stock 510 HP Viper vs stock 436 HP Vette
12-20-2010, 01:14 PM
#21
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However, just quickly popping through the rules... I did find this one.
9. The 'Street Racing & Kill Stories' section is available for you to post your street racing kills only. All other posts are subject to being locked (i.e. "I killed a deer with my car.")
Last edited by Gaunt; 12-20-2010 at 02:35 PM.
12-20-2010, 02:17 PM
#22
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Damn Cybergrey! where did you and your 3rd gen come from? that thing is cleeeean! got numbers?
Yeah i agree. member cars only in these threads. keeps it from being a 3 hour youtube session .
i still dont know how i stay on for so long...i say to myself "ok this vid and then the next one and going to bed." then something cool pops up in the sidebar. IM LOSING SLEEP!!!
lol
Yeah i agree. member cars only in these threads. keeps it from being a 3 hour youtube session .
i still dont know how i stay on for so long...i say to myself "ok this vid and then the next one and going to bed." then something cool pops up in the sidebar. IM LOSING SLEEP!!!
lol
12-20-2010, 07:16 PM
#24
Launching!
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Funny I see a lot of folks speak this non-sense. The LS2 C6 was intended to be a substantial improvement over it's predecessor, the base model C5, and lived up to every bit of that goal. 400hp (up 50 from the previous base Corvette), mid 12's @ 114-115 in the quarter-mile (about a half second quicker than the C5 Z51), top speed of 186mph, and a MSRP of $43,780 which was actually down from 2004! I fail to see what the "let down" is with that? 
Now on the other hand the 2006 Dodge Viper, having a massive 505-cubic inch V10 and a sticker of about $81k, yet got DESTROYED by GM's less expensive, 427ci V8 powered Corvette Z06, was a real let down imo.
Now on the other hand the 2006 Dodge Viper, having a massive 505-cubic inch V10 and a sticker of about $81k, yet got DESTROYED by GM's less expensive, 427ci V8 powered Corvette Z06, was a real let down imo.
Sorry man...I had a brand new C5 and drag raced it over 1000 times at the local strip. The LS2 vettes were very very very disapointing....
Consider that the LS1 C5 came out in 1997 and ran till 2004. Thats SEVEN YEARS they had to improve the car. When I say the first specs of 12.6 at 113 mph I was very hopeful. But then a strange trend developed were all the magazines were getting 12.8-13.2 at 108-111 mph...
Then I saw it first hand at the drag strip. Were my stock C5 was running 13.5 at 104 mph the new 2005 LS2's couldnt do better than 13.2 at 107..
Then it was even verified on my local dyno were I hit 299 rwhp stock the LS2 vettes were hitting 330-335 rwhp...
Im sorry....But 3 mph faster after 7 years is a big let down to me. Their was much speculation that they were actually much faster but the chevy put so many limits on the pcm and touque managemnt and thats why they werent that fast..Regardless of the why's the reality is that most people ran low 13'ss in the LS2 vettes. It was really a slap in the face.
The LS3 on the other hand seems to dyno a bonafied 370 rwhp and it actually runs the numbers that its rwhp suggest it should. Quite a few stock LS3's have gotten into the 117-120 mph range. Thats what Im talking about and thats what I expected when the LS2's came out. After all more than a few stock C5's got into the 110-112 mph range.
If you love your car then you love it. But as a vette owner my self who was thinking about getting a LS2 till I saw they were slow and who was defiently getting a c6Z06 (till the dealers tried to charge me 20k over sticker)
The LS3 is simply amazeing for the money and finally gives the base vette respect again. No one feared the base c5 in the 2000's..It was the C5Z06 that they feared. And likewise no one feared the C6 LS2...Again it was in the middle of the base c5 and C5Z06. But with the LS3 I heard stock GTR guys get a lil worried and 03 cobra oners think of modding. It demands respect.
Even for me if my viper was stock and they said..Hey so and so in a full bolt on LS2 wants to race you...Quick ricer math in my head would say..HMMMM..3290 pounds and 385 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp...naaaaaa..What ever hardly worth raceing..
Same senario but so in so in a full bolt on LS3 wants to race you...Ricer math computes...3290 pounds and 420 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp..damn he could get me this is gonna be good..
