Bitemark46

No disrepect to the LSx (I used to own one) but when starting out with a small square motor, to run a number makes it twice as hard. You guys just don't have to work as hard. An engine is an air pump. Bigger the pump, the more air is moved. So us 4.6 guys are behind the 8 ball from the get go.

The fastest SI LSx runs 10.60's I believe. Closest SI 4.6 to that is 11.16. Don't know the weights but you can clearly see that the lack of cubes is a huge factor. I don't care how many cams and valves you throw at it. It won't move enough air to make up for the difference.

-Mark

02 wife

I can back it up to you! Thats no problem.

2002CamaroSS1982

iTrader: (12)

Ahhh I was waiting for this...this is the typical fools argument, the only thing that matters is you sit there bashing what other people have and talk like your LS1 that runs 11.90s is some diamond in the rough. There is a difference between **** talking in good nature and then just being a fool, i'll let everyone decide which category your arguments usually fall into.

First of all, all passes were made on a street legal drag radial, not a slick, second of all the car has/had a full tubular suspension, lighter wheels and racing seats, car is by no means gutted, so what if an auto has been swapped in? Oh and OH NO nitrous NO FAIR....this car can still be driven on long trips and is street legal so I don't see the point of your ridiculous argument.

The other typical jack *** argument is "oh well you run a 150 shot on your car, no fair, cheating, or let me put nitrous on my car" I hate when people do this.....its not cheating, I did it so that I could run with termis, vettes, and other LS1's. If you are going to run your mouth to power adder cars be sure you can take them with your current set up or do a power adder yourself. So yes all else equal your LS1 and my cobra with the exact same mods, weight, drivers, etc 346 ci > 281 ci congrats, good luck on finding two cars that are EXACTLY =. So I guess the point of my story is run what you brung or shut up.

2002CamaroSS1982

iTrader: (12)

there are N/A Cobra's in the 10's, granted not as prevalent as a LSx's they are out there.

On the definition of turd....anyone that would consider a solid 11 or 12 second street car a turd needs some help.

I think the only turd in this equation is the driver of the Cobra lol, probably either launched to high or low, short shifted, any number of variables that allowed this "bus lengths" win.

Case in point, last night my buddy and I were out in his full bolt on Mach with a good DR and he can drive. We happened to come upon a GT500 with a 20 something cocky douche in the drivers seat asked him if he wanted to run em and he said "dude this is a GT 500", long story short, the douche launched at 7k he said twice on the factory street tires and pretty obvious that my buddy mopped him up. With a great driver this shouldn't have happened. Driver makes a huge difference in a dig race.

RON 95ZR1

I've tried a search, to no avail. Care too show me a few examples (N/A 10-second Cobra(s) that is). I assume you've done your research on this and know where I can find a few examples of a legitimate street car. I know a 4v can run 10's N/A, but to what extreme? Just asking because I just don't see 10-second all motor Cobra's running around, and i've been around for a while. I'm seriously curious as to know what it takes to make a all motor 4v go 10's in a street car, that would be an interesting build for me.

Oh, and no gutted down race car examples please.

RON 95ZR1

I agree with you 100% on the displacement issue.

I thought the fastest bolt-on record was set by Bob Cosby at 11.59 @ 117? I know the race weight of that car was 3180 lbs when he ran that. Has someone gone faster since? Funny how many of the so-called bolt-on 4.6's aren't truly bolt-on cars, atleast not by my standards! Some have been taken apart, have ported intakes and such, but still considered bolt-ons because they retain the stock heads and cams. Now that's interesting.

2002CamaroSS1982

iTrader: (12)

Sure, no problem give me some time I am at work so can't really spend time doing a search here. Like I said, they are few and far between the main problem being the fact that they are so damn expensive to build, plus the guys that do usually keep their combo's on the down low. To me there are a couple of different ways that you can probably get there.

