be all you need.
It's easy enough to test if load is the problem - put a standard incandescent bulb back in a front lamp and see if the turn signal works on that side. Then swap sides to confirm the other side as well. If the standard bulb doesn't solve the problem then you'll have to track down the cause... wiring, DRL module, flasher, turn signal switch, etc. But if the standard bulb makes everything work then a no-load flasher (or adding load resistors) should be all you need.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 04-24-2017 at 09:48 AM.
04-24-2017, 10:49 AM
#4
No, if the other lamps flash normally then it's not the flasher causing the problem - all of the turn signals use the same flasher.
Do the DRLs work? If not then the first thing to check is whether the bulbs and/or front sockets are the problem (because it's the easiest and cheapest thing to check). Pull the bulb out of one side and check for corrosion on the contacts in the socket. Then install a regular 3157 bulb and see if the DRLs and turn signals work on that side. If so, you have a bad LED bulb... often that's just because the wire contacts on the base of the bulb are out of position or not flexed enough to make contact in the socket. That can be corrected by carefully bending the bulb's wire contacts.
If you cleaned the sockets and still don't get anything with a known good standard bulb then you'll have to do some testing with a test light or multimeter. First check for power at the socket contacts (probably none based on the previous testing but it never hurts to double check).
Then pull your radio and check for power at the DRL module behind it. Each front lamp has a pair of blue wires for each front lamp - with and without a white stripe. The light blue wires are left side and the dark blue wires are right side. The white stripe wires are flashing power input to the module while the plain wires are output to the front lamps. If you have power on the plain blue wires then the problem is in the wiring from the module to the front lamps. If you have no power on the plain blue wires but you do have power on the blue with white stripe wires (with the ignition and turn signals on) then the problem is in the DRL module. If you don't have power on the white stripe wires then the problem is likely the wiring between the turn signal switch and the DRL module. If it was a Firebird or pre-1998 Camaro then I would say it could also be the turn signal switch but on a later Camaro with amber rear signals that is unlikely since your rear lights still work. That's because the switch internally handles front and rear signals separately on vehicles that share the tail lights for brake and turn signal.
Do the DRLs work? If not then the first thing to check is whether the bulbs and/or front sockets are the problem (because it's the easiest and cheapest thing to check). Pull the bulb out of one side and check for corrosion on the contacts in the socket. Then install a regular 3157 bulb and see if the DRLs and turn signals work on that side. If so, you have a bad LED bulb... often that's just because the wire contacts on the base of the bulb are out of position or not flexed enough to make contact in the socket. That can be corrected by carefully bending the bulb's wire contacts.
If you cleaned the sockets and still don't get anything with a known good standard bulb then you'll have to do some testing with a test light or multimeter. First check for power at the socket contacts (probably none based on the previous testing but it never hurts to double check).
Then pull your radio and check for power at the DRL module behind it. Each front lamp has a pair of blue wires for each front lamp - with and without a white stripe. The light blue wires are left side and the dark blue wires are right side. The white stripe wires are flashing power input to the module while the plain wires are output to the front lamps. If you have power on the plain blue wires then the problem is in the wiring from the module to the front lamps. If you have no power on the plain blue wires but you do have power on the blue with white stripe wires (with the ignition and turn signals on) then the problem is in the DRL module. If you don't have power on the white stripe wires then the problem is likely the wiring between the turn signal switch and the DRL module. If it was a Firebird or pre-1998 Camaro then I would say it could also be the turn signal switch but on a later Camaro with amber rear signals that is unlikely since your rear lights still work. That's because the switch internally handles front and rear signals separately on vehicles that share the tail lights for brake and turn signal.
04-24-2017, 05:10 PM
#5
Hmmm.. I havent tried with another bulb yet but I took the driverside one out and refitted it and even extended the prongs out and made sure they had good contact.. it flashed 4 times then stopped... oddly the passenger side is working now without issues... any ideas?
04-24-2017, 05:50 PM
#6
Something really weird is going on. I swapped my FRONT RIGHT LED Bulb (which started working after I took the front left one out and reseated it) to my FRONT LEFT which still wasn't working. When I swapped it, it still did not work, however; just incase I inserted the bulb the wrong way, I turned it around and then my turn signal lit up SOLID on the gauge cluster and rear ONLY (Front didn't light up at all).. I swapped it back around and now BOTH TURN SIGNALS WORK, HOWEVER; Now my BRIGHT LIGHTS illuminator on my cluster is staying lit EVEN WHILE the bright lights are OFF. No bright lights on (head lights are still on) and its saying my bright lights are on... and I can't get it to go off either.. it always stays lit unless the headlights are off...any ideas?
