bolt on ls1 vs bolt on 5.0
03-30-2014, 07:48 AM
#64
The 5L DOMINATES the LS1, period.
All this nonsense talk is one thing, but the FACT of the matter is quite simple. The LS1 has been taken to its limit and we know that it does not deal well when the really high power levels show up.
Yeah, people argue this and that and I've said for YEARS that the LS1 is a great engine. That does NOT change the facts. You've never heard of a legitimate 2,000hp real LS1 and you NEVER WILL! Have other LS or LQ engines done it? Yup!
The reality is, the block cannot withstand the pressures required to make that much power. This is only part of why GM moved forward with several better examples of this basic design.
I'm not bashing the LS1 at all... Simple fact is, the 5L is far and away a better engine. Most haters here know it and immediately suggest we compared it to something INSIDE a Corvette, but not an LS1 inside a Corvette...Instead, something much newer. Nobody with an LS3 is swapping in an LS1 and there IS a reason... That's only one of several LS engines we know are better than the LS1 and like all of those, the Coyote is also better.
You're considering 2 cars, the 4th gen F-body vs Mustang and that's fine, but in the end, the LS1 cars lose. You can say, well, with exhaust and a set of slicks I'm right back in the game, but as it turns out, they too, can add exhaust and slicks. Then we'll move into other mods, all of which they can also do and ultimately, power adders are included and at that point, the LS1 is done, no doubt.
All this nonsense talk is one thing, but the FACT of the matter is quite simple. The LS1 has been taken to its limit and we know that it does not deal well when the really high power levels show up.
Yeah, people argue this and that and I've said for YEARS that the LS1 is a great engine. That does NOT change the facts. You've never heard of a legitimate 2,000hp real LS1 and you NEVER WILL! Have other LS or LQ engines done it? Yup!
The reality is, the block cannot withstand the pressures required to make that much power. This is only part of why GM moved forward with several better examples of this basic design.
I'm not bashing the LS1 at all... Simple fact is, the 5L is far and away a better engine. Most haters here know it and immediately suggest we compared it to something INSIDE a Corvette, but not an LS1 inside a Corvette...Instead, something much newer. Nobody with an LS3 is swapping in an LS1 and there IS a reason... That's only one of several LS engines we know are better than the LS1 and like all of those, the Coyote is also better.
You're considering 2 cars, the 4th gen F-body vs Mustang and that's fine, but in the end, the LS1 cars lose. You can say, well, with exhaust and a set of slicks I'm right back in the game, but as it turns out, they too, can add exhaust and slicks. Then we'll move into other mods, all of which they can also do and ultimately, power adders are included and at that point, the LS1 is done, no doubt.
03-30-2014, 07:53 AM
#65
Engine to engine... Agree. You have to be a complete ******* moron to believe every 5.0 can beat every ls1 though. I've seen far too many 5.0s running low 13s in great air on the same track I run at. They don't all click off 12 second passes with ease.... and that leaves just a small amount of overlap between the two cars.
03-30-2014, 08:20 AM
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03-30-2014, 08:20 AM
#67
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03-30-2014, 08:22 AM
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03-30-2014, 08:51 AM
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/street-ra...-who-wins.html
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03-30-2014, 08:53 AM
#70
The 5.bro in the video WAS an ''easy matic''. Maybe you should pull your dense head out of your dick scarred anus and read before you post.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/street-ra...-who-wins.html
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/street-ra...-who-wins.html
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03-30-2014, 09:06 AM
#72
03-30-2014, 09:22 AM
#73
Teching In
I thought we already established from a previous thread that the Camaro in the vid also has an aftermarket converter. Am I mistaken? It seems that this mod always gets missed in the list of "things" done. With that one modification alone, that will give a big advantage to the Camaro at the track coming off the line...(as shown in the vid)
I am not pulling for the 5.0 since I like both cars, but for the A4 Camaro to be running 12.4 at 113mpg with basic bolt-ons, there is more going on with that car IMO. If you want to use the words such as "comparable modifications" when talking about these two cars, then have the 5.Bro install a converter also and run them again.
If I am wrong about any of my assumptions (converter), than I apologize.
I am not pulling for the 5.0 since I like both cars, but for the A4 Camaro to be running 12.4 at 113mpg with basic bolt-ons, there is more going on with that car IMO. If you want to use the words such as "comparable modifications" when talking about these two cars, then have the 5.Bro install a converter also and run them again.
If I am wrong about any of my assumptions (converter), than I apologize.
Last edited by MACHXLR8; 03-30-2014 at 09:39 AM.
03-30-2014, 09:28 AM
#74
If everyone viewed things the way you do, ( this is not a knock on you, nor an attack...I actually agree with you quite often) then all of the LS fanbois would have to concede that the very same is true in regards to ls1 vs 3v, Mach1, and new edge N/A Cobros. To be honest and fair, the spread is far more in favor of the three that I previously mentioned than it is for the LS1 vs 5.0 debate, but still, the point has been made...
