myk

iTrader: (4)

Shoulda laid the "smack down" on their stock V8's, too...

Ke^in

With those mods, probably any v8 stang without significant mods at the time.

19BLACKBIRD99

gto might weigh 3800 vettes have never weighed that haha

dgr00s

Corvette owners never try and GTO's can only beat V6's. Obviously not a real race.

Sticks n Stones

Gotta agree with Lemons: With my full boltons in my sig, I raced a 99 FRC C5 that was full boltons +3.90 gears +LS2 heads and from a dig it went like this: I took a fender thru 1st, lost that fender and gave him a fender at the shift (trans shifts too hard for racing in 38deg conditions: spins bad every shift) and pulled even at the top of 2nd, lost a fender again at the spinning 2/3 shift and pulled even yet again before having to let up around 100mph. There is no doubt in my mind that there was no point after 100mph where he would have pulled on me- with 3.90 gearing, no doubt 6th gear was coming up fast for him and thats a death knell for you stick shift guys.

Edit: before any of you even think of saying that the vette driver needs a "driver mod": dude was no lift shifting to the point that I never even noticed him shifting: 4 roll races and 1 dig, he drove nearly flawlessly while I spun and floundered with my too-hard shifting trans sending me sideways at each shift- even when I shifted at part throttle or early. He also has alot of track and street racing experience. He won all roll races... will run him again in warmer weather soon enough to see how we match up when I'm not fighting nasty spinning gear changes.

Edit 2:For LS2 GTO A4 owners: DO NOT get more than 50% TM removed when you get a aftermarket trans module unless you plan on running slicks and only driving in good weather on the street! I'm at 75% and about ready to put the stock ECM back in for non-summer driving.

Any bolt on only C5's in the Seattle area want to find out? Somebody has to know somebody on another board etc. that has a C5 in the Western Washington area- It's finally above freezing but of course its now raining... ?monday night looks possible, or wendesday? Have them PM me and we can set it up.

Deuuuce

So two full bolt-on cars, your 05 A4 and his FRC C5 is a driver's race. Add 3.90 gears for him AND heads (detrimental with no cam?).

Anyway, more telling is your losses from a roll - how bad were they?

Sticks n Stones

The LS2 heads/intake/tune actually gave him 40-sumthing rwhp when he dyno'd it. With his LS1 head setup he ran 11.1 on nitrous/ 12.2 on motor on Hoosier slicks (lucky for me he wasnt rolling out on those ) (Yes, I know I aint a low 12 or high 11 car YET) I believe he is pulling my leg on not having the LS2 cam - but until he admits it I'll let it be. (6500rpm shifts on a stock LS1 cam??) Oh yeah, there where two people in his car, figure 120 pounds heavier than my weight (I'm a big, beer bellied bastard).

Rolls were from 20-30mph to 100'ish except the dig race which went to maybe 120mph: 1st gear terrritory, though it was that damned 1-2 shift that actually killed me. My tires are "Extreme Performance Summer Only" and as you would guess have noticeably better traction when its at or above 40 degrees F: above 50 deg and they stick like glue. Tried the whole ball of wax- short shifting, letting up right before it shifts, letting up as it shifts, etc. but they spun like I was on glass forcing me to go to 1/2 throttle and let them catch up to themselves. He usually pulled 1-2 cars every spinning episode. I did do one last run against him from 35mph where it couldnt downshift (hated A4 deadspot) but he had a good 3 cars on me before I could flintstone it to 5,000+rpms area where my real power resides.

Thats the first time I tried to race in this damned cold weather from that low a speed and it was frustrating as hell: I'll just stick to 40+ deg from now on! Though I did pull him from a dig, even with spinning the 1-2 shift again.

caveat: while going over my car afterwards to try and figure out why all of a sudden it wanted to pitch sideways every time it spun the tires I discovered my passenger tire was at or below 15psi- had a nail in it. BUT he was running KDW's and had his own traction issues- though with 295 width tires it appeared his overall traction was equivelant to my 245 width stickier tires.

Deuuuce

So after all that, what kind of trap speeds is he hitting? He should be pulling on you from a roll I would think but comparisons are tough if you're both spinning.

Sticks n Stones

He never said what his trap was, though he did mention how huge a difference his slicks were to his plain jane KDW street tires. I had assumed from the git-go that I was gonna lose, but I figured with him having a passenger and running those tires that I would stick with him or even take him down low,, with him yarding me up top. Instead it was more of a dead even accelleration contest when I wasn't spinning.

Sad part is I'm pretty damn sure once the weather warms up and we both get alot better traction all I'm gonna see are his tail lights: those 3.90's, his shifting, and what should be near identical rwhp all point to a very decisive loss on my part.

And if he runs his cheater slicks and/or uses the N20... I probably won't even run him because it would be a waste of gas on his part. Until I get the heads/cam/new tune on at least.

Hell, even then: even with me hitting my 450rwhp target with that fat LS3 torque curve I'll still need a stall and DR's to have a chance against him when he's in kill mode!

Just thought our quick unofficial (non ladderboard) hookup was a very interesting outcome that shocked both of us (or maybe just me?) on how close it was when I expected it to be a whipping. Which, of course, is why we race in the real world instead of just internet bench racing.

Kurtomac

iTrader: (5)

HAHA OP just made a Edmunds reference on LS1Tech

19BLACKBIRD99

GTOs are COWS mann too heavy

Poolshark1321

iTrader: (6)

They are not that heavy honeslty...