Edit: So I disconnected the actual bright light bulbs (which were not illuminated) and reconnected them and the bright light indicator finally went off, but then the turn signals stopped working as SOON as I did that!.. So I refitted both bulbs and turned the driver side bulb around (solidly lighting up the cluster signal and rear signal) and then back around and the turn signals started working again as if nothing was ever wrong with them..bright light illuminator stayed off too..
Any idea on earth as to what happened? Do you think I may need a load resistor since my cluster bulbs are now LED's? maybe the BCM is freaking out over the extremely low load?
Edit: So I disconnected the actual bright light bulbs (which were not illuminated) and reconnected them and the bright light indicator finally went off, but then the turn signals stopped working as SOON as I did that!.. So I refitted both bulbs and turned the driver side bulb around (solidly lighting up the cluster signal and rear signal) and then back around and the turn signals started working again as if nothing was ever wrong with them..bright light illuminator stayed off too..
Any idea on earth as to what happened? Do you think I may need a load resistor since my cluster bulbs are now LED's? maybe the BCM is freaking out over the extremely low load?
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 04-24-2017 at 06:29 PM.
04-25-2017, 07:01 AM
#7
First thing to check is the front lamp harness grounds which are on the top of the radiator support on each side. The symptoms sound like a bad ground which will cause current to back feed through the circuit and illuminate bulbs that should not be on. This is especially true of the headlights where a bad ground will cause the low beam current to back feed through the high beam circuit. That's partly by design and is used to make the fog lights turn off when the high beams are in use.
If the grounds check out then the DRL module is the next place to look. It's the only device that handles both the front signals and the headlights. The module has internal (non-serviceable) relays that switch the front lamps between DRL and turn signal modes. It also controls the automatic headlights.
The BCM is not involved with the turn signals or headlights in any way (I can't figure out why so many people jump on the BCM bandwagon when they have any electrical problem). The BCM handles keyless entry, alarm system, retained accessory power (RAP), power locks, interior courtesy lights, hatch release, vehicle anti-theft system (VATS), and some of the dash warning lights (seat belt, security, alarm). On European models it also controls the rear fog light.
If the grounds check out then the DRL module is the next place to look. It's the only device that handles both the front signals and the headlights. The module has internal (non-serviceable) relays that switch the front lamps between DRL and turn signal modes. It also controls the automatic headlights.
The BCM is not involved with the turn signals or headlights in any way (I can't figure out why so many people jump on the BCM bandwagon when they have any electrical problem). The BCM handles keyless entry, alarm system, retained accessory power (RAP), power locks, interior courtesy lights, hatch release, vehicle anti-theft system (VATS), and some of the dash warning lights (seat belt, security, alarm). On European models it also controls the rear fog light.
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05-08-2017, 07:31 PM
#8
Okay so new observation.
My passenger side turn signal wire itself is not getting any power when the turn signal OR hazard lights are on. I swapped LED bulbs with a known working bulb and it did not light up. Wiring still looks okay. I know the ground itself is good because the DRL still works. By this, I mean when I test the wire when the turn signal is on or the hazards are on... 0 Volts... no power at all. Is the sign of a bad DRL module? right now my driver side turn signal is working... any ideas? When you mentioned grounds by the radiator support, did you mean those two black wires that molt onto the frame just infront of the condenser on the frame that supports the Air LID?
My passenger side turn signal wire itself is not getting any power when the turn signal OR hazard lights are on. I swapped LED bulbs with a known working bulb and it did not light up. Wiring still looks okay. I know the ground itself is good because the DRL still works. By this, I mean when I test the wire when the turn signal is on or the hazards are on... 0 Volts... no power at all. Is the sign of a bad DRL module? right now my driver side turn signal is working... any ideas? When you mentioned grounds by the radiator support, did you mean those two black wires that molt onto the frame just infront of the condenser on the frame that supports the Air LID?
05-09-2017, 06:49 AM
#10
The DRL module has internal relays that switch between DRL and turn signal for each side. It's quite possible that those relays could be sticking and not switching to turn signal use. According to GM, the DRL module is not serviceable and must be replaced as a unit (part number 10407669). That's expensive - the best price I found for a new one is $250 - but you can get used ones on ebay for $30. Of course, if you're good with a soldering iron, you might be able to fix the one you've got.
05-09-2017, 06:16 PM
#11
The DRL module has internal relays that switch between DRL and turn signal for each side. It's quite possible that those relays could be sticking and not switching to turn signal use. According to GM, the DRL module is not serviceable and must be replaced as a unit (part number 10407669). That's expensive - the best price I found for a new one is $250 - but you can get used ones on ebay for $30. Of course, if you're good with a soldering iron, you might be able to fix the one you've got.
