nick's00bergundyT/A

25psi,
Are you freakin nuts??? I saw a civic with a fart can and guages run a 17.6 next to me at the track. Are you saying that this bolt on turbo whatever will take 5 whole seconds off a civic's track time? No freakin' way. Unless he's getting about 60 pounds of boost. <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" />

baddogz28

iTrader: (6)

I whipped a civic's *** @ rt. 66 rwy when my car was stock... I was kinda intimidated by this little oriental looking guy with his laptop out while we were in the staging lanes b/c I was worried that I'd be embarassed by him with all his fancy ****. Seeing him tuning the junker w/ the laptop and then walkin' him was priceless. Made my day. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

25psi

First of all do u know what kind of civic it was? Second their are civics that run in the 15's stock, the one you could have witnessed could have been an ex civic which is only 120hp songle cam vs 160 twin cam. So before you go bumpin your mouth about a 17 civic make sure u know the facts. Thirdly, a friend of a friend went to the track last week with a si civic with a Fmax turbo kit, exuast, intake, fuel computer, boost set at 11 psi went 13.0 at 109mph on drag radials. THis is with a stock head. You also have to remember these cars compression are high from the factory with I think a 11:1 compr. or 10:5:1 comp., so thats why they respond so well to turbocharging. If you don't believe what I say go to the website F-max.com and they will show u the dyno papers of stock civics and integras runnin 8-10psi pushing 260-280ho at tha wheels.

It'llrun

25psi
The only way a 10.5:1 or 11:1 engine "responds" to high boost, is "WITHA BANG!" (often followed by several clunking noises)

According to F-max, the B18 tests were done using Octane 104 for obvious reasons. They also said these stock engines made 8-9psi boost and no more was ever mentioned. The dyno charts for the B18 showed a maximum of just under 245hp, not 260 or more in a Civic. In fact, that was an Integra GSR(VTEC). it's hard to tell what they're saying about any work on the head. It says "stock intake and exhaust porting," leading me to think they might mean the exhaust side is ported, but the intake isn't. The D16 kits got more boost, but still less hp and only got 225BHP with additional parts (cam gears, etc.). They said to get more boost from the B18, you need to use a different head gasket. Maybe it's just me, but I think that would add to the cost of building this "monster"... hehehe

These turbo kits are plainly listed STARTING at $3799, not 3500 but, you claimed not only a $3500 bolt on kit, but 12's... I'm sorry but, no, I don't think a 225hp Civic is likely to run 12's under it's own power. And btw, an 03 Cobra STICKERS at under 34K, not 40 or more.

Then you go here... "a friend of a friend went to the track last week with a si civic with a Fmax turbo kit, exuast, intake, fuel computer, boost set at 11 psi went 13.0 at 109mph on drag radials." and you wonder why people question what's so "stock," much less "cheap" about this build? You said these cars ran 12.80's and even "low 12's," and then you say 13.0's with EXTRA mods to go along with this "bolt-on turbo"... Ya just don't get it, do ya?

MEANWHILE, back at the ranch... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> By the time you've gotten a "stock" B18 Civic to run 13.0's, you've already spend WELL OVER $6,000 in upgrades! And now you've got to worry about silly things like those stock CV axles snapping.. All that, and a stock Z/28 or Cobra, runs right past you and can still play the radio and run the A/C!...Not to mention the comfort level, which puts this in another world, competitively... V8's are still the choice for those who want power, cheaply or otherwise.

hondakiller

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 25psi:
<strong>Why not bother to fix up an import. I went from 99ss with heads and cam package intake, etc. and sold it for a 94 Supra. The reason why I sold it is becuase I got cracked on by 3 of these one night not to mention 1 mr2 turbo. I spoke with the Toyota club after racing and they told me each one of were running stock blocks. If u ask me it takes just as much to fix up a domestic than import. Look at some of the stroker kits available 422's out there for 15000 and up, guarnteed for 550-600 hp. We can make this with just basic bolt on. Don't get me wrong I still love the domestics but I also love the technology and brute strength of these motors. I would love to see a domestic put down 7-800 stock block flywheel hosrpower but I dought it will happen. So far I have spent less than 8000 on my car Greddy t88(3700) upgraded fuel(2000) clutch (675) few more other things but have nothing to do with hp.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">matt harlan puts 700 to the ground with a stock block twin turbo ls1 which is stock displacement bored .005 over (347 or so). there also a few stock block nitrous cars putting out over 700rwhp and 800rwtq. just in case you mean stock shortblock most normal heads and cam cars are only 100-150 shot of juice away from 650-700 flywheel horsepower or more. supras will make killer power but they also cant get out of the hole for anything. like was mentioned youre talking about a high compression n/a motor (ls1) to a stock forged internal low compression built for boost motor not to mention most supras cost more used than a brand new ls1 cost in 2002 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

also a stock civic with a turbo wont run 12's or even close to it. i watched a 2000 or so stock civic si with a turbo run 14.90's and ive run a different turbo civic si in my car from a 50 punch and we were basically even and i dont run low 12's. not to mention the fact that id tear him a new one from a dig.

and how did we get to single turbo supras from ricers? those are two different categories.

