Bolt-on SS vs 347 stroker GT
10-27-2008, 11:32 AM
#64
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10-27-2008, 11:57 AM
#65
I am. I'm building a 69 blocked and its going to be a 410W. Right now I'm just seeing what I can do with a 331. It will be quick but no where near fast enough to keep me entertained so as soon as the other motor is done I'm pulling out the 331 and selling it.
10-27-2008, 12:03 PM
#66
OP, good kill.
I agree that a well put together 347 or 302 can be a great performer. My buddy had a carbed 302 with heads/cam in his notchback (minor weight reduction) and that thing was able to pull my 6 speed bolt on LS1 Z28 from a roll. My car made 344 rwhp and 356 rwtq at the time.
I'm not sure what his exact combination, but I know that alot of Ford guys said that the heads/cam combo wouldn't work on a stock bottom end. Seemed to work ok to me as he pulled past me, lol. He used that combo on 2 motors, both stock 302's.
I agree that a well put together 347 or 302 can be a great performer. My buddy had a carbed 302 with heads/cam in his notchback (minor weight reduction) and that thing was able to pull my 6 speed bolt on LS1 Z28 from a roll. My car made 344 rwhp and 356 rwtq at the time.
I'm not sure what his exact combination, but I know that alot of Ford guys said that the heads/cam combo wouldn't work on a stock bottom end. Seemed to work ok to me as he pulled past me, lol. He used that combo on 2 motors, both stock 302's.
10-28-2008, 12:44 PM
#67
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i'm kinda in the same boat where the stock block is a definite limitation and I'm really thinking of starting on a 408 build this winter
10-29-2008, 01:08 AM
#68
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Dyno Untuned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIdmPttxQCc
10-29-2008, 11:59 AM
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going to have to disagree with that
extra weight doesnt offset the couple cubes. i think jay allen is about the only person ive seen w/ a real-world test of this, and the 347 was almost a second faster. everything was the same except the intake manifold(both victor juniors but slightly different due to change in deck height.
once you add cubes to the 351 it overcomes this difference.
extra weight doesnt offset the couple cubes. i think jay allen is about the only person ive seen w/ a real-world test of this, and the 347 was almost a second faster. everything was the same except the intake manifold(both victor juniors but slightly different due to change in deck height.
once you add cubes to the 351 it overcomes this difference.
10-29-2008, 04:35 PM
#71
The weight difference between the two is hardly worth talking about and definately will not make enough difference for a full second pass. In any case this "test" could never truely be accurate unless you take the car with the 347 and run it then right there in the lanes take the motor out and swap in the 351 and run the car again. You cant run the car with the 347 this week then sometime next week run it with the 351 and expect the same outcome (especially with both cars being naturally aspirated).
10-29-2008, 10:05 PM
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The weight difference between the two is hardly worth talking about and definately will not make enough difference for a full second pass. In any case this "test" could never truely be accurate unless you take the car with the 347 and run it then right there in the lanes take the motor out and swap in the 351 and run the car again. You cant run the car with the 347 this week then sometime next week run it with the 351 and expect the same outcome (especially with both cars being naturally aspirated).
never said it was a perfect test, but comparing the best of many runs w/ the same driver is about the best comparison ive seen.
10-29-2008, 10:44 PM
#73
15 years later and the mustang guys are still mismatching parts lol someone always "has to make this (whichever one) combo work" .. there's enough documented history as to what works and what doesn't, i can't understand how you get it wrong nowadays. no offense but why is it that many mustang owners seem to make this mistake way more often then GM guys (maybe i'm seeing it wrong?)