Fully ported heads, intake
Cams
Possibly more cubes
Weight reduction - my definition of a street car is anything that can be driven on the street and taken on a nice Sunday drive reasonably, so full tubular suspension, lighter wheels, racing seats, rear seat delete, etc, but still intented for street use.
GEAR! 4.30-4.56
Someone who can drive the **** out of it but for most people a built auto would probably be the choice

Now if you are talking swap, I would go all out with the weight reduction, gear, driver, and swap a 5.4 DOHC motor with fully ported heads, intake, and cams into an SN95 Cobra and have a 10 second slip all day with good streetability.

Like I said, people know how to get there the main deterrent is money, it takes alot of money to get these things into the 10's N/A.

Main reason I sold mine is the 4V was getting pretty damn expensive and I already had my LS1....given my propensity to spend money on other things as well, I decided on a H/C/I + full bolt on LS1 with a 100 shot to put me nicely into the 10's

2002CamaroSS1982

iTrader: (12)

Oh yeah, one car I am almost 100% sure that is in the 10's N/A is a white 99 I can't remember the name I think he is NASVT or something like that over on svtperformance.com....nasty set up he has, although he doesn't share it I don't think

RON 95ZR1

Most of the 10-sec N/A cars have curb weights around 3,000 lbs with the driver. Such things like A/C delete, 90/10 drag shocks, 4.56 or shorter gears among other things that I wouldn't necessarily wan't in my "street" car. But yeah like you said, anything that can be driven on the street can be considered that I guess. I was speaking more along the lines of something pretty close to full weight, a/c and full interior.

Bitemark46

Bob ran that number IIRC in NMRA FS trim. Which actually is farther from a true bolt-on car than what most think. That class is allowed to have a aftermarket bottom end and a valve job but must retain OEM cams and intake and no porting with a minimum weight of 3200lbs.

Angus66 is a guy on a mach1 site that ran his Mach1 to 11.16@120. Truely a bolt-on car. It still retained the stock longblock. Yes it had weight reduction done. Probably around 3000-3100 w/ driver. But you got to do what ya go to do when you only make sub 350rwhp.

Everybody's opinion of what a bolt-on car is different. To me as long as you retain the stock heads, cams, and bottom end its a stock longblock bolt-on car.

-Mark

RON 95ZR1

I think your thinking of 'JIMS SVT'. He held the NA 4.6 bolt-on record for a while before Bob Cosby took it from him. I know he later added cams and ported B heads and dipped into the 10's.

RON 95ZR1

I'm aware of this, hence my earlier post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron 95ZR1

Funny how many of the so-called bolt-on 4.6's aren't truly bolt-on cars, atleast not by my standards! Some have been taken apart, have ported intakes and such, but still considered bolt-ons because they retain the stock heads and cams. Now that's interesting.

I know Bob's car had pistons, rods, and intake at the time.


Now that's moving.

I agree that is the definition of a true bolt-on car.

ponygt65

That is Carlos. Although he has had some serious nasty builds, he's not stock CID, let alone long block. Cool guy too.
IIRC, He is Sub 320RWHP.

Oh, and he's not the only mach owner to run low mid 11s with the stock long block.

2002CamaroSS1982

iTrader: (12)

That is a much taller order to pull off, street car is a street car to me, plus with the 4:30's I could cruise around town at 30-35 very comfortably in 4th gear . Get on the highway running 70 with mufflers dumped and turning 2900ish rpms got a little bit on the drony side but it was ok..

[QUOTE=ponygt65;13291198]That is Carlos. Although he has had some serious nasty builds, he's not stock CID, let alone long block. Cool guy too.

Ok that might be the guy I am thinking of.

Chris Scott

Mark said it best. We don't have the displacement you guys have...and its more expensive to mod..so we are definitely behind you guys...but that doesn't mean there arent exceptions. If I had my hands on a ls1 I probably would be sitting on a 500rwhp motor instead of 380. But to me it is more fun trying to find power and speed through a small motor. It's all for the enjoyment of the hobby..I am a young kid and learning a lot with it.