25psi

Your full of ****. There is no way a stock si civic with a bolt on turbo kit ran a 14.8 when they run mid 15's stock. I hate to talk to ignorant people who do not know what there ralking about. Before u come on the site make sure u do some research before you start throwing out numbers. Like I said before how in the hell r u going to take a stock b18c(TYPE R) motor which runs stock high 14's, and put a turbo kit on a run high 14's dip stick? NO way possible.

lbz34

iTrader: (3)

I have to get in on this one. I have an integra. It is turbo. Not a bolt on kit but a kit I piece together and sell (www.solid-technology.com). the engine is bone stock, 118,000 miles. car is a 94 acura integra gs-r. Car went 13.0 @ 112 in pehoenix with full interior,a/c everything on drag radials/1 legger. The car dynoed 250 @ the wheels up here in albuquerque (6000 ft.). stock ls1's dyno 230 or so up here. I have killed numerous ls1's. vettes, ss's, ws6's. supercharged mustangs up here put 425 or so to the wheels and usually pull about 1 car from a 30 roll through 120 mph. most b16/18's are 10:1.
I do have more than 3500 in my setup. more like 7500. including fuel and clutch. My integra is not fast but neither are ls1's up here. 02 A4 z28 up here with converter/lid/filter/ported maf/slicks runs 13.0 at 108. Facts are facts. Btt I hate "ricers" too.

Dont like mustang drivers either.

lol
Sean

lbz34

iTrader: (3)

Don't get me wrong. Im not saying that rice cars are faster than anything else. My 00 z28 is slow too. Come on now, at least know what you are talking about before you make yourself look stupid (a bit too late this time).

rice-a-roni is far better than uncle bens-trust me.

lol
Sean

25psi

Its about time somebody comes on here and knows what there talking about, someone with both cars.

It'llrun

25, he basically just discounted what you've told everyone.... Does COST ring any bells? Does the fact that his ET was slower than what you've claimed as "normal", even though CLOSE to 12's? And did you notice my earlier post, FROM information I found on the website you said to go to? He spent literally thousands more than you claimed 12's cost, and ran 13.0's.... Get with the program, pal.

<small>[ December 14, 2002, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: It'llrun ]</small>

hondakiller

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 25psi:
<strong>Your full of ****. There is no way a stock si civic with a bolt on turbo kit ran a 14.8 when they run mid 15's stock. I hate to talk to ignorant people who do not know what there ralking about. Before u come on the site make sure u do some research before you start throwing out numbers. Like I said before how in the hell r u going to take a stock b18c(TYPE R) motor which runs stock high 14's, and put a turbo kit on a run high 14's dip stick? NO way possible.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">lol why would i make it up? i didnt say that was the best that car could do nor did i say the driver was the best in the world. but i watched him run and it didnt look like he made any serious driving errors and the car went 14.90's and it didnt trap high either so no luck there. also last time i checked a b18c wasnt in a civic si <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

lbz34

iTrader: (3)

I would tend to disagree with 25 psi. Any honda with a bolt on kit will probably not do too well. I have seen /worked on too many bolt on kits (turbo/blower) for hondas, and have found the hardware is usually ok but the fuel management (fp riser,cartek, viortec, etc...) sucks!!!!!
My friens/co-worker has a 96 civic with a d16 sohc non-vtec and puts down much more power than a bolted on honda/acura. Not only is his kit custom but it is the cheapest effective/ghetto kit we could come up with. Few corners were not cut-ie. turbo manifold, bov, cooler, etc. The car put down decent numbers with a slipping clutch and a shitty stock pump. My (was) stock m6 loses about 2 cars to his 4 door civic from a 1st gear roll through 4th. He probably runs mid 100 traps up here. Not bad for a stock motored 4 door civic dx. I think he spent about $2000.00

You can see older dyno posts at my website. need to update when summer hits .