Example, in 93 i had an 86GT with a new 93 powertrain (stick) out of a wrecked one (or stolen, i don't remember
) and (lack of knowledge at the time) pulled the fuel injection off, slapped a holley 650 on it, had the intake manifold and stock heads ported by a speed shop (that knew what they were doing, but nothing crazy) and aded a B303 and roller rockers and it flat out beat almost every GT out there, even Vortech'd ones with GT40 heads, etc. wasn't by much but 1/2 car, sometimes dead even they couldn't pull on it.. always excuses and i wasn't even running LT's, it had stock manifolds and only 3.55's to their 3.73's... car went a best of 12.5 (don't remember the mph, think i was 104 maybe?) but man i tell you i was reading some of the races with GT's on this and other forums and it seems like guys are always outhinking themselves with these setups... K.I.S.S. works best man.. some things never change lol
Example, in 93 i had an 86GT with a new 93 powertrain (stick) out of a wrecked one (or stolen, i don't remember
) and (lack of knowledge at the time) pulled the fuel injection off, slapped a holley 650 on it, had the intake manifold and stock heads ported by a speed shop (that knew what they were doing, but nothing crazy) and aded a B303 and roller rockers and it flat out beat almost every GT out there, even Vortech'd ones with GT40 heads, etc. wasn't by much but 1/2 car, sometimes dead even they couldn't pull on it.. always excuses and i wasn't even running LT's, it had stock manifolds and only 3.55's to their 3.73's... car went a best of 12.5 (don't remember the mph, think i was 104 maybe?) but man i tell you i was reading some of the races with GT's on this and other forums and it seems like guys are always outhinking themselves with these setups... K.I.S.S. works best man.. some things never change lol Last edited by TonyGXP; 10-29-2008 at 10:53 PM.
10-30-2008, 02:28 PM
#74
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15 years later and the mustang guys are still mismatching parts lol someone always "has to make this (whichever one) combo work" .. there's enough documented history as to what works and what doesn't, i can't understand how you get it wrong nowadays. no offense but why is it that many mustang owners seem to make this mistake way more often then GM guys (maybe i'm seeing it wrong?)
Example, in 93 i had an 86GT with a new 93 powertrain (stick) out of a wrecked one (or stolen, i don't remember ) and (lack of knowledge at the time) pulled the fuel injection off, slapped a holley 650 on it, had the intake manifold and stock heads ported by a speed shop (that knew what they were doing, but nothing crazy) and aded a B303 and roller rockers and it flat out beat almost every GT out there, even Vortech'd ones with GT40 heads, etc. wasn't by much but 1/2 car, sometimes dead even they couldn't pull on it.. always excuses and i wasn't even running LT's, it had stock manifolds and only 3.55's to their 3.73's... car went a best of 12.5 (don't remember the mph, think i was 104 maybe?) but man i tell you i was reading some of the races with GT's on this and other forums and it seems like guys are always outhinking themselves with these setups... K.I.S.S. works best man.. some things never change lol
Example, in 93 i had an 86GT with a new 93 powertrain (stick) out of a wrecked one (or stolen, i don't remember
) and (lack of knowledge at the time) pulled the fuel injection off, slapped a holley 650 on it, had the intake manifold and stock heads ported by a speed shop (that knew what they were doing, but nothing crazy) and aded a B303 and roller rockers and it flat out beat almost every GT out there, even Vortech'd ones with GT40 heads, etc. wasn't by much but 1/2 car, sometimes dead even they couldn't pull on it.. always excuses and i wasn't even running LT's, it had stock manifolds and only 3.55's to their 3.73's... car went a best of 12.5 (don't remember the mph, think i was 104 maybe?) but man i tell you i was reading some of the races with GT's on this and other forums and it seems like guys are always outhinking themselves with these setups... K.I.S.S. works best man.. some things never change lol
10-30-2008, 11:34 PM
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15 years later and the mustang guys are still mismatching parts lol someone always "has to make this (whichever one) combo work" .. there's enough documented history as to what works and what doesn't, i can't understand how you get it wrong nowadays. no offense but why is it that many mustang owners seem to make this mistake way more often then GM guys (maybe i'm seeing it wrong?)
on another forum right there theres someone w/ a 94/95 trying to make it into the 11s w/ 19lb injectors using a vortech
10-31-2008, 07:13 AM
#76
Ok, I have to chime in now too.
Now, correct me if I am wrong please. Didn't ford release the new 302 boss block. Versus their traditional sportman 302 block that's been out forever it seems.