03-30-2014, 09:30 AM
#75
That's fair, I don't tend to agree with the majority of the fanbois on either end. I've seen ls1 cars struggle to run high 13s... Normally I tend lean towards a 'strong running car' and assume equal track conditions, driver, etc... In that situation the 5.0 wins every single time. I know some people can't handle that but it is true. Reality is not every car is a 'strong car' (they don't all Dyno the same and they certainly don't all weight the same) so I just try to be fair.
03-30-2014, 09:37 AM
#76
Teching In
That's fair, I don't tend to agree with the majority of the fanbois on either end. I've seen ls1 cars struggle to run high 13s... Normally I tend lean towards a 'strong running car' and assume equal track conditions, driver, etc... In that situation the 5.0 wins every single time. I know some people can't handle that but it is true. Reality is not every car is a 'strong car' (they don't all Dyno the same and they certainly don't all weight the same) so I just try to be fair.
03-30-2014, 09:42 AM
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03-30-2014, 10:07 AM
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03-30-2014, 10:10 AM
#79
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The 5L DOMINATES the LS1, period.
All this nonsense talk is one thing, but the FACT of the matter is quite simple. The LS1 has been taken to its limit and we know that it does not deal well when the really high power levels show up.
Yeah, people argue this and that and I've said for YEARS that the LS1 is a great engine. That does NOT change the facts. You've never heard of a legitimate 2,000hp real LS1 and you NEVER WILL! Have other LS or LQ engines done it? Yup!
The reality is, the block cannot withstand the pressures required to make that much power. This is only part of why GM moved forward with several better examples of this basic design.
I'm not bashing the LS1 at all... Simple fact is, the 5L is far and away a better engine. Most haters here know it and immediately suggest we compared it to something INSIDE a Corvette, but not an LS1 inside a Corvette...Instead, something much newer. Nobody with an LS3 is swapping in an LS1 and there IS a reason... That's only one of several LS engines we know are better than the LS1 and like all of those, the Coyote is also better.
You're considering 2 cars, the 4th gen F-body vs Mustang and that's fine, but in the end, the LS1 cars lose. You can say, well, with exhaust and a set of slicks I'm right back in the game, but as it turns out, they too, can add exhaust and slicks. Then we'll move into other mods, all of which they can also do and ultimately, power adders are included and at that point, the LS1 is done, no doubt.
All this nonsense talk is one thing, but the FACT of the matter is quite simple. The LS1 has been taken to its limit and we know that it does not deal well when the really high power levels show up.
Yeah, people argue this and that and I've said for YEARS that the LS1 is a great engine. That does NOT change the facts. You've never heard of a legitimate 2,000hp real LS1 and you NEVER WILL! Have other LS or LQ engines done it? Yup!
The reality is, the block cannot withstand the pressures required to make that much power. This is only part of why GM moved forward with several better examples of this basic design.
I'm not bashing the LS1 at all... Simple fact is, the 5L is far and away a better engine. Most haters here know it and immediately suggest we compared it to something INSIDE a Corvette, but not an LS1 inside a Corvette...Instead, something much newer. Nobody with an LS3 is swapping in an LS1 and there IS a reason... That's only one of several LS engines we know are better than the LS1 and like all of those, the Coyote is also better.
You're considering 2 cars, the 4th gen F-body vs Mustang and that's fine, but in the end, the LS1 cars lose. You can say, well, with exhaust and a set of slicks I'm right back in the game, but as it turns out, they too, can add exhaust and slicks. Then we'll move into other mods, all of which they can also do and ultimately, power adders are included and at that point, the LS1 is done, no doubt.
Not like it matters.......who the **** cares what about a 2000 hp engine? None of us are running one. Most of us are just ******* with bolt-ons or h/c or cam only ****.
To see the real potential of the engine it HAS to breath on it's own anyway. Anything other than that is just sizing the boostinator/ fuel system to the power you want. I give the guys that build it the credit for that.
03-30-2014, 10:18 AM
#80
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That's fair, I don't tend to agree with the majority of the fanbois on either end. I've seen ls1 cars struggle to run high 13s... Normally I tend lean towards a 'strong running car' and assume equal track conditions, driver, etc... In that situation the 5.0 wins every single time. I know some people can't handle that but it is true. Reality is not every car is a 'strong car' (they don't all Dyno the same and they certainly don't all weight the same) so I just try to be fair.
+1 Totally agree with this post. People always seem to assume that Car A will always beat Car B. There are just to many variables to make such a claim, such as amount and type of modifications, driver, traction, gear. The list goes on and on. It seems that these "blanket" statements always become the catalyst for nonsensical banter. Focusing on the one race between the two cars in question will probably lead to a better discussion. IMO
Assuming all are in proper running order with similar options. I would think 1% difference in hp/tq would be alot on identical cars.