www.solid-technology.com

Sean

ls1cam

I use to have a b18c type r motor with a generation 3 drag turbo kit. At the stock wastegate setting which was 7 psi I dynoed at 235 at the wheel which is ruffly 260-270 crank hp. I went to the track the next day an ran a 13.2 106mph. This is with a 2.2 60ft on street tires. Two weeks later I bought some drag radials and a boost controller set to 12 psi ran a 12.4 at 115 mph. This is with a stock bottom end and head. On my way back from the track I ran into a Z06, I kept trying to get his attention by down shifting and hoppin at him. After about 4 tries I hear him down shift. So around 30 mph we take off instantly jumping out in front of him by a half a car. By 4th gear I had a car length on him. By 120 r so it was around 2 car lenght and pullin. After the race I roled down the window and we talked and he said he saw me run at the track but they weren't posting times so he didn't see what I ran. I told him I had a bolt on turbo kit set at 12psi with nothing else done. To make a long story short 2 months later my car was stolen and I didn't have insurance. So my friend who has a used dealership hooked me up with a 99 ls1 camaro that had been wrecked. So I didn't get this car becuase I didn't like the civic I purchased it was becuase I couldn't find another civic like the one I had. So it is possible to run 12's with a bolt on turbo kit $3400. And to answer your question is it faster than a stock ls1 the answer is hell yes. So I have love for both cars I have respect for the smaller displacements as well as the ls1's.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 25psi:
<strong>Why not bother to fix up an import. I went from 99ss with heads and cam package intake, etc. and sold it for a 94 Supra. So far I have spent less than 8000 on my car Greddy t88(3700) upgraded fuel(2000) clutch (675) few more other things but have nothing to do with hp.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Let's not forget to factor in the higher cost of the car itself in most cases as well. How much does a clean, used Supra TT cost? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Of course Civics are somewhat inexpensive to buy but it can still cost plenty (and possibly some serious gutting as well) to get one to just the straight line performance levels of a stock late model V8 F-body or Mustang, nevermind going past that point. But there are always isolated cases of course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

ls1cam

To answer the first question under 25,000. Secondly, a stock civic with a motor swap which runs somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 installed and a few bolt ons can run with a stock v8. Don't forget a stock s2k runs the same as a stock mustang v8. Also if someone wants to buy a 25,000 Supra so what u pay get what u pay for. I haven't seen to many mustang or ls1 videos of one beating a supra either with a blower, gas or what ever.

It'llrun

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ls1cam:
<strong>To answer the first question under 25,000. Secondly, a stock civic with a motor swap which runs somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 installed and a few bolt ons can run with a stock v8. Don't forget a stock s2k runs the same as a stock mustang v8. Also if someone wants to buy a 25,000 Supra so what u pay get what u pay for. I haven't seen to many mustang or ls1 videos of one beating a supra either with a blower, gas or what ever.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll agree with under 25K... but that's the low end fora really clean one. I can't even try to agree, however, with the idea that a Civic can suddenly keep up with an LS1 or GT just by installing a B18 and a few (keyword) boltons. Seriously, the engine just isn't that strong. Sure, a Civic weighs 2600 or 2700 lbs... but that doesn't account for much when you are still dealing with FWD and a serious lack of torque, and hp. I know that stock S2000's run lower 14's (with a professional driving) but, they're also RWD and much more powerful than a B18 in stock form. if you're going to question whether or not an LS1 or GT with a power adder or "whatever" can outrun a Supra turbo... Well, what can I say? That's just ludicrous. There's little need for videos when something is so blatently obvious. Further questions should be directed to the "6 second zone"... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Ever seen a Supra do Thaaaa... Me neither.. <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

ls1cam

All I have to say is go to bullishracing.com they toyota solora runnig a 2jz motor and is runng high 6's at close to 200mph. There is also a twin turbo viper that made over 800hp from hennessy that had his *** cracked on by a supra with an hks kit. There r also videos on racingflix with msutangs and camaros getting there *** whomped by a supra, I've have seen one video of a mustang beating a supra. your going to need much more than a blower to walk one trust me. For example, my friend has an mti stroker kit 422 on gas dynoed 650 got his *** handed to him by a supra, this is from a dead stop to 150 mph, he had at least 3 cars on him and pulling. Make no mistake I love the big motors, but you have to give credit where credit is do it is hard to beat one pushing 800 plus no matter what u have.

FYRARMS

Since we are talking about rice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> I just thought I would add that you CAN find clean Supras for a good price. My '94 had 68K miles, fully loaded, fresh paint, 18" wheels, Eibachs, downpipe, exhaust, upped boost, air intake, and mid-12 second timeslips in the glovebox. Picked it up for $20K even in August of 2001...

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ls1cam:
<strong>To answer the first question under 25,000. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just for comparison's sake, a '98 or '99 LS1 F-body goes for under $14k right now (and newer than 1994 obviously) leaving one with potentially over $10k in cash before the modding even begins.
A Civic can be had for even less of course if FWD <img border="0" alt="[gay]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_rainbow.gif" /> is really your thing.

FYRARMS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1LT1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ls1cam:
<strong>To answer the first question under 25,000. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just for comparison's sake, a '98 or '99 LS1 F-body goes for under $14k right now (and newer than 1994 obviously) leaving one with potentially over $10k in cash before the modding even begins.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You get what you pay for. Add the cost for a bulletproof transmission, bulletproof rearend, and a 4-piston brake kit. Now the used LS1 will be on even ground with the stock Supra...costwise, too. Also, stock Supra shortblocks have held over 900rwhp. You'll save a ton of money in the engine department.