Now isn't the new motor capable of 400+ hp off the new boss 302 base block with the right heads, etc. Not to mention what's capable of with a stroker kit.
I read about this block being put into the new mustangs soon.
From everything I read this is a big improvement compared to the original sportman 302 block.
it's kinda of like what gm did by bringing out a new lsx block for heavy builders.
edit:
Ok, did a little research, the boss 302 block;
it can be stroked to 363ci which is impressive. http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co.../photo_03.html
capable of 900hp at the crank, wow.
This block is pretty stout from what I read about it.
I'll see what else I can find out.
Now, correct me if I am wrong please. Didn't ford release the new 302 boss block. Versus their traditional sportman 302 block that's been out forever it seems.
Now isn't the new motor capable of 400+ hp off the new boss 302 base block with the right heads, etc. Not to mention what's capable of with a stroker kit.
I read about this block being put into the new mustangs soon.
From everything I read this is a big improvement compared to the original sportman 302 block.
it's kinda of like what gm did by bringing out a new lsx block for heavy builders.
edit:
Ok, did a little research, the boss 302 block;
it can be stroked to 363ci which is impressive. http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co.../photo_03.html
capable of 900hp at the crank, wow.
This block is pretty stout from what I read about it.
I'll see what else I can find out.
Last edited by wickedwarlock; 10-31-2008 at 07:27 AM.
10-31-2008, 03:10 PM
#78
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Ok, I have to chime in now too.
Now, correct me if I am wrong please. Didn't ford release the new 302 boss block. Versus their traditional sportman 302 block that's been out forever it seems.
Now isn't the new motor capable of 400+ hp off the new boss 302 base block with the right heads, etc. Not to mention what's capable of with a stroker kit.
I read about this block being put into the new mustangs soon.
From everything I read this is a big improvement compared to the original sportman 302 block.
it's kinda of like what gm did by bringing out a new lsx block for heavy builders.
edit:
Ok, did a little research, the boss 302 block;
it can be stroked to 363ci which is impressive. http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co.../photo_03.html
capable of 900hp at the crank, wow.
This block is pretty stout from what I read about it.
I'll see what else I can find out.
Now, correct me if I am wrong please. Didn't ford release the new 302 boss block. Versus their traditional sportman 302 block that's been out forever it seems.
Now isn't the new motor capable of 400+ hp off the new boss 302 base block with the right heads, etc. Not to mention what's capable of with a stroker kit.
I read about this block being put into the new mustangs soon.
From everything I read this is a big improvement compared to the original sportman 302 block.
it's kinda of like what gm did by bringing out a new lsx block for heavy builders.
edit:
Ok, did a little research, the boss 302 block;
it can be stroked to 363ci which is impressive. http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co.../photo_03.html
capable of 900hp at the crank, wow.
This block is pretty stout from what I read about it.
I'll see what else I can find out.
Everyone always boasts about production power/features, then the accounting dpt. gets ahold of it. The S197 was supposed to have 400hp as well.......and then they cut it back to 350,. then release it with 300. Two more years still awaits before we know for certain what ford does.
My guess.....it'll be a 5.0 modular pushing 350. No boss name, and no 400hp. But, that's just me.
10-31-2008, 06:55 PM
#79
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Also, I'll believe that 5.0 400hp setup in 2011 when I see it.
Everyone always boasts about production power/features, then the accounting dpt. gets ahold of it. The S197 was supposed to have 400hp as well.......and then they cut it back to 350,. then release it with 300. Two more years still awaits before we know for certain what ford does.
Everyone always boasts about production power/features, then the accounting dpt. gets ahold of it. The S197 was supposed to have 400hp as well.......and then they cut it back to 350,. then release it with 300. Two more years still awaits before we know for certain what ford does.
theres a big difference between 2010/11 and 2005
2005 there was no competition for the mustang for several years previous and no competition in sight for the next half decade.
when you have no competition in a segment for 10 years there is no reason to put all your cards on the table or push the envelope. as it is the S197 has been one of the most successful redesigns in history.