Thats just the reality...If I was in a base C6 it would be an LS3 no questions asked..LS3 or C5Z06 for me all day over the LS2
12-20-2010, 07:19 PM
#25
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Sorry man...I had a brand new C5 and drag raced it over 1000 times at the locval strip. The LS2 vettes were very very very disapointing....
Consider that the LS1 C5 came out in 1997 and ran till 2007. Thats SEVEN YEARS they had to improve the car. When I say the first specs of 12.6 at 113 mph I was very hopeful. But then a strange trend developed were all the magazines were getting 12.8-13.2 at 108-111 mph...
Then I saw it first hand at the drag strip. Were my stock C5 was running 13.5 at 104 mph the new 2005 LS2's couldnt do better than 13.2 at 107..
Then it was even verified on my local dyno were I hit 299 rwhp stock the LS2 vettes were hitting 330-335 rwhp...
Im sorry....But 3 mph faster after 7 years is a big let down to me. Their was much speculation that they were actually much faster but the chevy put so many limits on the pcm and touque managemnt and thats why they werent that fast..Regardless of the why's the reality is that most people ran low 13'ss in the LS2 vettes. It was really a slap in the face.
The LS3 on the other hand seems to dyno a bonafied 370 rwhp and it actually runs the numbers that its rwhp suggest it should. Quite a few stock LS3's have gotten into the 117-120 mph range. Thats what Im talking about and thats what I expected when the LS2's came out. After all more than a few stock C5's got into the 110-112 mph range.
If you love your car then you love it. But as a vette owner my self who was thinking about getting a LS2 till I saw they were slow and who was defiently getting a c6Z06 (till the dealers tried to charge me 20k over sticker)
The LS3 is simply amazeing for the money and finally gives the base vette respect again. No one feared the base c5 in the 2000's..It was the C5Z06 that they feared. And likewise no one feared the C6 LS2...Again it was in the middle of the base c5 and C5Z06. But with the LS3 I heard stock GTR guys get a lil worried and 03 cobra oners think of modding. It demands respect.
Even for me if my viper was stock and they said..Hey so and so in a full bolt on LS2 wants to race you...Quick ricer math in my head would say..HMMMM..3290 pounds and 385 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp...naaaaaa..What ever hardly worth raceing..
Same senario but so in so in a full bolt on LS3 wants to race you...Ricer math computes...3290 pounds and 420 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp..damn he could get me this is gonna be good..
Thats just the reality...If I was in a base C6 it would be an LS3 no questions asked..LS3 or C5Z06 for me all day over the LS2
Consider that the LS1 C5 came out in 1997 and ran till 2007. Thats SEVEN YEARS they had to improve the car. When I say the first specs of 12.6 at 113 mph I was very hopeful. But then a strange trend developed were all the magazines were getting 12.8-13.2 at 108-111 mph...
Then I saw it first hand at the drag strip. Were my stock C5 was running 13.5 at 104 mph the new 2005 LS2's couldnt do better than 13.2 at 107..
Then it was even verified on my local dyno were I hit 299 rwhp stock the LS2 vettes were hitting 330-335 rwhp...
Im sorry....But 3 mph faster after 7 years is a big let down to me. Their was much speculation that they were actually much faster but the chevy put so many limits on the pcm and touque managemnt and thats why they werent that fast..Regardless of the why's the reality is that most people ran low 13'ss in the LS2 vettes. It was really a slap in the face.
The LS3 on the other hand seems to dyno a bonafied 370 rwhp and it actually runs the numbers that its rwhp suggest it should. Quite a few stock LS3's have gotten into the 117-120 mph range. Thats what Im talking about and thats what I expected when the LS2's came out. After all more than a few stock C5's got into the 110-112 mph range.
If you love your car then you love it. But as a vette owner my self who was thinking about getting a LS2 till I saw they were slow and who was defiently getting a c6Z06 (till the dealers tried to charge me 20k over sticker)
The LS3 is simply amazeing for the money and finally gives the base vette respect again. No one feared the base c5 in the 2000's..It was the C5Z06 that they feared. And likewise no one feared the C6 LS2...Again it was in the middle of the base c5 and C5Z06. But with the LS3 I heard stock GTR guys get a lil worried and 03 cobra oners think of modding. It demands respect.
