2007 GT500 640 hp vs 2013 ZL1 670hp
11-08-2013, 12:23 PM
#183
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I never ran my '98 down the 1/4 mile, but I did take it to the 1/8 the summer I got it. Best time that day was a 9.3 @ 76mph, but that was with a 2.2 60' 
. Anybody that's been to Kennedale can vouch that on Test and Tune days, the track is a bit greasy. Consequently, that's also the day I found out that my intake was cracked and leaking coolant.
. Anybody that's been to Kennedale can vouch that on Test and Tune days, the track is a bit greasy. Consequently, that's also the day I found out that my intake was cracked and leaking coolant.
11-08-2013, 12:42 PM
#184
I understand that is what you believe. I disagree.
If Ford built the Gt500 within the range of HP that the ZL1 operates, it would be a competitor of the ZL1. It does not, having chosen to build a car competitive with the ZR1, thus competes with the ZR1.
Yes, that is true. What is also true is that the ZR1; with which the GT500 is designed to compete, IS superior to both machines and is so in every conceivable way.
If Ford built the Gt500 within the range of HP that the ZL1 operates, it would be a competitor of the ZL1. It does not, having chosen to build a car competitive with the ZR1, thus competes with the ZR1.
Yes, that is true. What is also true is that the ZR1; with which the GT500 is designed to compete, IS superior to both machines and is so in every conceivable way.
11-08-2013, 12:59 PM
#185
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I understand that is what you believe. I disagree.
If Ford built the Gt500 within the range of HP that the ZL1 operates, it would be a competitor of the ZL1. It does not, having chosen to build a car competitive with the ZR1, thus competes with the ZR1.
Yes, that is true. What is also true is that the ZR1; with which the GT500 is designed to compete, IS superior to both machines and is so in every conceivable way.
If Ford built the Gt500 within the range of HP that the ZL1 operates, it would be a competitor of the ZL1. It does not, having chosen to build a car competitive with the ZR1, thus competes with the ZR1.
Yes, that is true. What is also true is that the ZR1; with which the GT500 is designed to compete, IS superior to both machines and is so in every conceivable way.
11-08-2013, 01:06 PM
#186
7 Second Club
He obviously knows better than GM, when it comes to which cars compete with each other.
11-08-2013, 01:57 PM
#188
Well, I am sure the General didn't appreciate that Ford built a car competitive with the ZR1. As having a Mustang with similar power would tend to undermine the Vette brand.
That doesn't change the fact that that is what Ford wanted to do and what, as a result, they did.
Reasonable people would agree that Chevy built the ZR1 to compete with the world class operators listed in their comparison chart. Those people would also agree that THOSE elite manufacturers were just as hesitant to admit Chevy was a competitor. Thus the GT500 is the best that Ford could do to get discussed within or within proximity of, elite production cars.
Now we all know that Ford isn't competitive in that lofty class. It simply bolted a large SC to a well rounded, but otherwise all BUT fully developed V8… But we can all rest assured that it was desperate to get the recognition as a player, if only at the edges, as it was quickly losing notice and doing so across the board.
I believe that this is obvious to all but the most profoundly absurd participants here.
What I mean by that is, in case you missed it, the GT500 being competitive with the ZR1 (in terms of power) is not a slam on the GT500. Just as the GT500, being what it is, is not a sign that Ford is 'faster than Chevy…' . Ford simply built a car which carried beyond the scope of the classification in which it was otherwise traditionally saddled (
Pun Intended… ) And I believe that the reasoning provided above and below shows that it NEEDED to do so and that DOING SO, was a great move.In truth, Ford had simply had its *** handed to it for TWO GENERATIONS and got desperate and, I might add, acted none too soon in getting something out there that showed that they are still in the game.
Ford had nothing which could expect to compete in terms of chassis technology, so the only thing they could do was bolt on as much Super-Charger as could be reasonably supported and call that, 'done'. I mean, basically, they modded up and set that out there as a production unit.
Let's be honest, even with The General having TAKEN THE CAMARO OUT OF THE LINE, for a decade, Ford had NOTHING that would compete with the fleet of Camaros remaining on the road. Ten year old cars were routinely blowing away the newest Ford Ponies, with lightly modded platforms… and Ford it seemed, was either helpless to do a dam' thing to stop it, or… (and I think this closer to the truth) didn't care… .
With the reintroduction of the 5th-Gen Camaro, the GT was nowhere NEAR competitive and sales of the 5th-Gen were castrating Ford's position. (And NONE of THAT even CONSIDERS what Cadillac was bringing and what the Vette Division was carving out, in terms of market share and Ford's liver… it was being left in The General's dust. (And this despite Chevy being a disaster of a company, saddled with trillions in debt due to STUPEFYINGLY FOOLISH LABOR CONTRACTS and the idiocy common to the socialists that had just bought'em out, which demanded that they produce "The People's CAR!" in terms of The Volt… which it has absolutely NO HOPE of satisfying anyone and truthfully, the company should have perished as a result. But we can discuss that some other time.)