My soldering skills? not the best.. Managed to fix my BCM when my radio and windows were randomly going off and on and I was happy that I didnt mess anything up.. But that was a do or die and I was ready to buy a new BCM.. I guess.. if it came to it, I could TRY it..would make for a nice right up.. what would I need to do? purchase relays? any specific kind?
Now here's a really ..creative question.. Is it possible to just custom fab a box (or even gut the existing one) and install "servicable relays" from autozone or something inside of it mimicking the design of the DRL Module or are there system-boards inside that thing as well ? Are there any wiring schematics as to how that thing is configured / wired on the inside that I could just use? If its NOTHING BUT relays Im sure one could be fabricated for like half the cost, maybe even less. Even better part is..if it stops working you can just replace the failed relay instead of the whole thing..
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 05-09-2017 at 06:23 PM.
05-10-2017, 07:20 AM
#12
Yes, it is possible that a used DRL module could be bad but few of them fail so that is not really likely. Still, you're talking about a 15+ year old piece of equipment so it would probably be worth the extra $6.50 for the 6-month protection plan. That still leaves the total under $40 which is a lot cheaper than a new one.
The relays in the DRL module are probably replaceable since I doubt GM would have custom designed them - they would be off-the-shelf components. That said, they would not be plug-in relays like you would get at an auto parts store. They would be surface mount circuit board relays that you could get online or possibly at Radio Shack. You'd have to take it apart to determine the exact type.
The DRL module has a solid state circuit that controls the DRL/signal relay trigger coils as well as relays for the automatic headlights. You could build a basic substitute but it would involve a lot more than just relays and is probably not worth the effort unless you just wanted a project. You could also bypass it entirely if you just wanted turn signals and were willing to give up DRLs and automatic headlights (if you have a manual transmission you also give up inside hatch release although there is a way to bypass that as well).
Overall, I'd say the used module might be the best option.
The relays in the DRL module are probably replaceable since I doubt GM would have custom designed them - they would be off-the-shelf components. That said, they would not be plug-in relays like you would get at an auto parts store. They would be surface mount circuit board relays that you could get online or possibly at Radio Shack. You'd have to take it apart to determine the exact type.
The DRL module has a solid state circuit that controls the DRL/signal relay trigger coils as well as relays for the automatic headlights. You could build a basic substitute but it would involve a lot more than just relays and is probably not worth the effort unless you just wanted a project. You could also bypass it entirely if you just wanted turn signals and were willing to give up DRLs and automatic headlights (if you have a manual transmission you also give up inside hatch release although there is a way to bypass that as well).
Overall, I'd say the used module might be the best option.
05-11-2017, 01:15 AM
#13
Yes, it is possible that a used DRL module could be bad but few of them fail so that is not really likely. Still, you're talking about a 15+ year old piece of equipment so it would probably be worth the extra $6.50 for the 6-month protection plan. That still leaves the total under $40 which is a lot cheaper than a new one.
The relays in the DRL module are probably replaceable since I doubt GM would have custom designed them - they would be off-the-shelf components. That said, they would not be plug-in relays like you would get at an auto parts store. They would be surface mount circuit board relays that you could get online or possibly at Radio Shack. You'd have to take it apart to determine the exact type.
The DRL module has a solid state circuit that controls the DRL/signal relay trigger coils as well as relays for the automatic headlights. You could build a basic substitute but it would involve a lot more than just relays and is probably not worth the effort unless you just wanted a project. You could also bypass it entirely if you just wanted turn signals and were willing to give up DRLs and automatic headlights (if you have a manual transmission you also give up inside hatch release although there is a way to bypass that as well).
Overall, I'd say the used module might be the best option.
The relays in the DRL module are probably replaceable since I doubt GM would have custom designed them - they would be off-the-shelf components. That said, they would not be plug-in relays like you would get at an auto parts store. They would be surface mount circuit board relays that you could get online or possibly at Radio Shack. You'd have to take it apart to determine the exact type.
The DRL module has a solid state circuit that controls the DRL/signal relay trigger coils as well as relays for the automatic headlights. You could build a basic substitute but it would involve a lot more than just relays and is probably not worth the effort unless you just wanted a project. You could also bypass it entirely if you just wanted turn signals and were willing to give up DRLs and automatic headlights (if you have a manual transmission you also give up inside hatch release although there is a way to bypass that as well).
Overall, I'd say the used module might be the best option.
Will replacing the module require removing the whole dash? or will just the radio be enough?