Even for me if my viper was stock and they said..Hey so and so in a full bolt on LS2 wants to race you...Quick ricer math in my head would say..HMMMM..3290 pounds and 385 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp...naaaaaa..What ever hardly worth raceing..
Same senario but so in so in a full bolt on LS3 wants to race you...Ricer math computes...3290 pounds and 420 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp..damn he could get me this is gonna be good..
Thats just the reality...If I was in a base C6 it would be an LS3 no questions asked..LS3 or C5Z06 for me all day over the LS2
12-20-2010, 07:42 PM
#27
Who here has run their LS2 Vette stock? I have to agree I never saw them run mid to low 12s and trap 114-116MPH without mods but that doesn't mean they didn't. Just curious what people ran with theirs. I know with bolt ons(stock cam and intake were not ideal) and cam they run like raped apes without even touching the heads....
12-20-2010, 07:59 PM
#28
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But even stock ppl have trapped 114-115. It is rare and has to be to be done with a manual in great air and a great driver. If all those fall into place, that 114-115mph trap is definitely attainable.
Now as far as the auto's, the computer tune/ shift tune reallly hold those stock ls2s back! Ive seen AUTO stock ls2's trap as low as 106 but that was in terrible race conditions and the DA was shitty that day. Everything plays a factor.
12-20-2010, 09:55 PM
#29
Launching!
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Sorry man...I had a brand new C5 and drag raced it over 1000 times at the local strip. The LS2 vettes were very very very disapointing....
Consider that the LS1 C5 came out in 1997 and ran till 2004. Thats SEVEN YEARS they had to improve the car. When I say the first specs of 12.6 at 113 mph I was very hopeful. But then a strange trend developed were all the magazines were getting 12.8-13.2 at 108-111 mph...
Then I saw it first hand at the drag strip. Were my stock C5 was running 13.5 at 104 mph the new 2005 LS2's couldnt do better than 13.2 at 107..
Then it was even verified on my local dyno were I hit 299 rwhp stock the LS2 vettes were hitting 330-335 rwhp...
Im sorry....But 3 mph faster after 7 years is a big let down to me. Their was much speculation that they were actually much faster but the chevy put so many limits on the pcm and touque managemnt and thats why they werent that fast..Regardless of the why's the reality is that most people ran low 13'ss in the LS2 vettes. It was really a slap in the face.
The LS3 on the other hand seems to dyno a bonafied 370 rwhp and it actually runs the numbers that its rwhp suggest it should. Quite a few stock LS3's have gotten into the 117-120 mph range. Thats what Im talking about and thats what I expected when the LS2's came out. After all more than a few stock C5's got into the 110-112 mph range.
If you love your car then you love it. But as a vette owner my self who was thinking about getting a LS2 till I saw they were slow and who was defiently getting a c6Z06 (till the dealers tried to charge me 20k over sticker)
The LS3 is simply amazeing for the money and finally gives the base vette respect again. No one feared the base c5 in the 2000's..It was the C5Z06 that they feared. And likewise no one feared the C6 LS2...Again it was in the middle of the base c5 and C5Z06. But with the LS3 I heard stock GTR guys get a lil worried and 03 cobra oners think of modding. It demands respect.
Even for me if my viper was stock and they said..Hey so and so in a full bolt on LS2 wants to race you...Quick ricer math in my head would say..HMMMM..3290 pounds and 385 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp...naaaaaa..What ever hardly worth raceing..
Same senario but so in so in a full bolt on LS3 wants to race you...Ricer math computes...3290 pounds and 420 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp..damn he could get me this is gonna be good..
Thats just the reality...If I was in a base C6 it would be an LS3 no questions asked..LS3 or C5Z06 for me all day over the LS2
Consider that the LS1 C5 came out in 1997 and ran till 2004. Thats SEVEN YEARS they had to improve the car. When I say the first specs of 12.6 at 113 mph I was very hopeful. But then a strange trend developed were all the magazines were getting 12.8-13.2 at 108-111 mph...
Then I saw it first hand at the drag strip. Were my stock C5 was running 13.5 at 104 mph the new 2005 LS2's couldnt do better than 13.2 at 107..
Then it was even verified on my local dyno were I hit 299 rwhp stock the LS2 vettes were hitting 330-335 rwhp...