Ford was, in fact, being emasculated by the General. It had grown lazy and, thankfully, SOMEONE over there FINALLY figured out that it had to do something about it.
So, in the highest tradition of American Manufacturing, they panic'd and overcompensated. Building the GT500 which pushes up against the ZR1, with none of the other benefits common to that class.
If you prefer, the GT500 is in a class by itself. It stands superior to its traditional competition… in terms of brute power, but is unable to deliver any of other benefits that come standard with that element of the Chevy lineup and for roughly the same coin.
The simple and most basic fact is, that in stock trim and in a straight line, the ZL1 is NOT Competitive with the GT500.
But despite all the crying and stomping of your feet… that's just the way it is.
The car's FAST! Great! But the ZL1 is an otherwise superior ride and, by no small margin.
With regard to your charts… SUPER! They show the traditional lineup and that's got NOTHING to do with what Ford was doing, what it built and that the GT500 was NOT built to compete with the ZL1, but to push against the ZR1 as a means to remain relevant.
The good news is, that it pulled it off and you guys that own those cars are enjoying the benefit of all the work produced by THE GENERAL, which inspired Ford to GET OFF THEIR DEAD ASSES AND BUILD SOMETHING THAT IS WORTH DISCUSSING!
So…
CONGRATS!
PS… https://ls1tech.com/forums/17800452-post1.html https://ls1tech.com/forums/17809803-post353.html
Last edited by OVA1; 11-08-2013 at 02:50 PM.
11-08-2013, 02:55 PM
#189
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^ butt hurt of the year award winner for 2013!!!
Give it a break dude!!
A stock 2013 GT500 is a direct competitor to the ZL1. GM failed with the ZL1 and IMO deserved to fail when they were chasing the 2008-2011 GT500 models with the design concept, frankly the ZL1 is over priced for its performance level. Even 10K in modifications voiding all warranty on it would get you to run door to door with a full warrantied stock 13 GT500....
As for the road course I'd rather take the 1LE with some bolts ons or a C6Z... I hope the general can redeem themselves with the Z28
Give it a break dude!!
A stock 2013 GT500 is a direct competitor to the ZL1. GM failed with the ZL1 and IMO deserved to fail when they were chasing the 2008-2011 GT500 models with the design concept, frankly the ZL1 is over priced for its performance level. Even 10K in modifications voiding all warranty on it would get you to run door to door with a full warrantied stock 13 GT500....
As for the road course I'd rather take the 1LE with some bolts ons or a C6Z... I hope the general can redeem themselves with the Z28
11-08-2013, 03:24 PM
#193
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Well, I am sure the General didn't appreciate that Ford built a car competitive with the ZR1. As having a Mustang with similar power would tend to undermine the Vette brand.
That doesn't change the fact that that is what Ford wanted to do and what, as a result, they did.
Reasonable people would agree that Chevy built the ZR1 to compete with the world class operators listed in their comparison chart. Those people would also agree that THOSE elite manufacturers were just as hesitant to admit Chevy was a competitor. Thus the GT500 is the best that Ford could do to get discussed within or within proximity of, elite production cars.
Now we all know that Ford isn't competitive in that lofty class. It simply bolted a large SC to a well rounded, but otherwise all BUT fully developed V8… But we can all rest assured that it was desperate to get the recognition as a player, if only at the edges, as it was quickly losing notice and doing so across the board.
I believe that this is obvious to all but the most profoundly absurd participants here.
What I mean by that is, in case you missed it, the GT500 being competitive with the ZR1 (in terms of power) is not a slam on the GT500. Just as the GT500, being what it is, is not a sign that Ford is 'faster than Chevy…' . Ford simply built a car which carried beyond the scope of the classification in which it was otherwise traditionally saddled (
Pun Intended… ) And I believe that the reasoning provided above and below shows that it NEEDED to do so and that DOING SO, was a great move.In truth, Ford had simply had its *** handed to it for TWO GENERATIONS and got desperate and, I might add, acted none too soon in getting something out there that showed that they are still in the game.
Ford had nothing which could expect to compete in terms of chassis technology, so the only thing they could do was bolt on as much Super-Charger as could be reasonably supported and call that, 'done'. I mean, basically, they modded up and set that out there as a production unit.
Let's be honest, even with The General having TAKEN THE CAMARO OUT OF THE LINE, for a decade, Ford had NOTHING that would compete with the fleet of Camaros remaining on the road. Ten year old cars were routinely blowing away the newest Ford Ponies, with lightly modded platforms… and Ford it seemed, was either helpless to do a dam' thing to stop it, or… (and I think this closer to the truth) didn't care… .