3700 for M6 without driver...

Fbody weighs like 3400-3500

New Camaro weighs 3900 for the M6... a little more for Auto (without driver)

I am very confident my 06 GTO will pull the Fbody and C5 up top. The C5 Z06 tends to pull on the LS2 slightly on the top end. Low 13's to 13.0 are pretty common with a good driver in the LS2 GTO. There are maybe 3 or less recorded cases of 12.9's stock... but track conditions were perfect and the driver was very experienced.

When you say the GTO is a cow just think about how much weight your talking about. A small 200-300 lbs weight difference is the least of your worries when going up against a modded GTO (or a random one on the street that might be modded).

The LS2 is choked from the factory with the LS2 intake manifold. It responds very well to just a CAI, Headers, Exhaust, ported stock TB and Intake manifold. Usually getting close to 400 at the ground ( 370-390) with those mods. There are some problems with the wheel hop and it can take some getting used to. You can really cut it down though with just some rear springs, drag bags and decent sticky tires. Rear Shocks, Harrop Diff Cover and a few bushings on top of the springs, drag bags and tires will almost completely eliminate it. You can easily get some 275's on the rear end with just cutting or rolling the fenders.

A built port and polished set of L92's, cam and tune on the LS2 will get you into the high 400's to the ground. I just really think the LS2 GTO (or even LS1) is underestimated and not felt as a threat.

C6 LS2 W/L92s...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...p-446rwtq.html

SLP's Port and polished L92 setup for the ls2 GTO...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEtjV5DLtes

Crazy insanely long L92/L76 thread on GTO's...
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286447

This is pretty close to the setup I am working on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aORkvjwg0ok

Ke^in

300 lbs...

If you have a car rated 200hp weighing 3300 and another 200hp car weighing 3600, I would say that 300lbs would make a big difference. It would be as if the 3600 lost about 20hp?

I am asking, not stating.

jph2275

15109774

Here are the last 8, sorry i just saw this and would love to know


What gears would be recommended on a DD car? Gears will be its first mod. My camaro had 3.23 i believe and that worked great

necrocannibal

iTrader: (5)

Says the guy with a vert Ws6 thats just about as heavy.


Another thing you guys I think are missing is the manual tranny is the M12 out of the Z06 with more aggressive gearing.

Sticks n Stones

huh, I didn't know that. How much stouter is the M12 versus the LS1 Fbody 6spd?

CoolAid

Much ricer math this thread has.

Heres some to stir the ****: My car weighs 3,590 with 5 gal of fuel and no other weight reduction other than full exhaust and a smaller converter. Certified scale. With me in its 3,770. Yep. Thats right. Full metal, all accessory, full interior, A4 Goat under 3,600 pounds.

Also know this: For some WEIRD reason modern GTOs attend to attract office guy non-car guy dorks. Looks? Model year? I dunno. Either way 90% of GTO owners I've met in real life cant launch for ****, cant race for ****, cant put a combo together for ****, will believe anything a net noob tells them about an engine/car/specs whatever, run 14s stock, run mid 12s with full H/C/I/E....etc.

It gives the car a bad name. Not many GTOs in racing vids on the net either, and the ones that do end up in them are usually driven by the above described. Some of the faster GTOs out there are track only cars, meaning that the guys that do great things with them dont race on the street and dont end up in videos, they keep it on the track. Most of the Kill Section GTOs on this board and over at the Goat site are all bolt-on cars, maybe an occasional baby-mid sized cam.

My point here is its the drivers/builders, not the cars. Look at my sig. Just full exhaust, intake, tune and DRs and Im in the 12.2s with 1/8th times that take an Fbody a cam & more to touch, not to mention I can cut consistent SUB 1.8 60fts ON THE STREET with average track 60s in the 1.70-1.75s. This is in 1,580 DA as well. Imagine if I went to ATCO and got some mine shaft air? Stock LS2 C6s are running 12.7-12.8 with great drivers in this DA and I've seen stock LS3 C6s in my area, in the same DA (so apples to apples) run 12.3-12.4 with great drivers and great launch.


Still think Goats are "too heavy to do ****"? If someone told you a bolton/stall LS2 GTO took out a stock LS3 Vette would you believe it? How bout now? There are some of us out here who actually know what we are doing with these cars. Smart racers dont under estimate any car or any combo. The empty can rattles the most. All those who over-bench race and decide races by C&D mag numbers are in the dark and help fog this hobby with a putrid stink of ignorance.

Ke^in

I gotta agree here. I used to think LS1 GTOs were slow (well compared to my slow car) because I kept beating a guy that had just gotten one. He told me he ran "13.4s" in it. I blew him away all 3 times.

Then he said to me "I don't know why I can't hook.. .my traction control was on at all times"

:facepalmplantavatardontwork:


BTW I loved this quote

I gotta give props to people on internet boards that can actually put a cohesive sentence together, and make it worth reading at the same time.

Sticks n Stones

Hey Cool Aid, can I have a drink? Thats one heck of a pissed off but eloquently phrased sentence. haha I'm afraid I'm gonna have to utilize part of that for my signature now:
"The empty can rattles the most." So that whenever someone is annoying me (or I'm annoying one of you- it cuts both ways I guess) I just type "Rattle Rattle".

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I agreed with everything but this..