Im sorry....But 3 mph faster after 7 years is a big let down to me. Their was much speculation that they were actually much faster but the chevy put so many limits on the pcm and touque managemnt and thats why they werent that fast..Regardless of the why's the reality is that most people ran low 13'ss in the LS2 vettes. It was really a slap in the face.
The LS3 on the other hand seems to dyno a bonafied 370 rwhp and it actually runs the numbers that its rwhp suggest it should. Quite a few stock LS3's have gotten into the 117-120 mph range. Thats what Im talking about and thats what I expected when the LS2's came out. After all more than a few stock C5's got into the 110-112 mph range.
If you love your car then you love it. But as a vette owner my self who was thinking about getting a LS2 till I saw they were slow and who was defiently getting a c6Z06 (till the dealers tried to charge me 20k over sticker)
The LS3 is simply amazeing for the money and finally gives the base vette respect again. No one feared the base c5 in the 2000's..It was the C5Z06 that they feared. And likewise no one feared the C6 LS2...Again it was in the middle of the base c5 and C5Z06. But with the LS3 I heard stock GTR guys get a lil worried and 03 cobra oners think of modding. It demands respect.
Even for me if my viper was stock and they said..Hey so and so in a full bolt on LS2 wants to race you...Quick ricer math in my head would say..HMMMM..3290 pounds and 385 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp...naaaaaa..What ever hardly worth raceing..
Same senario but so in so in a full bolt on LS3 wants to race you...Ricer math computes...3290 pounds and 420 rwhp vs my 3380 pounds and 445 rwhp..damn he could get me this is gonna be good..
Thats just the reality...If I was in a base C6 it would be an LS3 no questions asked..LS3 or C5Z06 for me all day over the LS2
12-20-2010, 10:08 PM
#30
And a lowly little LS1 f-bomb walking the **** by a Viper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwjTjviRgF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwjTjviRgF4
12-20-2010, 11:03 PM
#31
Damn Cybergrey! where did you and your 3rd gen come from? that thing is cleeeean! got numbers?
Yeah i agree. member cars only in these threads. keeps it from being a 3 hour youtube session .
i still dont know how i stay on for so long...i say to myself "ok this vid and then the next one and going to bed." then something cool pops up in the sidebar. IM LOSING SLEEP!!! lol
Yeah i agree. member cars only in these threads. keeps it from being a 3 hour youtube session .
i still dont know how i stay on for so long...i say to myself "ok this vid and then the next one and going to bed." then something cool pops up in the sidebar. IM LOSING SLEEP!!!
lolTo add to the thread, best recorded times for vettes:
C5 Stock LS1(Street Tire)
12.79x @ 109.80 - boostyfox
Showroom Stock LS2 (2005 -2007)
12.21 @ 115.45 - LS1LT1 - 06 A6 - (1282)
Showroom Stock LS3 (2008 - ????)
11.71 @ 119.94 - AndrewZPSU - 08 M6 - (2590)
Nice progression of performance if you ask me? LS2 definitely did well.
12-21-2010, 12:30 AM
#32
Launching!
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belieave it or not i was at one time a vette fanatic and im actually the creater of the stock c5 list on the corvete forum...
So with 100% certanty I can say a stock c5 went 12.6 at 112 mph..Actually two differant ones by two differant drivers in two differant parts of the country went that fast...
Unfortunetly as their were no acoun table witnesses I was unable to add them to the list....
heres the list I created on corvette forum back in 2005..It took me many MONTHS to locate these people and get proof via witness or timeslip
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: Hawaii !bone Stock C5 1/4 Mile List!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100 % BONE STOCK LIST DOWN TO THE TIRES AND PAPER AIR FILTER *CREATED BY LARON*
A4 2.73'S COUPE AND CONVERTABLE
SLOWVETTE...A4...2.73...13.1...106
TURBOBOB87...A4...2.73...13.1...105
EVILC5...A4...2.73...13.2...106
DEFORMULA...A4...2.73...13.2...106
S383S...A4...2.73...13.2...105
LS6RAT...A4...2.73...13.3...105
ELECTRONC5...A4...2.73...13.4...105
LARON...A4...2.73...13.5...104ME
NAT04Z06'SDAD...A4...2.73...13.5...104
KUNGFURUCK...A4...2.73...13.5...104
PONCHORELLO...A4...2.73...13.5...103
OKLAHOMA...A4...2.73...13.5...103
CLIPENSKI...A4...2.73...13.7...105
BLACKVETTESRBEST...A4...2.73...13.7...10 2
RAYSVETTE...A4...2.73...13.9...???