With the reintroduction of the 5th-Gen Camaro, the GT was nowhere NEAR competitive and sales of the 5th-Gen were castrating Ford's position. (And NONE of THAT even CONSIDERS what Cadillac was bringing and what the Vette Division was carving out, in terms of market share and Ford's liver… it was being left in The General's dust. (And this despite Chevy being a disaster of a company, saddled with trillions in debt due to STUPEFYINGLY FOOLISH LABOR CONTRACTS and the idiocy common to the socialists that had just bought'em out, which demanded that they produce "The People's CAR!" in terms of The Volt… which it has absolutely NO HOPE of satisfying anyone and truthfully, the company should have perished as a result. But we can discuss that some other time.)
Ford was, in fact, being emasculated by the General. It had grown lazy and, thankfully, SOMEONE over there FINALLY figured out that it had to do something about it.
So, in the highest tradition of American Manufacturing, they panic'd and overcompensated. Building the GT500 which pushes up against the ZR1, with none of the other benefits common to that class.
If you prefer, the GT500 is in a class by itself. It stands superior to its traditional competition… in terms of brute power, but is unable to deliver any of other benefits that come standard with that element of the Chevy lineup and for roughly the same coin.
The simple and most basic fact is, that in stock trim and in a straight line, the ZL1 is NOT Competitive with the GT500.
But despite all the crying and stomping of your feet… that's just the way it is.
The car's FAST! Great! But the ZL1 is an otherwise superior ride and, by no small margin.
With regard to your charts… SUPER! They show the traditional lineup and that's got NOTHING to do with what Ford was doing, what it built and that the GT500 was NOT built to compete with the ZL1, but to push against the ZR1 as a means to remain relevant.
The good news is, that it pulled it off and you guys that own those cars are enjoying the benefit of all the work produced by THE GENERAL, which inspired Ford to GET OFF THEIR DEAD ASSES AND BUILD SOMETHING THAT IS WORTH DISCUSSING!
So…
CONGRATS!
PS… https://ls1tech.com/forums/17800452-post1.html https://ls1tech.com/forums/17809803-post353.html
11-08-2013, 03:35 PM
#194
^ butt hurt of the year award winner for 2013!!!
Give it a break dude!!
A stock 2013 GT500 is a direct competitor to the ZL1. GM failed with the ZL1 and IMO deserved to fail when they were chasing the 2008-2011 GT500 models with the design concept, frankly the ZL1 is over priced for its performance level. Even 10K in modifications voiding all warranty on it would get you to run door to door with a full warrantied stock 13 GT500....
As for the road course I'd rather take the 1LE with some bolts ons or a C6Z... I hope the general can redeem themselves with the Z28
Give it a break dude!!
A stock 2013 GT500 is a direct competitor to the ZL1. GM failed with the ZL1 and IMO deserved to fail when they were chasing the 2008-2011 GT500 models with the design concept, frankly the ZL1 is over priced for its performance level. Even 10K in modifications voiding all warranty on it would get you to run door to door with a full warrantied stock 13 GT500....
As for the road course I'd rather take the 1LE with some bolts ons or a C6Z... I hope the general can redeem themselves with the Z28
Yeah. GM failed to bolt on a larger blower. OOPS! If they'd had only HAD a larger blower to use…
Oh well… Ford is faster, because they have ONE car that is faster than ONE Chevy.
Well… except for the guys that own one of those Chevy's and bolted on a larger blower. Who now enjoy more power AND the added benefit of a vastly superior chassis, suspension, drivetrain… and substantially more HP headroom than the Ford.
Except for those guys, Ford's Faster.
OH! And the rest of the F-body world with more power from fairly basic Modifications.
Except for THOSE GUYS! Ford's faster…
And the Stock ZR1 drivers… and the Modded C7 LT1 Base vette Drivers…
Except for THOSE guys, Ford's faster.
But there's NO taken away that the Gt500 built stock with a hundred more horse power… is faster than the stock Zl1.
So, ya got THAT goin' for ya. Which has GOTTA be nice.
Last edited by OVA1; 11-08-2013 at 03:46 PM.
11-08-2013, 04:22 PM
#195
7 Second Club
11-08-2013, 04:41 PM
#198
7 Second Club
11-08-2013, 06:21 PM
#199
If the ZL1 was not competition for the new GT500 then why did the main honcho for the ZL1 make some butt heart comments when the power figures were released for the new in the future 2013 GT500 shortly after the ZL1 debuted???
ZL1 is nice. For a straight line guy or one who wants horspower the GT500 wins BIG time. I still think the Camaro is a better built car though. Talk to some people that have owned them(2013 and up GT500)....
ZL1 is nice. For a straight line guy or one who wants horspower the GT500 wins BIG time. I still think the Camaro is a better built car though. Talk to some people that have owned them(2013 and up GT500)....