XCLR8N...A4...2.73...14.0...103
A4 3.15'S COUPE AND CONVERTABLE
JIMK98...A4...3.15...12.9...107
RYANBUSH#1...A4...3.15...13.0...105
ROBO01C5...A4...3.15...13.1...107
STANGER383...A4...3.15...13.1...106
RYANBUSH#2...A4...3.15...13.3...108
MIKEV...A4...3.15...13.3...107
MACOMAAN...A4...3.15...13.3...105
JAYGOOD...A4...315...13.3...105
DAVID426...A4...3.15...13.3...105
WT99C5...A4...3.15...13.3...104
BEAST...A4...3.15...13.3...103
IMPORTEATER...A4...3.15...13.4...105
CHAASE...A4...3.15...13.4...103
LSK...A4...3.15...13.6...104
GLOCK...A4...3.15...13.6...103
C5THRILER...A4...3.15...13.7...105
SHURITTE44...A4...3.15...13.7...103
ARBUCK...A4...3.15...13.7...101
MN6 3.42'S COUPE, CONVERTABLE AND F.R.C. (NO Z06'S)
TORCHDU...MN6...12.8...110
02BLACKZ...MN6...12.9...111
CAJUNDUDE...MN6...12.9...110
MGORMAN...MN6...13.0...111
AQUAMAN...MN6...13.0...109
JOHNSHIELS...MN6...13.0...108
GSXRJACK...MN6...13.0...107
GBJORK50...MN6...13.1...110
LS1VETTE97...MN6...13.2...108
MARKVIII...MN6...13.2...107
1BADPURPLELTI...MN6...13.3...107
LASTMANGO...MN6...13.3...106
502CI...MN6...13.3...106
CARSRFUN DAD...MN6...13.3...105
CSCOKD...MN6...13.4...107
FRCBOBBY...MN6...13.4...105
NAV108...MN6...13.5...109
LVVETTE...MN6...14.1...101
KENDO347...MN6...14.1...100
So with 100% certanty I can say a stock c5 went 12.6 at 112 mph..Actually two differant ones by two differant drivers in two differant parts of the country went that fast...
Unfortunetly as their were no acoun table witnesses I was unable to add them to the list....
heres the list I created on corvette forum back in 2005..It took me many MONTHS to locate these people and get proof via witness or timeslip
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: Hawaii !bone Stock C5 1/4 Mile List!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100 % BONE STOCK LIST DOWN TO THE TIRES AND PAPER AIR FILTER *CREATED BY LARON*
A4 2.73'S COUPE AND CONVERTABLE
SLOWVETTE...A4...2.73...13.1...106
TURBOBOB87...A4...2.73...13.1...105
EVILC5...A4...2.73...13.2...106
DEFORMULA...A4...2.73...13.2...106
S383S...A4...2.73...13.2...105
LS6RAT...A4...2.73...13.3...105
ELECTRONC5...A4...2.73...13.4...105
LARON...A4...2.73...13.5...104ME
NAT04Z06'SDAD...A4...2.73...13.5...104
KUNGFURUCK...A4...2.73...13.5...104
PONCHORELLO...A4...2.73...13.5...103
OKLAHOMA...A4...2.73...13.5...103
CLIPENSKI...A4...2.73...13.7...105
BLACKVETTESRBEST...A4...2.73...13.7...10 2
RAYSVETTE...A4...2.73...13.9...???
XCLR8N...A4...2.73...14.0...103
A4 3.15'S COUPE AND CONVERTABLE
JIMK98...A4...3.15...12.9...107
RYANBUSH#1...A4...3.15...13.0...105
ROBO01C5...A4...3.15...13.1...107
STANGER383...A4...3.15...13.1...106
RYANBUSH#2...A4...3.15...13.3...108
MIKEV...A4...3.15...13.3...107
MACOMAAN...A4...3.15...13.3...105
JAYGOOD...A4...315...13.3...105
DAVID426...A4...3.15...13.3...105
WT99C5...A4...3.15...13.3...104
BEAST...A4...3.15...13.3...103
IMPORTEATER...A4...3.15...13.4...105
CHAASE...A4...3.15...13.4...103
LSK...A4...3.15...13.6...104
GLOCK...A4...3.15...13.6...103
C5THRILER...A4...3.15...13.7...105
SHURITTE44...A4...3.15...13.7...103
ARBUCK...A4...3.15...13.7...101
MN6 3.42'S COUPE, CONVERTABLE AND F.R.C. (NO Z06'S)
TORCHDU...MN6...12.8...110
02BLACKZ...MN6...12.9...111
CAJUNDUDE...MN6...12.9...110
MGORMAN...MN6...13.0...111
AQUAMAN...MN6...13.0...109
JOHNSHIELS...MN6...13.0...108
GSXRJACK...MN6...13.0...107
GBJORK50...MN6...13.1...110
LS1VETTE97...MN6...13.2...108
MARKVIII...MN6...13.2...107
1BADPURPLELTI...MN6...13.3...107
LASTMANGO...MN6...13.3...106
502CI...MN6...13.3...106
CARSRFUN DAD...MN6...13.3...105
CSCOKD...MN6...13.4...107
FRCBOBBY...MN6...13.4...105
NAV108...MN6...13.5...109
LVVETTE...MN6...14.1...101
KENDO347...MN6...14.1...100
Last edited by Killemall; 12-21-2010 at 12:55 AM.
12-21-2010, 12:59 AM
#33
Launching!
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belieave it or not i was at one time a vette fanatic and im actually the creater of the stock c5 list on the corvete forum...
So with 100% certanty I can say a stock c5 went 12.5 at 112 mph..Actually two differant ones by two differant drivers in two differant parts of the country went that fast
So with 100% certanty I can say a stock c5 went 12.5 at 112 mph..Actually two differant ones by two differant drivers in two differant parts of the country went that fast
12-21-2010, 12:59 AM
#34
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Like i said. i was well aware of what stock c5's could do and had big hopes of the LS2's being right there with the C5Z06..What we got however after a 7 year wait was a car that barely ran 12's...I started a C6 LS2 list..but after the first 30 entries all being 13.0-13.2 at 106-110 mph I just couldnt take the disapointment and gave up..Hell..even 111 mph trapps seemed great for th 2005's!
12-21-2010, 01:02 AM
#35
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I lurk here and there, this forum gives me my fix of street racing w/o having to risk getting in trouble lol. My mullet mobile puts down about 400rwhp and 400rwtq w/a mild LS1 setup.
To add to the thread, best recorded times for vettes:
C5 Stock LS1(Street Tire)
12.79x @ 109.80 - boostyfox
Showroom Stock LS2 (2005 -2007)
12.21 @ 115.45 - LS1LT1 - 06 A6 - (1282)
Showroom Stock LS3 (2008 - ????)
11.71 @ 119.94 - AndrewZPSU - 08 M6 - (2590)
Nice progression of performance if you ask me? LS2 definitely did well.
To add to the thread, best recorded times for vettes:
C5 Stock LS1(Street Tire)
12.79x @ 109.80 - boostyfox
Showroom Stock LS2 (2005 -2007)
12.21 @ 115.45 - LS1LT1 - 06 A6 - (1282)
Showroom Stock LS3 (2008 - ????)
11.71 @ 119.94 - AndrewZPSU - 08 M6 - (2590)
Nice progression of performance if you ask me? LS2 definitely did well.
12-21-2010, 01:06 AM
#37
Teching In
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Like i said. i was well aware of what stock c5's could do and had big hopes of the LS2's being right there with the C5Z06..What we got however after a 7 year wait was a car that barely ran 12's...I started a C6 LS2 list..but after the first 30 entries all being 13.0-13.2 at 106-110 mph I just couldnt take the disapointment and gave up..Hell..even 111 mph trapps seemed great for th 2005's!
12-21-2010, 01:08 AM
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Now wait a second.... where did you hear these rumors? You really think Fiat's going to allow a 700+ horsepower AWD Viper to EVER come to production?
12-21-2010, 01:41 AM
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12-21-2010, 01:50 AM
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Those are the same reasons why I would consider purchasing one, except for the people looking at me, I could care less about that. But for performance, a convertible just doesn't make much sense if it's that important to him.